After the Aug Bull....Is still Ameriaca the Best

[GreenCardVirus]

Guys and Gals,

Why are we wasting time responding to useless posts by someone who has no clue about the people we are, what we represent and what our real problems are. We are falling into the trap of bickering amongst ourselves over over comments made by a guy whose GC will be handed to him within a year courtesy of his citizen wife. We need not pay attention to his baseless comments. There are so many better ways of wasting time
saras

you are one voice of reason!!

New software sales in India just saved the face of the company I work for in an otherwise very dismal quarter. I could see lot of thinking faces in the quartely meeting. They were probably worried about their jobs going to India, but it is India that will be paying their salaries. What goes around comes around.

 

[pipedream]

Eddie, I am not sure how much you know about screening process in India at the US consulate before they issue an H1B visa, I remember people used to do technical interviews at the embassy and I know for a fact that there are many good programmers in India that get rejected because they are not Computer Science graduates, or they only have 15 years of education.

I know you're trying hard to not to generalize but I wonder how is all the work going to India if the Indians are incompetent and not "creative"

This is not an indictment on Indians or India. It's an indictment on a system that allows many (not all) unqualified people to come here under the pretense of being knowledgable, experienced workers who in fact can barely turn on a computer in many instances.

 

[Pheno_Menon]

What a load of crap you proud self proclaimed 'SO*', I bet you were waiting for the first opportunity to convert from TN to any other convenient visa to escape/lessen your tax burden in Canada.

I see, so tell me Mr. Psychic what you now know about my true feelings for America. You do so well in side stepping the main issue when you get nailed and even do better in provoking others. No wonder your experience has so far been so bad with many people. Honestly let us know why you care to be in our threads if you feel so many are dishonest. You could get true responses if you back off and create your own thread, you MORON.

BTW, your immigrant status does matter, since you are throwing stones sitting inside a glass house. Being a Canadian H1B makes you no superior than anybody else here, after all who knows how much your resume lied to get your first job here. Moreover this site is primarily for immigrants and wanna be's...GOT IT...

At least we all know what your true feelings for America are. I ask again why would you want to be a permanent resident of such an awful place? Really makes no sense.

And as for my H1B status, my company got it for me after I was in the US. I was working on a TN visa, they asked if I wanted an H1B I said sure, why not and a few weeks later I got a fedex at home with my 797 piece of paper and an H1B. To tell you the truth for the longest time I thought H1B was only for India and China, I had never met anyone else (knowingly) from another country with it.

And besides it is irrelevant as to what my immigration status is.

 

[vsaksena]

Techy,

Nice to see at least one voice of reason here who is willing to hear a point of view that is different.

The last incident I mentioned took place a liitle over a year ago but I encoutered this going well back.

And maybe I didn't make this clear enough, but not every Indian programmer I worked with was like that. There were two guys who worked with me that were superb and I still play golf with one of them whenever we're in the same city.

My overall personal experience with H1B and other such visas from Indian programmers has been quite dismal. This is not an indictment on Indians or India. It's an indictment on a system that allows many (not all) unqualified people to come here under the pretense of being knowledgable, experienced workers who in fact can barely turn on a computer in many instances.

And with regard to pay, man alive were some of them cheap, like $45,000 a year cheap compared to $100K for Americans (or at least GCs/citizens that didn't need any sponsorship). And of course the guy at the top who looked at that figured what the hell, as long as we get 75% of the work from h1b guy compared to the American guy, we're still coming out on top.

Finally, this is/was not at one company where you could say I was unlucky to encounter what I did and it was an anomaly. For 6 of the last 8 years I have worked in consulting. My experiences were at client sites; at Forune 500 clients, at .com start up clients and everything in between, northeast, south, California, Texas....everywhere and every industry. I sincerely doubt that every one of those places was an anomaly. If it was I was the unluckiest SOB to ever walk the planet.

dude, you gotta hook me up with some of these so smart "non-H1Bs" & so forth. My organization is desperately in need of some "good people" and honest to god we don't care much abt what your ethnicity, nationality & so forth is. We have to do 4 startups in the next 15 months totalling over $5 million (and this is just the cost of the startups; each of these facilities runrate is in excess of $20 mil each/yr).
Pls pm me with resumes and BTW I am not even in IT, I head the Engg & Strategy group, but need "good people to interpret & understand the needs of our business & put that into code. We will I assure you pay way more than $45K you claim, and that too in tax-free NH
and to top all; they will be working for an $18 Bil holding company, so waiting........

