how many people feel that naturalized citizens are second-class citizens?

how many people feel that naturalized citizens are second-class citizens?

  • YES

    Votes: 30 50.8%

  • NO

    Votes: 29 49.2%
  • Total voters
    59
N

NaturalizedBorg

New Member
how many people feel that naturalized citizens are second-class citizens?
legally, naturalized citizens have equal to natural-born citizens(with the
distinct exception of not being able to run for US president) . but on the
other hand...

Just a simple poll question. not trying to start a lengthy discussion debating
this issue... just wondering what people really feel in their hearts...

Thank you. :)
 
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And the other exception of being denaturalized for reasons far less severe than what it would take to denaturalize a born citizen.
 
Naturalized citizens can be de-naturalized. So really, a naturalization certificate is just a glorified Green Card.
 
They should naturalize people automatically according to length of stay in the U.S. no matter good moral character, no matter criminal record, as good as a birth certificate and of course, irrevocable ;)
 
Huracan said:
They should naturalize people automatically according to length of stay in the U.S. no matter good moral character, no matter criminal record, as good as a birth certificate and of course, irrevocable ;)
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So what you are saying is that if a person is good enough to stay in this country for ever if he/she chooses then he/she is also good enough to be naturalized... In other words, if the Government thinks a person is not worth naturalizing then they should cancel his/her GC and deport them, right? :cool:
 
I personally think it is a state of mind. I have aunts and uncles who have been living in the US since the 70s. Some of them have been US citizens for 3 decades. During family get togethers, at times, this topic has come up and my elder aunts/uncles hold the view that they will never be considered equal to natural born white Americans and thus they still consider Pakistan as their real country.

I have been living in the US since 2003 only. However my two cents are as follows:

Unless you accept America as your own home country, America will not accept you as her own son/daughter

My uncles and aunts disagree and cut down my argument on the basis of lack of maturity/experience :)
 
Muku said:
So what you are saying is that if a person is good enough to stay in this country for ever if he/she chooses then he/she is also good enough to be naturalized... In other words, if the Government thinks a person is not worth naturalizing then they should cancel his/her GC and deport them, right? :cool:
Click to expand...

I don't mean I have all the law figured out ;) Perhaps it would be that if you get in trouble with the law before naturalization you can be deported, depending on the seriousness of the crime. However, unless one has been accused or convicted of a crime that makes one ineligible for citizenship one would become a citizen automatically. Anyway, it was just a "fantasy" law. It's just that I think that's how immigration used to work in this country many years ago. If you could prove you had been in this country for a certain number of years you would become a citizen. I might be wrong on this.
 
Triple Citizen said:
I personally think it is a state of mind. I have aunts and uncles who have been living in the US since the 70s. Some of them have been US citizens for 3 decades. During family get togethers, at times, this topic has come up and my elder aunts/uncles hold the view that they will never be considered equal to natural born white Americans and thus they still consider Pakistan as their real country.

I have been living in the US since 2003 only. However my two cents are as follows:

Unless you accept America as your own home country, America will not accept you as her own son/daughter

My uncles and aunts disagree and cut down my argument on the basis of lack of maturity/experience :)
Click to expand...

I totally agree with you, you have to accept America as you home country , embrace the culture the language the way of life. If you don't do that you will never feel part of it. If you will feel as a second class citizen, then don't become citizen as simple as that.
 
hm. interesting topic. no, i don't feel as a second class anything. i have been for years here and i still don't really know what american exactly is. do i love this country as my own? i did that even long before naturalization process even began. i do however think those people who refuse to learn the language will feel as outcasts always. then again, how could you not? how can you get a good job, or be understood, or be able to express opinions or participate in a conversation unless you are able to communicate in english. i think that's when 'the second class thing' kicks in...
 
who cares about first class or second class.... we were all dying for this moment. I can't wait to become an American Citizen.
 
dani5050 said:
I totally agree with you, you have to accept America as you home country , embrace the culture the language the way of life. If you don't do that you will never feel part of it. If you will feel as a second class citizen, then don't become citizen as simple as that.
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I think you need to accept the fundamentals of America - democracy, Constitution and the way things work...and if they don't work, the process by which things are changed in this country (e.g., by voting out the bums, not by shooting them). I think those things make you an American. "Culture" and even to an extent language, on the other hand, does not. They're not static and I don't think anyone needs to sign up to a certain "way of life". Blue-collar whites do not equal America.

