After the Aug Bull....Is still Ameriaca the Best

[indian_gc_ocean]

This is what I understood from eddie_d postings in various threads,

It does not matter if 50% of the H1s are good, because the other 50% is not that good and when the citizens are finding it difficult to get good jobs why should the current immigration process be changed.

Make your H1 stay(average 8 years) a memorable one and go back if you don't get greencard. Once you get the greencard we will have to compete with many of you. New H1 may be ok, because your opportunities are limited.

As long as you are on H1 or waiting for greencard, feel good that the US is giving you an opportunity to make more money than what you can in your home country.

Don't complain that immigration is slow, we are happy with that. Does not matter how long you stayed in the US you are just a temp as long as you are on H1(even if you are in fulltime job or a rocket scientist).

Most of the H1 are anyway indians (and chinese), H1 and indian are synonyms in my dictionary sometimes.

Now, lets focus on these topics and just drill ourselves to answer these politely.

 

[techy2468]

let me try to summarise Eddie's story and see if it makes sense:

1. some dudes came all the way to USA on fake resumes or without skill sets...
2. they managed to clear technical interviews or the companies were so desperate for cheap labor that they did not care for interviews
3. those companies some of them fortune 500, did not fire this sub quality people because they were very cheap, even though they could not get the job done.

does not make much sense, well...let me try again:

so companies hire people on H1b visa....who are not good.....but cheap....

how long will those companies keep these people???...2-3 months....

but mr. Eddie steps in ....and tries to milk the best he can of those bad quality people....he does fire some of them.....but because of management polcy he has to put up with most of them....

wow....it makes a bit of sense.......this becomes a issue of americans being poor in math.......why??.....because they think some one who costs just $45k/yr is cheaper than someone who cost $80/yr.....even though $45k takes twices as much time.....and very bad quality....

frankly i dont even know what the real deal is...

 

[michael_holding]

techy, if you remove indians from his post and replace with "some one " or "some dudes" it makes sense, but is that what he posted in the first place?

can't you see it for yourself?? i think you know very well what happened, i am not sure what are you justifying here....

 

[techy2468]

michael_holding.......i am trying to make sense of Eddie's stories....where he claims that H1B has led to sub-quality human resource being imported into usa.....because somehow that statement in itself is hard to digest.........because it is a proven fact that sub-quality but cheap never pays even in the short term(i mean why hire someone if they are not able to do the job or if they need twice as much time to do the job....).

i just choose to ignore eddie's comments about indian nationality....because it is just incidental that indians happen to be the majority in IT-H1B group....

 

[indian_gc_ocean]

michael_holding.......i am trying to make sense of Eddie's stories....where he claims that H1B has led to sub-quality human resource being imported into usa.....because somehow that statement in itself is hard to digest.........because it is a proven fact that sub-quality but cheap never pays even in the short term(i mean why hire someone if they are not able to do the job or if they need twice as much time to do the job....).

i just choose to ignore eddie's comments about indian nationality....because it is just incidental that indians happen to be the majority in IT-H1B group....

it makes lot of sense to me. in my personal experience, i have seen some companies recruit younger H1s and train them overtime and get rid of some seniors(either send them back to india or do a layoff). may be eddie_d too would have faced such situation. i thought about this question and wondered perhaps it is the top management that needs these new H1s time to time to safegaurd their positions, vacations, bonuses by cutting the average programmers salary. If look back, from the time of dot com slump, the average software professional pay is coming down but i would not bet the same for senior mangement, directors, exec directors, VP .... outsourcing, new H1 recruitment might help maintain their benefits.

 

[envision]

you know a sports radio guy in SFO lost his job or suspended (after the Giants manager complained) because he made some derogatory remarks like "brain dead carribean players"(referring to latino players with SFo giants). i guess the SFO giants manager should not have responded (by your logic) because he was not brain dead.
Chi white sox manager Ozzie guillen was ordered by baseball to take sensitivity training and suspended when he made comment about a newspaper reporter and gays.

Mr eddie while advising us about the truly American virtues of arguing without losing civility would do well to remind himself of another American virtue , that is not stereotyping...and not making ethnicity based remarks.

We (humans) are all capable of saying stupid, innapropriate things---- Why not report eddie_d's insults to the board monitors, or the administrator? Do you think mud slinging will solve the problem?

Anyway, I've actually heard worse from Indians who have already established their lives in the US . Many are quite upset with the influx of H1bs from India. I've even heard names like fresh off the boat when describing them

 

[GreenCardVirus]

H1B has led to sub-quality human resource being imported into usa.....

