Traffic Tickets do not count!

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JoeF said:
If you lie on the N-400, e.g., by not listing speeding tickets, you commit perjury. That's a felony and makes you deportable.
And I just pointed out that your "example" was completely wrong, and ridiculous anyway.
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By not providng what is not asked for, is obviously not a perjury. If you are filling out an insurance application while ommitting that, that can be very much a perjury.
 
JoeF said:
So, you think a citation has different meanings??? Then you haven't understood what a citation is.
No. All citations have to be reported. Citations are issued by a law enforcement officer. See the question again: "Have you ever been arrested, cited or detained by any law enforcement officer (including USCIS or former INS and military officers) for any reason?"
Just read the question, and answer it truthfully. A citation is a citation is a citation. There are no citations "first class" or citations "second class"...
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What about a parking citation?
 
naturalizer123 said:
Usually what happens is the opposite. By saying yes on irrelevant stuff draws attention of USCIS to investigate further (see if you have paid the fine or not), which leads to nothing but delays. Why do you want to do that?
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Hm ... you say that the USCIS does not care about traffic citations but you afraid they would 'investigate further' if they hear about them. That may make sense in naturalizer's world but to me - and I have the impression to most others - that seems to be a quite inconsistent line of thought. Try again ...

Alex
 
JoeF said:
The question asks to list all citations. So, you are clearly wrong.
Again, the question: "Have you ever been arrested, cited or detained by any law enforcement officer (including USCIS or former INS and military officers) for any reason?"
It is crystal-clear that they ask for any[b/] citation. So, you are clearly and without any doubt wrong. They ask for all citations. It is right there in the question: "Have you ever been arrested, cited or detained by any law enforcement officer (including USCIS or former INS and military officers) for any reason?"
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Yeah, but I am pretty sure you do not list parking citation, do you? What is the difference between a parking and a traffice violation as per purpose of naturalization?
 
JoeF said:
If it says "citation"... Parking tickets are generally not citations, since they are not issued to a person.
Just look at the tickets you got. If they say "citation", they have to be reported. Period. No exceptions.
The question on the N-400 asks for all citations: "Have you ever been arrested, cited or detained by any law enforcement officer (including USCIS or former INS and military officers) for any reason?"
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Who said a citation must be issued to a person, it can be issued for an incidence, too. You are cited can mean that you are cited by anything.
 
naturalizer123 said:
Well, fine. Give me an example of not listing traffic tickets causing deprtation. Otherwise it is in your imagination. So the bottomline is there is no need to list anything like that.
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You are quoting yourself in that post ... and that proofs ... what ? Alex
 
JoeF said:
One is not a citation, the other one is.
Again, the question requires you to list all citations. It doesn't require to list things that are not citations, arrest, or detainments.
Just read the question again: "Have you ever been arrested, cited or detained by any law enforcement officer (including USCIS or former INS and military officers) for any reason?"
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Who told you that is not? It is not for you to determine what is a citation or not. The real questions is that what citation is relevant to NZ. ALL means all needed for NZ not ALL for anything
 
JoeF said:
One is not a citation, the other one is.
Again, the question requires you to list all citations. It doesn't require to list things that are not citations, arrest, or detainments.
Just read the question again: "Have you ever been arrested, cited or detained by any law enforcement officer (including USCIS or former INS and military officers) for any reason?"
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With all due respect, JoeF, I think you have to admit that you interpret it all wrong for this question.
 
JoeF said:
They ask for all citations. See the question: "Have you ever been arrested, cited or detained by any law enforcement officer (including USCIS or former INS and military officers) for any reason?"
So, by not listing citations you commit perjury.
First off, not being truthful on an application for something from a private company is never perjury. You can only commit perjury if you declare something under oath. That's a basic legal concept. Perjury means lying under oath. And an oath can only be administered by the government. Lying on the N-400 is no different than lying under oath in court.
Perjury is a felony, and makes an alien deportable.
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Again, you are not cited for a crime or misdemeanor, which is the only thing that is required for this question. You are confusing what is needed and what is reported.
 
JoeF said:
They ask for all citations. See the question: "Have you ever been arrested, cited or detained by any law enforcement officer (including USCIS or former INS and military officers) for any reason?"
So, by not listing citations you commit perjury.
First off, not being truthful on an application for something from a private company is never perjury. You can only commit perjury if you declare something under oath. That's a basic legal concept. Perjury means lying under oath. And an oath can only be administered by the government. Lying on the N-400 is no different than lying under oath in court.
Perjury is a felony, and makes an alien deportable.
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Whatever, let us call it lying, not perjury, if you wish.
 
