Traffic Tickets do not count!

[AlexanderG]

PacMan, I don't see how you can read 'fear' in JoeF's post (?) He is a US-citizen ... so he is unlikely to be 'afraid' about the correct answer of this question, don't you think ? In order for JoeF's life to be 'hell' he would have to be religious ... I can't read that in his post either.
However, you seem to disagree ... how would you -based on facts- stand up to that point of view ?

Alex

 

[MrJackie]

PacMan, I don't see how you can read 'fear' in JoeF's post (?) He is a US-citizen ... so he is unlikely to be 'afraid' about the correct answer of this question, don't you think ? In order for JoeF's life to be 'hell' he would have to be religious ... I can't read that in his post either.
However, you seem to disagree ... how would you -based on facts- stand up to that point of view ?

Alex

Are you joef's sidekick?I don't have time now, but I will try to respond tomorrow.

 

[MrJackie]

Huh? How do you get from following the law to living "in constant fear"?
Does following the law instill fear in you???

Do you want to mean that reputed lawyers don't follow law? or even CIS officers ignores law?? Or you interprets law (which can not be disputed by anyone) for everybody here?? If YES then why don't you response to qili's post(as well as mine)on your credentials.

 

[AlexanderG]

Are you joef's sidekick?I don't have time now, but I will try to respond tomorrow.

Perfect ...then we two sidekicks can chat about this over a cup of tea. Charming ! Alex

 

[NJGoose]

The confusion regarding whether minor traffic tickets should be reported as citations on N-400 was created by CIS. Instead of deleting “excluding minor traffic citations” from the old N-400 form, they could ask “have you been charged with driving under influence (DUI) or reckless driving?” We know that CIS is not interested in knowing your minor traffic tickets. But if you answer Yes, they could suspect that you were involved in DUI or other serious charges. The best strategy is not to report minor traffic tickets on the N-400 form, but to mention them during the interview and bring your traffic ticket payment receipts with you just in case. In most cases, the officer won't care.

 

[NJGoose]

Then there would be other things that would fall through the cracks. FOr example, there is DWI, there is stuff like vehicular manslaughter, etc.

We are talking about minor traffic tickets or manslaughter? CIS could easily define a threshold of penalty for a minor traffic violation below which one does not have to report as a citation.

 

[NJGoose]

Oh, and good immigration lawyers, e.g., Ron Gotcher, of course know that all citations have to be listed. Unfortunately, there are a lot of not-so-good lawyers out there...

I read Ron Gotcher's forum too but I thought Ron said it doesn't matter if one report minor traffic violations on N-400 or not. Would you please quote what Ron said.

 

[qili]

PacMan, I don't see how you can read 'fear' in JoeF's post (?) He is a US-citizen ... Alex

I hope noone is naive enough to suggest that US citizens have no fear, of the law or not.

 

[qili]

As pointed out by qili many times,
Joef
1) You are not trained in law
2) You explicitely waives any obligation for taking anybody your advice.
3) You are not liable to tell truth.

just for the record, I didn't come up with those criteria. JoeF did.

However,when I presented his own criteria back to him and ask himed that since he failed everyone of the criteria, does he think we should believe him or not, he has not been able to answer that simple question for the last few weeks.

I never realized that such a simple question can be so difficult for JoeF to answer. Hopefully, asking him to apply his own logic to himself isn't too much for JoeF to take. But he has been complaining ever since so I don't know.

 

[mpotturi]

just for the record, I didn't come up with those criteria. JoeF did.

However,when I presented his own criteria back to him and ask himed that since he failed everyone of the criteria, does he think we should believe him or not, he has not been able to answer that simple question for the last few weeks.

I never realized that such a simple question can be so difficult for JoeF to answer. Hopefully, asking him to apply his own logic to himself isn't too much for JoeF to take. But he has been complaining ever since so I don't know.

You hit the nail right on the head qili. I read the silense as no contest.

 

[NJGoose]

Ron stated on my direct questions that all tickets have to be reported. This was in 2002, after I noticed the change on the N-400.
Unfortunately, since he changed his board software, the post is no longer available.
And a simple search on Ron's website shows plenty of his posts on that topic, e.g, http://immigration-information.com/forums/showthread.php?t=17
"For whatever reason, the CIS asks that you disclose even traffic tickets. There is absolutely nothing in the law that allows them to deny an application for naturalization because of traffic tickets."