Over the years I have seen the same people who I thought were sub-par getting bigger pays, green cards, houses, stable jobs ..... that is life, doesnt matter if you do everything right, it only matters what you actually accomplished...

 

[CoolTiger]

Jo jeeta wahi sikandar jo hara woh bandar
(Its the guy who wins who conquers the World, the loser can only whine like a monkey)

 

[techy2468]

Over the years I have seen the same people who I thought were sub-par getting bigger pays, green cards, houses, stable jobs ..... that is life, doesnt matter if you do everything right, it only matters what you actually accomplished...

my experience has been its not what you accomplish......but what you get by the hands of fate that is choosing winners these days....


i may have hundred great business plans (i think they are good.. ).....but my friends who got lucky and got his GC or a good client or got married to a USC will have better chance in everything they will try...

oh well these will lead into another discussion about the role played by fate in our lives...

 

[michael_holding]

We (humans) are all capable of saying stupid, innapropriate things---- Why not report eddie_d's insults to the board monitors, or the administrator? Do you think mud slinging will solve the problem?

Anyway, I've actually heard worse from Indians who have already established their lives in the US . Many are quite upset with the influx of H1bs from India. I've even heard names like fresh off the boat when describing them

i know and have seen established Indians in USA getting jealous of competition. but just because Indians are saying does not mean someone else can say it. its like young African Americans (some of them) call each other using the "n" word, does that mean you and i can say it?
being a part of a certain community give you a licence (i guess..) to trash your own...people misuse it...
I do agree mud slinging is not going to solve the problem...

 

[michael_holding]

it makes lot of sense to me. in my personal experience, i have seen some companies recruit younger H1s and train them overtime and get rid of some seniors(either send them back to india or do a layoff). may be eddie_d too would have faced such situation. i thought about this question and wondered perhaps it is the top management that needs these new H1s time to time to safegaurd their positions, vacations, bonuses by cutting the average programmers salary. If look back, from the time of dot com slump, the average software professional pay is coming down but i would not bet the same for senior mangement, directors, exec directors, VP .... outsourcing, new H1 recruitment might help maintain their benefits.

see anyone who thinks these days that being a software engineer is like being a rocket scientist, really needs to take a moment from the monitor and look around. IT is becoming a commodity, in the end IT is a means to an end and not end itself. business have to spend on IT systems, that will enable them to sell soaps,diapers,aircraft,autos...efficiently...
until 4-5 yrs ago corporate IT cheifs were duped into spending millions for ERP packages, b2b, b2c...you name it packages. after the bust everyone realized that their getting robbed, clients started to turn the screws on these IT vendors, whose fat margins came under pressure, they have to cut costs, cut corners...now with the prelavence of IT in emerging economies, more and more people are going to be IT savvy, hence more people can enter labor force to do IT job, with the advent of braodband you will see more people with little english skills, but with aptitude for programming can sit in their home town and write code, who needs to be savvy in English to stand in the visa line to get a visa to come to USA to code. This is bad news for people here in developed economies who think their salaries are going to be higher and higher every year.
yes there is a market for higher pay, but only if that person can bring multiple skills to the table..its survival of the fittest, honestly those in the IT market in America are looking at it for the past few years, they have never faced such a situation before and everyone thought its their birth right to have an IT job with 100k salary.
this includes Indians with GC or US citizenships, many of them thought they have made it, but it still survival at your job here, if you can't get it done, someone else will from some other part of the world.

 

[AGC4ME]

see anyone who thinks these days that being a software engineer is like being a rocket scientist, really needs to take a moment from the monitor and look around. IT is becoming a commodity, in the end IT is a means to an end and not end itself. business have to spend on IT systems, that will enable them to sell soaps,diapers,aircraft,autos...efficiently...
until 4-5 yrs ago corporate IT cheifs were duped into spending millions for ERP packages, b2b, b2c...you name it packages. after the bust everyone realized that their getting robbed, clients started to turn the screws on these IT vendors, whose fat margins came under pressure, they have to cut costs, cut corners...now with the prelavence of IT in emerging economies, more and more people are going to be IT savvy, hence more people can enter labor force to do IT job, with the advent of braodband you will see more people with little english skills, but with aptitude for programming can sit in their home town and write code, who needs to be savvy in English to stand in the visa line to get a visa to come to USA to code. This is bad news for people here in developed economies who think their salaries are going to be higher and higher every year.
yes there is a market for higher pay, but only if that person can bring multiple skills to the table..its survival of the fittest, honestly those in the IT market in America are looking at it for the past few years, they have never faced such a situation before and everyone thought its their birth right to have an IT job with 100k salary.
this includes Indians with GC or US citizenships, many of them thought they have made it, but it still survival at your job here, if you can't get it done, someone else will from some other part of the world.

michael_holding, do u see how ur statements are contradictory. U say IT is now a commodity at the same time u say that all the b2b, b2c, ERPs(which make IT a commodity rather than tailored software) have failed.

