Do I need to keep my plastic GC with me?

[Mr Vertigo]

It just boils down to the fact that people don't WANT to follow the law, yet they demand that USCIS do so.

No, people just don't want to lose their Green Cards and then deal with USCIS and endure all the pain that comes with that. It's a trade-off that people have made not to have to deal with USCIS unless absolutely necessary.

 

[nkm-oct23]

Quote:
Originally Posted by TheRealCanadian
It just boils down to the fact that people don't WANT to follow the law, yet they demand that USCIS do so.

Do you follow all the laws all the time? Do you ALWAYS driver under the speed limit?

 

[Jackolantern]

While that's true, it's a non sequitur. It doesn't make the requirement any more or less valid.

It makes the law a stupid and useless one. Whether green card holders carry the card everywhere won't make it any easier to detect or capture illegal immigrants, unless EVERYBODY including citizens has to carry proof of legal status.

Another non sequitur. It may provide justification for not obeying the law, but does not speak to the validity of the requirement.

You asked what's the difference. What I mentioned is a significant difference.

Again a non sequitur - but I'd venture that 99% of the people walking down the street or riding in the train who have a DL carry it, whether they need it or not. Do you take your DL out of your wallet each time you go out, even if you're not driving??

I don't carry my DL when I'm jogging around the block. And when I travel to cities where I'm not renting a car, I often leave the license locked up in the hotel safe or my friend/relative's house when I go somewhere.

 

[mh66ii]

That is not correct

By law you have to. I carried mine for 35 months in my wallet. It is your call

That is not correct.law says it must be in your position at all the time not carrying with you at all the time. So technically if you lose it, it is not in your posotion other than that you don't have to carry it around with you.

 

[TheRealCanadian]

You asked what's the difference. What I mentioned is a significant difference.

I asked for a difference in the requirement, not a difference in how you decided whether to abide by the requirement or not.

Of course, if you want to go down this road, the requirement for a DL and proof of insurance is equally stupid. In the state of Georgia, my auto insurance card is NOT valid proof of insurance - only the state database is. I don't see why the DMV database couldn't be proof of licensure too, therefore maybe I should stop carrying around my DL when I drive.

 

[TheRealCanadian]

Do you follow all the laws all the time? Do you ALWAYS driver under the speed limit?

Would you prefer that USCIS didn't follow the laws when they were stupid and unreasonable?

 

[GotPR?]

USCIS should learn something from DMV to cover the lack of funding. It could be one big money making machine for them.:lol

 

[Jackolantern]

Of course, if you want to go down this road, the requirement for a DL and proof of insurance is equally stupid. In the state of Georgia, my auto insurance card is NOT valid proof of insurance - only the state database is.

The requirement to carry insurance is mainly to facilitate the ability of other drivers to obtain your insurance information at the scene of an accident. Somebody who got hit shouldn't have to chase the other driver by voicemail for days to find out their insurance company and policy number. If you're not in accident the cops don't really need to see your insurance information, but asking for it anyway reinforces the requirement to carry it so that when you are in accident it would be available.

I don't see why the DMV database couldn't be proof of licensure too, therefore maybe I should stop carrying around my DL when I drive.

EVERYBODY who drives has to carry the license, not just a certain small subset of them. As I explained above, when the requirement applies to everybody it can be effective for detecting or deterring the unauthorized, because the lack of the document indicates a high probability of the person not being authorized. Whereas when the requirement only applies to a small subset, finding somebody not carrying the document doesn't help you to detect the unauthorized if 90% of the population aren't carrying the document and aren't required to.

I'll grant that if the police are always going to rely on a computer to look up your license information every time, the requirement could be relaxed to a requirement to carry a copy of your license or even a paper with your license number. However, they don't always have a computer; they often use a handheld device that can detect whether the license is a forgery but it won't look up anything in a database.

Similarly, the requirement for LPRs to show a green card at the port of entry would be useless for keeping out illegal aliens if citizens could get entry without showing anything. The only thing that achieves is keeping out LPRs who have lost their card. But once the requirement to show some proof of status is applied to everybody at the POE, it gains effectiveness.

 

[Triple Citizen]

We can agree to disagree on our interpretations.

That is not correct.law says it must be in your position at all the time not carrying with you at all the time. So technically if you lose it, it is not in your posotion other than that you don't have to carry it around with you.

 

[mmed]

It makes the law a stupid and useless one. Whether green card holders carry the card everywhere won't make it any easier to detect or capture illegal immigrants, unless EVERYBODY including citizens has to carry proof of legal status.

In the state I live, they issue DL for 10 years for citizens, 5 years only for GC holders. When I asked why, my GC is valid for 10 years, I was told to know citizens from GC holders. There are many ways in most states to know citizen from no citizen by documents in their possession. The point is: If you get caught and asked to show your GC what are you going to say: I am a citizen? This is big violation which may lead to voiding of the status; citizens do not carry proves of their status and I follow their steps? the immediate answer will be this is not your business; I do not carry GC not to lose it? This is an immigration violation.
I think it is not my business to make citizens carry documents to prove their citizenship or not, my business is to follow the law regarding my own status or request by many legal ways available to change the law. The law is stupid or genus again is not an excuse and will not waive me from the consequences.

 

[mh66ii]

We can agree to disagree on our interpretations.

I aggree but just letting froum know that I was told by IO on infopass that I do not have to carry it around and what I said earlier is what exactly INS officer has told me so it is not my interpretation.
Thanks

 

[Jackolantern]

The point is: If you get caught and asked to show your GC what are you going to say: I am a citizen? This is big violation which may lead to voiding of the status;

A permanent resident wouldn't lie like that, because they want to keep their status. But an illegal alien has a big incentive to lie and claim to be a citizen. Then the officer either has to take their word for it, or disprove their claim by methods that have nothing to do with who is carrying green cards or not. So the requirement for LPRs to carry green cards everywhere doesn't help anybody to catch a single illegal alien.

the immediate answer will be this is not your business; I do not carry GC not to lose it? This is an immigration violation.