 

[techy2468]

eddie_d i am well aware of some bad quality H1B visa holders in IT.....so what i am also aware of citizens with Bachelors in CS having no clue why they are in IT...

but i am really suprprised that you have met so many bad people.....can you say that the bad apples were something like 40% of the people you met??

hey one more thing....is it not possible that you may have a supremacy complex or you may be a perfectionist (not good for business, business needs only balanced people) and you may have judged all those people as not good enough because of these reasons........afterall all i care is "was the work done at the end of the day?".....if yes why do you need them to be purist....or rocket sceintists...

for everyone else:
sorry guys i am just trying to fathom this information that maybe we more bad quality programmers from india than we thought (i know many stories personally about people with no IT background taking some training, bluffing experience and getting a visa to usa.....).

if you guys think that some one can quote immigrationportal forum.....so much for their credibility for quoting anonymous people's comments...

if the media or the anti-immigrants want to create a case beleive me they can find hundreds of credible people willing to talk in their favor (few days back some one had posted a link about how a veteran indian immigrant was complaining about H1B exploitation and how bad is H1B program)

vsaksena: thanks for you post....i hope eddie_d can point you to some quality non-H1 human resource...

my personal experience:

i have seen the good and the bad everywhere.....they appear to have the same distribution in all ethnic groups (in corporate workers).....but one thing i know for sure.....i have seen americans without much technical skill or motivation bill $60/hr in Alabama......which is way much for such skill.......which will still go up if not for H1B.......and if americans think it is justified......they should try to get their government to stop talking about open economy and close their system so that outsourcing and H1B/L programs are stopped....

guess what....applying the same standards.....i should have been making around 200k....with a beach house and a super car......if they would have given the GC soon and banned H1/L1 program....... ...i think i will join numberusa as soon as i get my GC

 

[eddie_d]

eddie_d i am well aware of some bad quality H1B visa holders in IT.....so what i am also aware of citizens with Bachelors in CS having no clue why they are in IT...

but i am really suprprised that you have met so many bad people.....can you say that the bad apples were something like 40% of the people you met??

hey one more thing....is it not possible that you may have a supremacy complex or you may be a perfectionist (not good for business, business needs only balanced people) and you may have judged all those people as not good enough because of these reasons........afterall all i care is "was the work done at the end of the day?".....if yes why do you need them to be purist....or rocket sceintists...
)

techy,

Am I perfectionist? No. Do I expect someone who says they have 5 years of experience using a product to know what the hell they're doing from Day 1, without needing any assistance and without asking how do I log into the application? Uhmmm yeah, wouldn't you?

As for "as long as the work is done at the end of the day" mentality, sure as long as it's done, but also as long as it's done correctly, without having to redo it the next day.

Yes. 40 - 50 % is about right, meaning of course that the other 50% was just fine as I have stated a million times, ie not everyone falls into this category, just a good chunk.


to everyone else,

Go on believing what you want, you're all superstar, geniuses without whom the entire US economy would collapse. If that makes you sleep better at night, well OK why not? I tried to give you a different perspective from outside this echo chamber of "woe be me", "america is racist", "h1bs are prisoners" nonesense. Obviously you won't listen to anything that goes against your cemented thinking, and that's fine.

Good luck with your green cards.

 

[indian_gc_ocean]

eddie_d,
You are constantly quoting some mediocre H1 guys you encountered. At the same time, you are failing to acknowledge the immigration problems for talented H1s. You seem to take pride in their immigration plights, because as a whole it is affecting every H1. Come on, open up, come out of your cemented thinking and contribute something to resolve immigration issues for genuine people. If not, please do not visit these forums just tell your gory H1 stories.

 

[stucklabor]

Eddie_d,

Please don't stop posting. It is incredibly funny that you find Techy the sole voice of reason around here - at a time when a thread titled 'Why do we tolerate people like Techy' was actively discussed. I also looked that thread up and you actually make fun of people's grammar - at the same time you talk about people's 'behvior' and 'expetions to the rule'.

Please please keep posting. I beg you. I was all wrong about H1Bs. All of us are mediocre uncreative people with resumes inflated like the Hindenburg, who need constant supervision and suggestions from Gods like you to keep us on the right track at work. All I want is the daily comic relief from your posts.

Please ... don't ... go ...

 

[eddie_d]

Eddie_d,

Please don't stop posting. It is incredibly funny that you find Techy the sole voice of reason around here - at a time when a thread titled 'Why do we tolerate people like Techy' was actively discussed. I also looked that thread up and you actually make fun of people's grammar - at the same time you talk about people's 'behvior' and 'expetions to the rule'.