Now I suggest that you finally give this topic a rest. It is as clear as it can be. You have to report all citation. Period. End of story.

That was in 2002 when the N-400 was changed. Now here is what Ron states on his web site regarding reporting minor traffic violations on N-400:
"With respect to everything else, it is better to err on the side of caution and report all brushes with the law, including traffic stops. There are no reported cases in which an ordinary traffic offense (or group of offenses) has ever resulted in a denial of naturalization benefits."

I think you still interpret Ron's words "it is better to err on the side of caution ..." to "you have to ... ". You must be tougher than the lawyer you admire.

 

[mpotturi]

Are you trying to be the successor of the N400 nutcase???
I do not care a bit of what his sidekick qili says.
Now get lost.
PLONK!

Your language suggests that you are mad. Geeting mad is the fisrt sign of defeat.

 

[qili]

this is what I wrote to our admin recently:
===================================

What BS.

Any word of advice as to if this is a violation of forum rules?

Thanks.
===================================

I encourage anyone and everyone reports offensive behaviors to the admin so that we send a strong signal that such behaviors are not to be tolerated in a civil discussion.

Thank you.

 

[nike3272]

There seems to be a condescending tone in Joe's responses. We(they) know you think they're inferior, that they're here just to leech off your resources, we get it. This arguing over what they should have listed is just nitpicking(it's not the fact that they have to follow it, considering the law is biased in the first place, it's the tone that you use just because they're not "Americans"). Heck, the entire naturalization process has a racist tone to it(I had to remain a lot more respectful than I normally would outside, throughout the entire process.)

Why can't there be a law that says that if you come here and make this country better, you deserve to stay. I bet Joe himself wouldn't be so haughty.

 

[NJGoose]

This ticket stuff has been discussed for ages, and if even after all this, somebody posts wrong information, it just becomes ridiculous.
All citations, including traffic tickets, have to be reported. No buts or ifs. Period. End of story.
It is not hard to understand. Again, all citations, including traffic tickets, have to be reported.

Reporting of minor traffic tickets is a gray area. The reality is that it doesn't matter if one reports them in N-400 or not, he will get naturalized. CIS won't care. Let's leave it to individuals and lawyers to make their own decisions. If one decides to report them, be sure to get payment receipts on all of them.

 

[Max Spider X]

What about instances where you have tried entering the subway without swiping your metrocard at the booth and was subsequently stopped by the MTA agent who wrote you a $50 ticket? Is that considered to be on the same offense level as traffic tickets?

 

[AlexanderG]

Reporting of minor traffic tickets is a gray area. The reality is that it doesn't matter if one reports them in N-400 or not, he will get naturalized. CIS won't care. Let's leave it to individuals and lawyers to make their own decisions. If one decides to report them, be sure to get payment receipts on all of them.

"Have you ever been arrested, cited or detained by any law enforcement officer (including USCIS or former INS and military officers) for any reason?"

That sounds pretty 'gray' ... I mean, it is very difficult to figure out if you should answer 'yes' if you have been cited by a law enforcement officer for a reason, don't you agree ?

Alex

 

[AlexanderG]

What about instances where you have tried entering the subway without swiping your metrocard at the booth and was subsequently stopped by the MTA agent who wrote you a $50 ticket? Is that considered to be on the same offense level as traffic tickets?

Is the MTA agent a law enforcement officer (including USCIS or former INS and military officers) ? (...) Alex

 

[Max Spider X]

Pretty sure the agent was a law enforcement officer. I am not sure if the ticket was a citation. But it states the following above the officer's signature:

"Commission of the violation charged above was observed by me or by the witness/complainant named on the reverse side. At or near the time and place of occurence I did personally serve a true copy of the herein Notice of Violation, unless 'copy refused' is checked below. Affirmed under penalty of perjury."

Also, the ticket color is yellow, issued by Transit Adjudication Bureau.

 

[NJGoose]

No. The N-400 clearly states that all citations have to be reported. Nothing gray. Geez, it is not hard to understand.

It is gray because one would not be denied of citizenship if he did not report minor traffic violations.