protecting your passport and certificate

sarrebal said:
I understand why Texas is asking that (we are all good immigrants but there they have a lot of bad ones and sometimes people's ignorance produces bad reactions).
But they need to understand that they cannot discriminate between US citizen at birth and naturalized citizens, they're all US citizens at the same level (I think it's the 14th amendment).
At that point, just take off US passport from the list and put US birth certificate OR certificate of naturalization, that's it.
If I want to make a fake passport, I could make one with any US city as place of birth, as someone said already.
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You are right that it is unconstitutional to create two classes of citizen. However, a much more practical issue is that there is a whole class of US citizen - those who naturalized as minors through their parent's naturalization - that do not necessarily have a certificate of naturalization and certainly don't have a US birth certificate. Therefore, the DPS is currently expecting these people to spend large amounts of money to get a certificate of naturalization before getting a driver's license. Given the large, low-income, Hispanic population in Texas, most of these people are just going to drive without a license instead of spend the extra money.
 
dms1 said:
You are right that it is unconstitutional to create two classes of citizen. However, a much more practical issue is that there is a whole class of US citizen - those who naturalized as minors through their parent's naturalization - that do not necessarily have a certificate of naturalization and certainly don't have a US birth certificate. Therefore, the DPS is currently expecting these people to spend large amounts of money to get a certificate of naturalization before getting a driver's license. Given the large, low-income, Hispanic population in Texas, most of these people are just going to drive without a license instead of spend the extra money.
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They can bring their parents' certificate of naturalization in that case? Too complicated?
To me, they should just leave it as it is, but probably they don't have any mean to check whether a US passport is valid or not.
I'm all for cracking down on illegal immigration, but it shouldn't be done at legal immigrants' (or in this case naturalized citizens) expense.
 
sarrebal said:
I understand why Texas is asking that (we are all good immigrants but there they have a lot of bad ones and sometimes people's ignorance produces bad reactions).
But they need to understand that they cannot discriminate between US citizen at birth and naturalized citizens, they're all US citizens at the same level (I think it's the 14th amendment).
At that point, just take off US passport from the list and put US birth certificate OR certificate of naturalization, that's it.
If I want to make a fake passport, I could make one with any US city as place of birth, as someone said already.
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Sa,

You are correct on the 14th amendment. However, more than anything which TX DMV is in violation of is the Equal Protection Clause under the 14th amendment. The Equal Protection Clause states that "no state shall ... deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal protection of the laws". In this case, native born citizens are given high regard as opposed to foreign born citizens who are required to clear a high bar to prove who they are? :rolleyes:
Somone should advise TX DMV lawyers that since they are a government entity, not a private party.

I am yet to meet a bad immigrant...anyone knows where I can meet one? :eek: Hmmmmmmmmm... I am going home, Boston Legal night... I have an erection..Danny Crane.
 
Al Southner said:
I am yet to meet a bad immigrant...anyone knows where I can meet one? :eek:
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Luckily, I have too (and bad americans, which there are plenty of).
But if you read the news, especially from down there, it's easy to see how people get fed up.
Many illegals are involved in criminal activities and obviously Texas has many illegals, merely for geographic reasons. Sure, many americans are criminals as well, but you can't deport them (just the UK did it and look at the beautiful country they created, down under).
Ignorant people often have extreme reactions and who pays for that? Everybody.
I keep hearing how bad these measures are but I never hear an alternative solution (free open borders doesn't count). A wall is a fascist measure? Ok, what are they proposing?
 
dms1 said:
It is not the actual law that is to blame, but rather DPS' interpretation of it, since they are the ones that decided that a US passport is not automatically proof of citizenship. Having said that though, our illustrious governor Rick Perry (should have a 'P' before his first name :rolleyes:) has publicly stated his support for the policy. However, I suspect that is because he doesn't actually have the mental capacity to understand trivial things such as law and the US constitution.
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I find it odd that Texas thinks they're the ones deciding just what a US passport proves. As far as I know, federal law defines what a US passport is and what it proves and Texas is just being Texas here.
 
Mr Vertigo said:
I find it odd that Texas thinks they're the ones deciding just what a US passport proves. As far as I know, federal law defines what a US passport is and what it proves and Texas is just being Texas here.
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It's not even Texas, as in the state legislature, but rather the DPS - an administrative agency. This is the basis of the pending law suits, namely that the DPS is acting outside its authority in the interpretation of the state law. Unfortunately, governor (P)Rick Perry, who is as slimy as governors come, is supporting the DPS' stance.
 
dms1 said:
It's not even Texas, as in the state legislature, but rather the DPS - an administrative agency. This is the basis of the pending law suits, namely that the DPS is acting outside its authority in the interpretation of the state law. Unfortunately, governor (P)Rick Perry, who is as slimy as governors come, is supporting the DPS' stance.
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That's what I meant; a governor supporting a practice that openly challenges the federal government and its laws. Mind boggling, really.
 