Please please keep posting. I beg you. I was all wrong about H1Bs. All of us are mediocre uncreative people with resumes inflated like the Hindenburg, who need constant supervision and suggestions from Gods like you to keep us on the right track at work. All I want is the daily comic relief from your posts.

Please ... don't ... go ...

Guilty as charged, I made some typos, sorry that I don't take time to spell check every word I type . If that is the best counter-argument you can make to my argument, you're more pathetic than I thought. If you'd take a few second to actually read my posts, you'd see that I said multiple times not every one of you is mediocre. But why would I expect you to understand such a simple concept. It's hard to think clearly when you're so so angy all th time.

Techy is the only reasonable person here which is exactly the reason a thread called "should we tloerate people like techy" started...the rest of you clowns have your heads so deep in the sand you won't tolerate dissent from even one of your own.

 

[stucklabor]

Sorry, Eddie, it is just not the spelling mistakes. Something as trivial that seems to be at the limits of your comprehension.

To recap, you said that most H1bs seem to be slaves and sit quiet and take abuse. I pointed out that I and my friends were not the 'sit quiet and take abuse' type of H1B. You ignored it and told me we were the exception. You went on and said that in your experience, most H1Bs were uncreative, inflated resumes, and needed someone to direct them constantly. I and several people challenged that, said that you were stereotyping, and you never responded directly.

Finally now, you grudgingly accept that 50% of H1Bs suck but the other 50% may be all right but you know of no H1B in the non-sucky 50%.

As I said earlier, if the one person on this portal that you agree with is Techy, then that speaks volumes about (a) you+Techy or (b) most everyone else.

It is a little late for you to play injured innocent.

 

[GreenCardVirus]

You went on and said that in your experience, most H1Bs were uncreative, inflated resumes, and needed someone to direct them constantly. I and several people challenged that, said that you were stereotyping, and you never responded directly.

Ofcourse they are dumb, otherwise would'nt they find a citizen wife (or husband) by now?

For people who complain on certain H1 holders, the underlying core thought is almost always that of a color scheme mismatch. I wonder if there is going to be a squeak about E3 Australian Visa.

 

[Pheno_Menon]

scram...

Well said, stucklabor. Too late to play injured innocent...So far this stinking skunk (eddie_d the great) has never responded to any of my arguments nor the challenge from the other thread. LOSER...

eddie_d, again you are so full of yourself. Your pride is boundless and your self inflated ego is even bigger than Canada. I thought you were leaving like a wounded dog with your tail stuck between your hind legs and then suddenly you turn back and bark something funny. Do you want to get more kicks in your butt from several of us. Learn your lesson man... don't try to force your opinions and then justify them by saying they're different. Will you accept any sh*t that's thrown into your backyard, just because it's different.

I have some very good Canadian freinds and always had a respected opinion that folks from there were well educated, balanced and respectful of others. You sure have changed my perception.

Are you planning to drag down techy while you are falling...so much for being pals. Gosh, you are falling...and fast.........

Guilty as charged, I made some typos, sorry that I don't take time to spell check every word I type . If that is the best counter-argument you can make to my argument, you're more pathetic than I thought. If you'd take a few second to actually read my posts, you'd see that I said multiple times not every one of you is mediocre. But why would I expect you to understand such a simple concept. It's hard to think clearly when you're so so angy all th time.

Techy is the only reasonable person here which is exactly the reason a thread called "should we tloerate people like techy" started...the rest of you clowns have your heads so deep in the sand you won't tolerate dissent from even one of your own.

 

[michael_holding]

the difference between a resume inflating non-h-1b and a resume inflating H-1b is simple it's lack of communication skills. An non-desi when cornered by a tricky question, will defty side step that with some gibberish that will make it sound like he has answered in a lengthy way. while a desi if he lacks communication skills and if he has accent manages to make it even worse. (in certain specific case, no generalization here, i know a lot of desis with excellent comm skills)
when any field is hot, people try to take advantage of it by positining themselves as experts or having knowledge in that area. its all about money.
need to make money is a basic human instinct that cuts across race, color,nationality.....

part of the problem was that IT market was so hot during the Y2k and .com boom you could get hired by just taking a phone interview. obviously some people repositioned themselves (euphemistically put). now the market has tightened up with clients emphasizing face to face interviews, i believe much of the embellishment has come down.
this kind of crap works everywhere.
Hiring an IT consultant is like going to a car dealer and buying a car, you have to do your homework, no matter who you are interviewing (H-1 , GC or citizen)

 

[blingdling]

over limit

I think people are going way over limits here. There is no need to talk about moral issues ("find a citizen wife") and other stuff especially pointing to persons.