In my own company we are trying to get a resource management system up and running for 3 years now. No luck. MSFT tried and failed and another company is doing it now and no luck there either. U know what, it has fallen on my shoulders to get a prototype up and running by the 18th. Hardware can be a commodity, some software might be but there are still mission critical systems that companies are better off not treating as commodity.

 

[michael_holding]

no agc, i hope i was contradicting, if one thing, i think i did not word the sentence properly. i think when the market went down after the .com bust most of the clients took a step back and started sifting hype from substance.
and quite honestly many of the fads and acronyms are nothing but old wine in new bottle.
i think that is what i meant.

i think there is always exceptions to the rule, but you raise a valid point about software. your company's case was the norm during the pre-y2k years when SAP was so hot, it took so long to implement and yet failed at many places.
i think it was a combination of factors, lack of implementation, host organization factors, lack of pure domain skills, vendors still fine tuning the product....
i think the industry has to mature to consolidate and give a commoditized software product with least amount of tweaking to get the business up and running...i believe most , if not all of the software will be commoditized.
but then again...from what i read from the so called experts that's what i gather...curious as to what you think.

i think we are all sheep...its a herd mentality...any new dawn brings with it a new "koolaid" in the form of an IT acronymn that we are made to drink...lets drink it and enjoy the rollercoaster...while we are at it.

 

[ufo2002]

The FOB (Fresh off the boat) issue isn't just in the Indian community, it's quite prevalent in most if not all Asian communities including Chinese, Filipino, Japanese, Koreans, Vietnamese, etc.
And it's not in the business fields that you see this "discrimination". I dated one local Asian girl for a very short while until she realised I am FOB.
I don't even try to look for Asian communities when I change addresses anymore... screw them.

We (humans) are all capable of saying stupid, innapropriate things---- Why not report eddie_d's insults to the board monitors, or the administrator? Do you think mud slinging will solve the problem?

Anyway, I've actually heard worse from Indians who have already established their lives in the US . Many are quite upset with the influx of H1bs from India. I've even heard names like fresh off the boat when describing them

 

[songlan]

off-topic: I thought FOB discrimination only happened in Vnmese community.
I found a sympathized understandings about H1B-retro situation from other H1B nationality, not from any Vnmese )

The FOB (Fresh off the boat) issue isn't just in the Indian community, it's quite prevalent in most if not all Asian communities including Chinese, Filipino, Japanese, Koreans, Vietnamese, etc.
And it's not in the business fields that you see this "discrimination". I dated one local Asian girl for a very short while until she realised I am FOB.
I don't even try to look for Asian communities when I change addresses anymore... screw them.

 

[chanduv23]

The FOB (Fresh off the boat) issue isn't just in the Indian community, it's quite prevalent in most if not all Asian communities including Chinese, Filipino, Japanese, Koreans, Vietnamese, etc.
And it's not in the business fields that you see this "discrimination". I dated one local Asian girl for a very short while until she realised I am FOB.
I don't even try to look for Asian communities when I change addresses anymore... screw them.

Tell us more about ur dating asian girls exploits while u were a FOB. This seemms interesting

 

[ufo2002]

It's in quite possibly every asian community you can think of. I got a filipino friend (he was born in Philipines) who told me the same thing... I got an Indian colleague in my current contract job who said that while he was living in Fremont (Bay Area, CA) that it was super difficult to get along with local born Indians. It's the difference in environment and possibly even culture (believe it or not) that makes this "prefer local" mentality among these communities.

Funny thing is, when I tell the retrogression story to my white friends, they are more sympathetic. One guy even told me to try sham-marriage trick to get the GC! Imagine a white citizen American telling me that!

off-topic: I thought FOB discrimination only happened in Vnmese community.
I found a sympathized understandings about H1B-retro situation from other H1B nationality, not from any Vnmese )

 

[AJVM]

I am very sorry to say that you are over reacting here.

You just came to US few months ago and are already pissed off?

People who are fed up are waiting for several years (most of them are several years just in I-485).

Apollo, you're rigth! I have been here since 1998, started my RIR in 2001... and here I am... still waiting... almost a year after my interview with an immigration officer. Sometimes I feel fed up but at least we are in the process.