Traffic Tickets do not count!

[RAsungod]

LegalAlien99 & others: Fingerprint Status. How to determine?

Just an aside question on the details below. How does one know when the FBI reports to USCIS regarding the FP? Just curious having seen your experience and dates below.
Thanks

First things first: CONGRATULATIONS!!!!

Yes, I did not list the one ticket I got and will mention it during the interview. I am too worried about it. The only thing that worries me - like most other applicants - is the threat of being stuck in the infamous name check fiasco.

Cheers!


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N-400 @ VSC
PD: 01/17/06
Check cashed: 01/23/06
ND: 02/14/06 (received 02/18/06)
FP notice: 03/01/06 (received 03/05/06)
FP: 03/15/06 (FBI reported back to USCIS the same day)
Online Status disappeared on 04/12/2006
ID/OD: 06/20/2006

 

[naturalizer123]

And yet another one who can't read...
What part of "have you ever been ... cited, ... for any reason?" don't you understand???

But N400 instruction specifically points out that traffic violation needs not to be reported, so this citation does not include traffic violation. And it makes sense. It looks like you are the one who cannot read. I understand it perfectly. I think it is you who is haing problem understand basic English.

You are the one who misinterprets things. Geez. It is in plain English language in the question" Have you ever been ... cited, ... for any reason?"
Anybody with basic English knowledge would understand that.
Why is it that some people fail to read this simple sentence???

Again, why do you fail to interpret what the language really means? You need to learn to read between lines and know what is asked for. People like you screw up the review process for USCIS officer and make their life harder than ever. Don't play the word game. check the dictionary for what "cited" mean.

 

[chatrathi]

What is the downside?

So assume that you have a couple of minor traffic violations (pretty standard stuff - speeding etc.), what is the downside of mentioning them on the N-400, especially given the extremely straightforward language on the form?

Maybe, I am wrong, but I don't see how including the ticket information would have any kind of negative impact to the application process.

Philosophically speaking, it is a tough question to answer, because in most people's mind, they are law-abiding citizens (or soon to be citizens!) and asking them to admit to the fact that they have been "detained/cited" by a law enforcement officer brings out all kinds of negative connotations. Even though in reality it is an extremely minor and totally insignificant event in the grand scheme of things.

That being said, this thread has gotta be the most interesting one of the year. I haven't seen this much of really strong sentiments being expressed on something that is so inconsequential. But such is the process of immigration - more emotional than legal!

 

[MrJackie]

So assume that you have a couple of minor traffic violations (pretty standard stuff - speeding etc.), what is the downside of mentioning them on the N-400, especially given the extremely straightforward language on the form?

Downside could be, CIS officer might take it as some serious offense at just face value and will try to interiogate more to applicant or might just put him into some more review process by his supervisors,FBI prior to interview, which can delay process significantly.

Rather than, individuals trying to analyze by themselves, there are many members mentioned in this thread that their lawyers told them specifically not to mention traffic violations on N-400 forms and also it was confirmed by CIS officer at interview. These are professionals who are trained in immigration for years/life.So which is more reliable, reputed lawyers/CIS officers advice or few geeks here trying to advice to everybody on every issue. Answer is obvious, ignore geeks and follow professionals.

 

[chatrathi]

Examples of delays?

Downside could be, CIS officer might take it as some serious offense at just face value and will try to interiogate more to applicant or might just put him into some more review process by his supervisors,FBI prior to interview, which can delay process significantly.

Rather than, individuals trying to analyze by themselves, there are many members mentioned in this thread that their lawyers told them specifically not to mention traffic violations on N-400 forms and also it was confirmed by CIS officer at interview. These are professionals who are trained in immigration for years/life.So which is more reliable, reputed lawyers/CIS officers advice or few geeks here trying to advice to everybody on every issue. Answer is obvious, ignore geeks and follow professionals.

Are there any examples of delays caused specifically because people mentioned minor traffic tickets? All the interview threads that I have read seem to imply that the interviewing officer did not particularly care about them. In my own experience, I listed all 4 or so tickets that I received. The officer joked about how close some of them were and I told him that they happened when I was learning how to drive in the snow. And that was the end of it.

I think it is a gamble that one takes if you begin interpretting the instructions on the form. Enough people have posted exact text from the form and also instructions from BCIS, so I will not repeat it. But in reading and re-reading that particular section/question, it seems to be completely unambiguous.

I fear that this thread is becoming a question of interpretation and not of the facts. And by definition of interpretation, there cannot be agreement on this. My personal opinion, for what it's worth, is that until somebody can materially demonstrate that the BCIS/FBI/DHS/UPS/FEDEX or whatever delayed the completion of their citizenship application for the sole purpose of listing minor traffic violations, I will stand by the statement that they should be included.