I am not telling anybody not to carry the card. If I leave the house without my GC and get caught, I just have to suffer the consequences whatever they are. I am just pointing out how useless the rule is, and that the consequences of getting caught ($100 fine)* is generally less than the consequence of losing the card ($370 fee plus possible travel cancellation, etc.).


*the law on the books allows up to 30 days imprisonment, but I don't think that is very common.

 

[Triple Citizen]

This forum has seen plenty of cases where people got into trouble by listening to what USCIS officers told them. The way USCIS works, even if it is their mistake, the applicant/beneficiary pays the price

I aggree but just letting froum know that I was told by IO on infopass that I do not have to carry it around and what I said earlier is what exactly INS officer has told me so it is not my interpretation.

 

[tnwalker]

I just moved to San Diego recently. I have travelled across the US and never been asked my greencard and did not even realize it was a rule to carry it. But shortly after I took another one of my long driving trips to Tucson, AZ.I drove through Interstate 8 which is very close to mexico for long stretches. They have permanent border patrol inspection stations where everybody-cars/trucks have to stop and they have drug/illegal sniffing dogs(apparantely they are trained to sniff out extra people hidden in compartments). I was stopped and didn't have my Greencard. Two young guys grilled me-where I am going, how I got my greencard etc-not very friendly. One guy even said he could take me in and I could loose my greencard-I guess at the border they meet too many illegals(i was stopped in AZ) and so use whatever means to figure out if he is a legal or illegal-they really have no way of finding out if someone confident claims they are a citizen and provides a license.

Then they told me that it is the rule and next time they would throw me into the illegal holding van and then verify if I was legal or not. I was a bit mad-but held my toungue-no sense arguing with two guys with guns. Once I reached Tuscon, I looked it up and yes it is the rule. They would have been well within their rights to take me into the van and verify who I was(I also found out later, that the border patrol has jurisdiction for 100 mi from the border-where your normal "rules" don't apply.) On the way back I drove up to Phoenix and drove west to Los Angeles and drove south-about 150-200 mi extra-but didn't want to deal with the hassle of checkpoints.

So now I always carry my card wherever I go. In a way it was good for me-I was a bit lazy applying for citizenship-qualified years ago- and I applied for citizenship right away-well I found out about 3month rule physical presence in that DO rule-but applied right away as soon as I finished that.

The rule is you must have proof at all times. I have travelled extensively and never was asked unless entering the country. But if you are ever travelling in the southern border areas-you will be stopped-there are several permanent checkpoints(mostly to stop drug trafficking and illegal immigration). But they will stop every car and truck and are normally ok. But if Greencard or any other visa-better have it with you. I also was reading they are starting this in the northern border.

 

[nkm-oct23]

If you just had a copy of your green card, they could have verified it's authenticity by checking USCIS database. If you had nothing they would be within their rights to detain you.

 

[tnwalker]

By law you are required to carry it at all times. Below is the section from USCIS website and link. It probably depends on the discretion of the officer -much like a policeman who pulls you over for speeding can let you off with a verbal warning-which is what I think I got off with -a verbal warning. But that is the law-it says card and not copy.

Permanent Resident Card
The Permanent Resident Card, Form I-551, is issued to all Permanent Residents as evidence of alien registration and their permanent status in the US. The card must be in your possession at all times. This requirement means that you are not only required to have a currently valid Form I-551 at all times, but also that you must carry your currently valid Form I-551 on your person at all times. The Permanent Resident Card currently is issued with a 10-year validity. You status as a Permanent Resident does not expire with the 10-year validity. Only the card expires. The card is only valid up to the expiration date and must be renewed before it expires.

http://www.uscis.gov/portal/site/us...nnel=4f719c7755cb9010VgnVCM10000045f3d6a1RCRD

 

[Jackolantern]

This is the actual text of the law:

"Every alien, eighteen years of age and over, shall at all times carry with him and have in his personal possession any certificate of alien registration or alien registration receipt card issued to him pursuant to subsection (d). Any alien who fails to comply with the provisions of this subsection shall be guilty of a misdemeanor and shall upon conviction for each offense be fined not to exceed $100 or be imprisoned not more than thirty days, or both."

If you live near a border where they frequently have those raids and checkpoints, then you probably have a higher chance of having to show the card while going about your daily business than having the card stolen. But outside of those areas, it's far more likely you'll get robbed than having to show proof of legal status. And if you get robbed and lose both your DL and GC, your life becomes like hell when you try to replace them.

 

[Triple Citizen]

English for me is indeed a second language, but I really find it hard to comprehend that there is any room to misinterpret this law. Is there any other meaning to the word carry that I am not aware of?

Every alien, eighteen years of age and over, shall at all times carry with him and have in his personal possession any certificate of alien registration or alien registration receipt card issued to him pursuant to subsection (d).

 

[Jackolantern]

English for me is indeed a second language, but I really find it hard to comprehend that there is any room to misinterpret this law. Is there any other meaning to the word carry that I am not aware of?

The law is clear to me. It's just stupid, as it does nothing to help detect illegal aliens, and I would prefer to deal with the consequences of getting caught for breaking it than the consequences of having the card stolen as a result of carrying it all the time. If every GC holder followed it every day, that would actually make life easier for illegal aliens, as there would be more stolen and lost cards available for them to use to obtain employment and do other things that involve showing proof of status.

 

[cafeconleche]

It says that you can carry any certificate of registration OR an alien registration receipt card. So what else qualifies as proof? Your welcome letter?