 

[spulla]

Michael Holding,

Please check your PM.

Private Message and a public acknowledgement?

The whole premise for the Argument is so stupid. Trashing the life in US because of one stupid immigration process is pretty lame.

 

[saras76]

Again .. its a waste of time ...

Private Message and a public acknowledgement?

The whole premise for the Argument is so stupid. Trashing the life in US because of one stupid immigration process is pretty lame.

I think this quote pretty much sums up this discussuion -

"A great many people think they are thinking when they are just rearranging their prejudices."

The following quote is what we need to ponder .....

“It is what we make of what we have, not what we are given, that separates one person from another.”

regards,

saras

 

[GreenCardVirus]

I think this quote pretty much sums up this discussuion -

"A great many people think they are thinking when they are just rearranging their prejudices."

The following quote is what we need to ponder .....

“It is what we make of what we have, not what we are given, that separates one person from another.”

regards,

saras

Holier than thou?

Just kidding!!

 

[DeepPurple]

And again, the Lord giveth

techy,
Am I perfectionist? No. Do I expect someone who says they have 5 years of experience using a product to know what the hell they're doing from Day 1, without needing any assistance and without asking how do I log into the application? Uhmmm yeah, wouldn't you?
As for "as long as the work is done at the end of the day" mentality, sure as long as it's done, but also as long as it's done correctly, without having to redo it the next day.
Yes. 40 - 50 % is about right, meaning of course that the other 50% was just fine as I have stated a million times, ie not everyone falls into this category, just a good chunk.

to everyone else,
Go on believing what you want, you're all superstar, geniuses without whom the entire US economy would collapse. If that makes you sleep better at night, well OK why not? I tried to give you a different perspective from outside this echo chamber of "woe be me", "america is racist", "h1bs are prisoners" nonesense. Obviously you won't listen to anything that goes against your cemented thinking, and that's fine.
Good luck with your green cards.

One more time, me no English. Absolutely no English. But me thinks, when the lord said "Do I expect someone who sayS THEY have 5 years", he actually meant to say "Do I expect someone who SAY they have 5 years". Me thinks in English, there are things called plurals. And again, when the lord said "go on believing what you want, you're all SUPERSTAR, geniuses without whom.." , me thinks, he actually meant, "go on believing what you want, you're all superstarS, geniuses". You see, those damn plurals again.

But then me mind gets confused. Some where in his long and eloquent sermon to donkey...err..techy, the lord said the following golden words;
"Am I perfectionist? No. Do I expect someone who says they have 5 years of experience using a product to know what the hell they're doing from Day 1, without needing any assistance and without asking how do I log into the application? Uhmmm yeah,". Me understand that. So the lord expects anybody with 5 years of experience to have some knowledge about their domain. Me thinks that is reasonable, and the lord is being very noble that way. But then, me mind goes bonkers trying to find an answer to this nasty puzzle. Estimating the age of the lord at a very young and energetic 20, me thinks it is safe to say, that the lord has been using the English language for at least 16 or so years. Even with such vast and excellent experience, why is it that the lord can't post a simple four line message without errors?. Now that makes me mind totally nuts

Now, it is the time for today’s lesson
Step 1. Take your Oxiclean bottle
Step 2. Point the nozzle at your sweet behind, go on, don’t be shy.. do it..
Step 3. Squeeze the lever and spray freely
Step 4. Wipe away...

-Dp

PS: Dude, deflecting the heat by using big fuzzy terms like “racist”, “Enemy” will not get you anywhere. I love America and the freedom that America gave me, and that is the sole reason I’m still here. And I think 99.9% of the people on this board love America, except may be you!

 

[Pheno_Menon]

Very funny DeepPurple...I had a hearty laugh thinking how 'angy' he must be reading this. The 'Oxiclean' lessons will definitely make him behave in future.

eddie_d...one more BIG kick in your bu*t, anyways you're most welcome to post again in this forum as long as you can behave...grow up kid...we surely want to hear something different only when it is not an opinion from a self glorified moron...just shows how immature you are and please grow up...for your sake and ours...

 

[techy2468]

the one thing has become clear now.......when there is a controversy......most who talk dont have much of a balanced mind.........and those with balanced mind prefer to keep silence (or they are busy)......

so i guess it does not make much sense to carry any debate.....its like talking against the republicans in their own convention....