To thoroughly misquote Churchill, Never have so many contributed so much to something so little

Cheers!

 

[MrJackie]

I fear that this thread is becoming a question of interpretation and not of the facts. And by definition of interpretation, there cannot be agreement on this. My personal opinion, for what it's worth, is that until somebody can materially demonstrate that the BCIS/FBI/DHS/UPS/FEDEX or whatever delayed the completion of their citizenship application for the sole purpose of listing minor traffic violations, I will stand by the statement that they should be included.

To thoroughly misquote Churchill, Never have so many contributed so much to something so little

Cheers!

There are many applicants whose processes get delayed regularely for unknown reasons. Nobody knows why some of them takes more time than others. This can be one of reasons. Who knows and Who cares. Or how about this.. Is there anybody got in trouble by not listing traffic violations as citations?? Is there any ? No

So now if you are in doubt, what should you do? Follow professionals. Right?Lawyers are trained in this area and with knowledge of immigration cases, they are in better situation to give in-depth advice on such issues.
If lawyers tells that , you don't have to list., it means you don't have to. Its as simple as it is.

 

[RealSuperK]

Downside could be, CIS officer might take it as some serious offense at just face value and will try to interiogate more to applicant or might just put him into some more review process by his supervisors,FBI prior to interview, which can delay process significantly.

By the same token, if you don't list tickets on the form, a CIS officer might think - "If he/she is hiding stuff like that, what else might he/she be hiding?"

The bottom line is that's it's almost up to each particular CIS officer is he/she
wants to give you crap about not mentioning tickets. I didn't mention tickets on my form, but I did bring them up at the interview and I did have paperwork (except for one that happened almost 10 years ago) And the CIS officer did ask me if I paid all the fines. I also read a long time ago on this forum that a guy got specifically asked "You didn't even have a single speeding ticket?" when the officer saw blank on the list of citation.

Speeding tickets will not affect you application one way or another. But be prepared to answer questions if the officer feels like giving you crap that day. That's all there is to it.

 

[Poiuyt]

Traffic ticket does not count and there is no need to report it on N400 form. Both lawyers and CIS officer have confirm ed it many times. It is totally irrelevant to the naturlization process, which looks for crimes and moral turpitude.

Please don't overinterpret the law and try to split hair here.

Agree with you.My lawyer(who handles fortune500 companies for immigration for decades)also suggested me same way.

 

[Poiuyt]

Splitting hairs are people like you who are apparently unable to read and comprehend the crystal-clear language on the N-400:

Thats obviously is your hobby. I leave it to my lawyer/s who had vast experience in immigration. Their firm process 1000's of immigration application per year. Enough said. And Keep your ludicrous language to yourself. I will follow my lawyers advice

 

[naturalizer123]

Are you unable to read and comprehend the questions asked on the N-400?
Here it is again:
"Have you ever been arrested, cited or detained by any law enforcement officer (including USCIS or former INS and military officers) for any reason?"
Now, care to explain what is so hard to understand about it that you need somebody else to decipher it for you?
Geez, English isn't that hard...

Again, traffic ticket does not belong to this group "arrest, citation, and detain", which are reserved for more serious crime or behavior. It is so obvious in its wording, but I guess it is so hard for you to get it, isn't it?

 

[naturalizer123]

And what does "ever" and "any" mean???
There is no interpretation. You have to declare all citations. Period.

Not true! Do you list your parking citations?

What is asked for is all citations.
Huh? It is people like you who think they can "interpret" things in any way they like.

Your interpretation is clearly wrong, unnecessary, and misleading, as most of us here agreed.

I have. You obviously not.
A citation is a legal document, and traffic tickets are citations. All citations have to be listed on the N-400. It is not hard to understand if you would actually just read the sentence and not "interpret" it in some weird way.

Yes it is a citation but it is not the intended purpose of the requirement on N400. In another word, it is totally irrelevant to what they want to ask. Please don't mix irrelevant materials.

 

[naturalizer123]

So assume that you have a couple of minor traffic violations (pretty standard stuff - speeding etc.), what is the downside of mentioning them on the N-400, especially given the extremely straightforward language on the form?

Maybe, I am wrong, but I don't see how including the ticket information would have any kind of negative impact to the application process.

Philosophically speaking, it is a tough question to answer, because in most people's mind, they are law-abiding citizens (or soon to be citizens!) and asking them to admit to the fact that they have been "detained/cited" by a law enforcement officer brings out all kinds of negative connotations. Even though in reality it is an extremely minor and totally insignificant event in the grand scheme of things.