The most pathetic thing I saw growing up are immigrants from Asia who in an effort to be more "American" wore shoes inside and spoke to their children exclusively in English. The former is just gross and the latter is doing a huge disservice to their children by forcing them to be monolingual in a global society.

As immigrants, I think we can and should influence the prevailing culture to change to become more interesting, diverse, and frankly better. We're not second class citizens...in a country of immigrants, we're uber-Americans because we made a positive choice to be here. :D
 
sh1996 said:
I think you need to accept the fundamentals of America - democracy, Constitution and the way things work...and if they don't work, the process by which things are changed in this country (e.g., by voting out the bums, not by shooting them). I think those things make you an American. "Culture" and even to an extent language, on the other hand, does not. They're not static and I don't think anyone needs to sign up to a certain "way of life". Blue-collar whites do not equal America.

The most pathetic thing I saw growing up are immigrants from Asia who in an effort to be more "American" wore shoes inside and spoke to their children exclusively in English. The former is just gross and the latter is doing a huge disservice to their children by forcing them to be monolingual in a global society.

As immigrants, I think we can and should influence the prevailing culture to change to become more interesting, diverse, and frankly better. We're not second class citizens...in a country of immigrants, we're uber-Americans because we made a positive choice to be here. :D
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First of all wearing shoes "inside" might be gross in the culture you come from, not mine, second, speaking to you children only in your native language, if you don't know english will only create a barrier between your kids world at home and his world in school. That's just my opinion.
And the most pathetic thing I see everyday is going to a restaurant and people don't understand english or can't communicate with "Blue-collar whites" As you describe them. I think that's what you refer to " influence the prevailing culture to change to become more interesting, diverse"
 
I think to be an American means to believe in the US Constitution and for all that it stands.

America has always been a blend of different cultures and will perhaps always be.

Someone here mentioned that their Aunts/Uncles who have been here for over 30+ years don't feel like they are treated as First Class Citizens... I think racial/cultural/economic bias always exists - its human nature. Many folks here use color of skin or race as basis for bias... in other countries it is religion or economic-stature or sub-ethnic-group based bias, but many people refuse to acknowledge it cause they grew-up experiencing or practicing that bias and discrimination and now this is all different.

Basically its a different kind of bias... and it's all about acknowledging it, accepting it and making a better life for ourselves, our family and this country which we now want to adopt.

People who understand all of this and then opt to naturalize are IMHO more American then many of those who are born here but do nothing of significance for this country and for what it stands.
 
You just have to see how Japn-Americans were treated during the war. The answer is right there. So if the US ever decides to do a preemptive attack on any country we can probably expect to see another internment camp perhaps?

Also who is an ideal American? Is Ken Lay or George Bush considered an exceptional citizen? Both have ruined the lives of so many innocent USC.
 
aabbcc11 said:
You just have to see how Japn-Americans were treated during the war. The answer is right there. So if the US ever decides to do a preemptive attack on any country we can probably expect to see another internment camp perhaps?
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If your claim had any validity:

We would have interned Vietnamese in 1967.
We would have interned Cambodians in 1970.
We would have interned Grenadans in 1982.
We would have interned Libyans in 1986.
We would have interned Panamanians in 1989.
We would have interned Iraqis in 1990.
We would have interned Yugoslavians in 1999.
We would have interned Afghans in 2001.

But we didn't. Not in any case. Your claim has been demonstrated false, not once, but eight times. Is there any more nonsense you wish to share with us?
 
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