Mr Vertigo said:
That's what I meant; a governor supporting a practice that openly challenges the federal government and its laws. Mind boggling, really.
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Considering that we're talking about Texas, I'm not surprised at all. Didn't they recently have a Senatorial candidate who advocated secession from the Union? :rolleyes:

Arrogance at its finest...
 
Mr Vertigo said:
No, those are US Nationals, not people of U.S. Nationality. People of U.S. Nationality are U.S. Citizens only.
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Correct me if wrong, what is the "Nationality" of those US Nationals who are not Citizens ? I am guessing its "U.S.A".

I double checked my recent passport and on where does it say I am Citizen of U.S . Can anyone provide specific law reference where it says passport is certain proof of U.S Citizenship ?
 
Vorpal said:
Considering that we're talking about Texas, I'm not surprised at all. Didn't they recently have a Senatorial candidate who advocated secession from the Union? :rolleyes:

Arrogance at its finest...
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It wasn't a Senatorial candidate - it was the one and same Governor (P)Rick Perry - speaking at a rally in support of abolishing federal taxation and the IRS.

He is the same guy that earlier this year refused federal grant money to pay unemployment benefit, saying something along the lines that Texan's are real men who will go and find a job rather than take handouts. I'm sure many people who had recently lost their jobs and were struggling to live appreciated this sentiment.
 
absrao said:
Correct me if wrong, what is the "Nationality" of those US Nationals who are not Citizens ? I am guessing its "U.S.A".

I double checked my recent passport and on where does it say I am Citizen of U.S . Can anyone provide specific law reference where it says passport is certain proof of U.S Citizenship ?
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I've tried to search Google for such a law, but the search turns up countless results. The closest I could come up with is the proof of citizenship section of the homepage for U.S. Consulate in Bermuda. The first thing listed is a full validity U.S. Passport. Since consulates are established under direct authority of the Federal government, this should serve as sufficient legal proof.

http://hamilton.usconsulate.gov/proof_of_u.s._citizenship
 
dms1 said:
It wasn't a Senatorial candidate - it was the one and same Governor (P)Rick Perry - speaking at a rally in support of abolishing federal taxation and the IRS.

He is the same guy that earlier this year refused federal grant money to pay unemployment benefit, saying something along the lines that Texan's are real men who will go and find a job rather than take handouts. I'm sure many people who had recently lost their jobs and were struggling to live appreciated this sentiment.
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He might be a prick on immigration but he's right on that.
 
dms1 said:
It wasn't a Senatorial candidate - it was the one and same Governor (P)Rick Perry - speaking at a rally in support of abolishing federal taxation and the IRS.

He is the same guy that earlier this year refused federal grant money to pay unemployment benefit, saying something along the lines that Texan's are real men who will go and find a job rather than take handouts. I'm sure many people who had recently lost their jobs and were struggling to live appreciated this sentiment.
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I stand corrected. In the typical Bible Belt stereotype, I guess this fine, upstanding gentleman's parents were siblings.
 
Vorpal said:
I stand corrected. In the typical Bible Belt stereotype, I guess this fine, upstanding gentleman's parents were siblings.
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I don't like this.
I'm a secular, but I respect somebody who's religious.
Plus, he has been elected in Texas.
You might not like Texas (I don't either) but if you look at the State budget and unemployment, you will find much better numbers than the ultra-liberal California. Like it or not, Texas is one of the richest State and definitely one the most fiscally healthy.
 
sarrebal said:
I don't like this.
I'm a secular, but I respect somebody who's religious.
Plus, he has been elected in Texas.
You might not like Texas (I don't either) but if you look at the State budget and unemployment, you will find much better numbers than the ultra-liberal California. Like it or not, Texas is one of the richest State and definitely one the most fiscally healthy.
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On the contrary, I like Texas (the state) quite a bit and have visited there on numerous occasions (my Puerto-Rican wife was actually asked if she spoke "Mexican" on one of those visits). What I don't like are racist, ultra-conservative politicians who never got over the fact that the South lost the Civil War. Some municipalities in the South still declare Jefferson Davis' birthday an official holiday. As far as my Bible Belt comment goes, its purpose was to describe a geographic area, not religious orientation. If you were offended by it, please accept my apologies and substitute the term in my original post with the word "Redneck".

Oh, one other thing. Of course Texas is one of the richest states! Most places with an abundant oil supply usually are.
 
absrao said:
I double checked my recent passport and on where does it say I am Citizen of U.S . Can anyone provide specific law reference where it says passport is certain proof of U.S Citizenship ?
Click to expand...


 
Vorpal said:
I've tried to search Google for such a law, but the search turns up countless results. The closest I could come up with is the proof of citizenship section of the homepage for U.S. Consulate in Bermuda. The first thing listed is a full validity U.S. Passport. Since consulates are established under direct authority of the Federal government, this should serve as sufficient legal proof.

http://hamilton.usconsulate.gov/proof_of_u.s._citizenship
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I theorize that consulates are under Department of State, and passport is a document issued by Dept Of State - hence follow same rules. I doubt other agencies and states are obligated unless there is such law.
 
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