That being said, this thread has gotta be the most interesting one of the year. I haven't seen this much of really strong sentiments being expressed on something that is so inconsequential. But such is the process of immigration - more emotional than legal!

There is not really any downside for the purpose of naturalization (except it will incur more delay should officer want to investigate it further, why does someone want to do that, anyway?). it is simply unnecessary and irrelevant. It is like saying someone asked" What did you have for dinner", you answered " I lost my keys". It sounds stupid

 

[naturalizer123]

By the same token, if you don't list tickets on the form, a CIS officer might think - "If he/she is hiding stuff like that, what else might he/she be hiding?"

The bottom line is that's it's almost up to each particular CIS officer is he/she
wants to give you crap about not mentioning tickets. I didn't mention tickets on my form, but I did bring them up at the interview and I did have paperwork (except for one that happened almost 10 years ago) And the CIS officer did ask me if I paid all the fines. I also read a long time ago on this forum that a guy got specifically asked "You didn't even have a single speeding ticket?" when the officer saw blank on the list of citation.

Speeding tickets will not affect you application one way or another. But be prepared to answer questions if the officer feels like giving you crap that day. That's all there is to it.

Usually what happens is the opposite. By saying yes on irrelevant stuff draws attention of USCIS to investigate further (see if you have paid the fine or not), which leads to nothing but delays. Why do you want to do that?

 

[naturalizer123]

Any statistics? If not, this would just be idle speculation, and can't be the basis for any kind of discussion.

By lying to CIS about traffic tickets, you risk deportation. Why do you want do to that?

Traffic ticket is not needed for N400. So there is no lying involved.

 

[naturalizer123]

Who "reserved" them? You???
A traffic ticket is a citation. It says so right on the ticket.
What part of "citation" don't you understand???

It is indeed crystal clear in its wording. It says "citation" right on the ticket. But I guess you don't understand English, so it seems to be hard to get for you, isn't it?
It is spelled C-I-T-A-T-I-O-N. Printed right on the ticket. Which letter of the word C-I-T-A-T-I-O-N don't you understand???

I perfectly understand the meaning of citation, and in this situation, it refers to a crime, arrest, and matters that have an impact to your naturalization. There are many places written citations on it. They are not to be reported to CIS. Do you agree?

 

[naturalizer123]

If you don't answer the question truthfully, you risk deportation. And indeed, "why does somebody want to do that, anyway?"
You are not the one to determine that. You just have to answer the question truthfully. Nothing else..

Not listing traffic tickets cause deportation? Please give me an example.

Huh? It rather is like somebody asked "What did you have for dinner", and you say "nothing", while you had a burger. And your "argument" is as if you only have to say "a steak" or anything more fancy.

It is just an example, it does not matter how you answer it because it is not relevant what is asked.

 

[naturalizer123]

K-I-L-L-F-I-L-E

P-L-O-N-K

Geez and finally P-L-O-N-K again

What is your problem? We are having a valid naturalization discussion here. If you don't have anything to contribute, go away then.

 

[naturalizer123]

How often do I need to go over this???
A traffic ticket is a citation, and therefore has to be listed when answering this question: ""Have you ever been arrested, cited or detained by any law enforcement officer (including USCIS or former INS and military officers) for any reason?"
Not listing a citation when required to do so if of course lying. And you sign the N-400 under penalty of perjury. You swaer that everything on it is true. If you don't list a traffic ticket, i.e., a citation, you would lie under oath, and that's perjury and makes you deportable.
So, again, you have to list all citations. Again the question: "Have you ever been arrested, cited or detained by any law enforcement officer (including USCIS or former INS and military officers) for any reason?"

I can understand the ALL in your argument (it is in bold, thanks!). But unfortunately, traffic tickets obviously do not belong to this "ALL". All refers to anything that is naturalization related. It must be included if it is an auto insurance application.

 

[naturalizer123]

I can understand the ALL in your argument (it is in bold, thanks!). But unfortunately, traffic tickets obviously do not belong to this "ALL". All refers to anything that is naturalization related. It must be included if it is an auto insurance application.

Well, fine. Give me an example of not listing traffic tickets causing deprtation. Otherwise it is in your imagination. So the bottomline is there is no need to list anything like that.

 

[naturalizer123]

If you lie on the N-400, e.g., by not listing speeding tickets, you commit perjury. That's a felony and makes you deportable.
And I just pointed out that your "example" was completely wrong, and ridiculous anyway.

It is no more ridiculous than your example, which provides document that is not asked and needed.