JoeF said:
If it says on the ticket that it is a citation, it is. If it doesn't say that, it isn't. Just look at your tickets. You can also check the traffic laws in your state.
Again, and again, that's not for you to decide. CIS wants you to list all citations, excatly because you can't know if it is relevant or not (and neither can your lawyer, unless he is an expert in traffic law.) Here is the question again. Read it and comprehend it: "Have you ever been arrested, cited or detained by any law enforcement officer (including USCIS or former INS and military officers) for any reason?"
And a speeding ticket could be relevant for naturalization.
Furthermore, by not listing all citations you commit perjury.
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Speeding tickets is only relevant to NZ if DUI or Crime involved. That is of course needed.

For your first point, if the ticket has not citation written on it, it is not a citation any more? Are you sure?
 
JoeF said:
If it says on the ticket that it is a citation, it is. If it doesn't say that, it isn't. Just look at your tickets. You can also check the traffic laws in your state.
Again, and again, that's not for you to decide. CIS wants you to list all citations, excatly because you can't know if it is relevant or not (and neither can your lawyer, unless he is an expert in traffic law.) Here is the question again. Read it and comprehend it: "Have you ever been arrested, cited or detained by any law enforcement officer (including USCIS or former INS and military officers) for any reason?"
And a speeding ticket could be relevant for naturalization.
Furthermore, by not listing all citations you commit perjury.
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Then you commit perjury if you do not list parking tickets, too. How do you explain that?
 
JoeF said:
Huh? Have you actually read the question? Where does it say that only a citation for a crime or misdemeanor matters???
Here is the question again: "Have you ever been arrested, cited or detained by any law enforcement officer (including USCIS or former INS and military officers) for any reason?"
Nowhere in that question does it say anything about a crime or misdemeanor. On the contrary, it says "for any reason".
What part of "for any reason" don't you understand???

It is obvious that you are the one who is confused. Again, read the question: "Have you ever been arrested, cited or detained by any law enforcement officer (including USCIS or former INS and military officers) for any reason?"
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For any reason it could be "parking". But I am sure nobody is reporting that. I have read it very well since you have quote it each time. But again it does not prove your point, which is totally wrong for this question. It is not what is asked for so there is no need to list it.
 
JoeF said:
Where does it say that???
The question cleary says "for any reason: "Have you ever been arrested, cited or detained by any law enforcement officer (including USCIS or former INS and military officers) for any reason?"
What part of that don't you understand???
What "any more"? A ticket that doesn't have citation on it, and the section of the law it is issued pursuant to, would never have been a citation.
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it could be a citation but is not the citation that is required for NZ
 
JoeF said:
If a parking ticket doesn't say that it is a citation, it isn't a citation, and doesn't have to be listed. Again, and again, and again, the question asks about citations: "Have you ever been arrested, cited or detained by any law enforcement officer (including USCIS or former INS and military officers) for any reason?"
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Well, a speeding ticket that does not say "citation" on it is not a citation?
 
JoeF said:
You really have no clue about laws, have you? If something was wrong in the wording of a parking ticket, it would be invalid. No city in the world would risk that.
Again, and again, and again, all citations have to be listed. Tickets that are not citations are not citations, and obviously don't fall under the question asked:
"Have you ever been arrested, cited or detained by any law enforcement officer (including USCIS or former INS and military officers) for any reason?"
Then why do you fail to understand it?
All citations have to be listed. That is what they ask for. It is right there in the question: "Have you ever been arrested, cited or detained by any law enforcement officer (including USCIS or former INS and military officers) for any reason?"
You really need to read it and comprehend it. What is so hard about it???
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The problem is that ALL means NZ related, so it excludes traffic ticket. Who cares about anything that is not NZ related.
 
JoeF said:
You sign under penalty of perjury, that everything on the N-400 is correct. If you lie on it, you commit perjury. Perjury is a felony. And a felony makes a person deportable under INA 212.
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But there is no perjury involved.
 
JoeF said:
That is your faulty interpretation.
It doesn't say "all, but only things that matter for naturalization", it says "all", period.
CIS cares.
Here is the question again: I suggest you finally read it and comprehend it: "Have you ever been arrested, cited or detained by any law enforcement officer (including USCIS or former INS and military officers) for any reason?"
Once again, for any reason, not "for naturalization reasons".
It is not hard to understand. Anybody with even a rudimentary education understands that. Why don't you?
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No, it meas NZ related event. Otherwise it won't be called N400, it will be called Traffic 400.
 
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