After the Aug Bull....Is still Ameriaca the Best

My prediction for September VISA Bulletin

It will be "U" in all categories!!!. So just relax and go on vacation.In October visa bulletin we going to have in EB3 category - in the first row in which I'm intrested - December 2001; On November's visa bulletin - Nothing would change; December visa bulletin - January 2002 in EB3 first row. My PD is Oct. 2003 so in August 2008 I will have the chance to file - 485 AOS.So stick with that guys & girls and stop woring. There won't be any change in the policy or the visa numbers by the lawmakers etc.

Good day to all.

A hint from me: Keep the time frame real - and your wait will be pleacent.Don't anticipate the fantasy with reality!!!
 
HERNESTO....i agree with your idea of keeping the timeframe real.......in other words lower your expectations and plan accordingly....
 
eddie_d....i am aware of bloating resume to stay ahead and i do it all the time........but not so much that after getting the job i am unable to perform.....man thats stupid....

i am really surprised that you encountered so many cases....beleive me they are very rare....because no one likes getting fired after getting a job.

just out of curiosity is this all happening in the ast 12-18 months??.....i have a hunch that every tom-dick-harry in india is now preparing a IT resume to get a job, since they cannot get a job elsewhere.....and since demand is so much, most with good communication/bluffing skills are able to land a job..


if what you are saying are sporadic episodes in the last 5 years.....even then i am surprised at the quality of people you had to work with.....it definitely raises questions about your company its vendors or its HR people or its hiring policies...etc..
 
posmd said:
Whatever your rationale for defending doing things by falsifying CVs etc. Your tone almost sounds like that practice is the normal and accepted modus operandi. That is not right nor does it make you look good. I agree with eddie_d in one regard here, I would not discount the possibility that proportionately more Indians inflate their CV to "get ahead". In so doing that person might get a lucky break but unfortunately it feeds certain stereotypes. One look at the recent charge for EB2 petition conversion from EB3 shows that, I am sure some conversions were merited but just see the result EB2.............Unavailable.
Defending that practice is truly ridiculous. Likewise eddie_d generalising that practice as all Indian H1bs also is ridiculous.
Perhaps in my healthcare field some of these issues are much less prevalent as a result of the requirement for strict US certification and qualification. Since such a thing apparently does not exist in the IT fields these arguments might arise. Could you imagine the folly of a fake doctor coming from Timbuktu and claiming to be a cardiac surgeon!!! :eek:
It would be like a bad version of one of those Holliday inn Express ads!

Wrongdoing is wrongdoing ............full stop............and generalisations and stereotyping are pretty much always off base. Thats my 2 cents.
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Ja! You are right about that. Wrongdoing is wrongdoing. Then why not take Holday Inn to task? In a commodity market like IT, it is an unacknowledged and accepted practice. Maybe Eddie's experience was extreme - however, a little padding is totally accepted. In fact a little padding is always expected by the hiring managers and interviews and expectations are set accordingly. Let us see what are the opinions of other IT folks here. I agree though that I sure would avoid a fake doctor from timbuktu. But then doctors are not a commodity are they? Then - it proves my point.
 
Eddie

There are different levels of skill among H1-B IT professionals. In fact this is true for all IT people.

All businesses hire people to maximize their utility function.
E.g. if u need a simple html page why would u need a compiler expert? So low cost and low skill is good for the company here.
Similarly, for a chip designing company - you need highly skilled people with high salaries.

As far as resume inflation goes this seems to be a common practice in US, irrespective of H1B or nationality. I have personally screened resumes, interviewed over 200 candidates in last 2 years. This is for a highly coveted junior/mid-junior position. My experience shows that the resumes are polished to get an entry in for interviews and should be treated as such.
 
I don't usually respond to clueless self-styled idiot savants that do not know when not to butt in to conversations or when not to lodge their feet unnecessarily into either end of their own alimentary canals, but since you think I am sidelining issues, here goes.
What exactly were these relevant issues brought up by eddi_d other than blanket generalizations about lack of creativity in Indian H1Bs, folks inflating resumes etc, with successive posts going on to different arguments about why certain class of employees are inferior to another without really responding to the facts/opinions that some others are posting here?

Eddie_d, my point is this - not one of the distinguishing factors you mention is unique to any group. I have people working for, with and above me with a varity - Caucasian Americans, naturalized citizens of various origins, Indians and others on H1Bs, permanent residents from several places and what not - I am yet to see any real difference in any of the factors you mention between these groups - it always depends on the individual. Bottomline - cannot generalize - the majority of Indians that I know are as qualified, as creative, as entrepreneurial, as sensible and as morally upright as the next man or woman. If you still think ethnicity has anything to do with any of this, just go read up the publications on citeseer and look for "creativity, entrepreneurship and ethnicity" or "morality and ethnicity" -countless studies have been undertaken on these matters. As for your comments about falsification of resumes and CVs, look up the statistics, say at http://www.americandatabank.com/statistics.htm (and whoever does stuff like doctoring their CVs, these are plainly deplorable acts - no two ways about it.)


And blingdling, you have displayed an utter lack of any capability to discern the gist of what is being said by any one on these discussions. Now please be a good lad or lass or whatever and go look up "superficial" in the dictionary.

blingdling said:
samyami is full of crap. He is sidelining the issues eddie brought up and is shooting from the hip.

By the way, this particular thread has quite a bit of bad language... is there any award for that distinction? Maybe like an immediate I485 approval for the most foul mouthed thread! ah ha!
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eddie_d said:
Are you 12 years old? Jesus I have not seen such childish behvior in a long time.

I have known more Indian H1Bs than you could count, worked with them and supervised many of them them throughout many years at many companies in many industries. IN GENERAL they have all shared common traits in that they are below average with respect to their abilities to come up with creative thoughts, given a set of tasks will perform them well but need to be guided at every step along the way, almost all of them lie on their resumes, most are unhappy, mad at the world like you always bitching about something. But they are also cheap as s**t and so are tolerated by their employers. That is the fact of life for H1Bs.

If you work at some magical company where this isn't the case, good for you. You're the expetion that proves the rule.
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Me know no English. Me very poor in English. But me know this much, 'behvior' is no English word, neither is 'expetion'. And me think whoever writes this way and then claims to have supervised hundreds of below average people, is perhaps talking about some janitorial gig. And then me realize, the guy is probably telling the truth. May be he is in fact talking about his job!. No wonder! ;)
But me think, people should know that there's something called spell checker and use it before posting big words and making sweeping statements, because being an expert in "Oxiclean" usage does not mean that you can spell ‘expetion’ :D.
And, me has couple of questions, for which this poor, illiterate mind of mine has no answers. This person of great ability and fantastic talent said in his post that “all of them lie in on their resumes”.
Question 1) How does one lie “ON” one’s resume?
Question 2) Have times changed that much? Does one need to have a big resume for janitorial jobs?
 
DeepPurple....can we stop this language improvement....

as i had said to someone else.....we dont care about grammer, spelling on these forums......we have to spit as fast as possible and move on.....
 
Quod Erat Demonstrandum. Samyami is full of crap and is sidlining the issues and is shooting from the hip. If you "don't usually respond to blah blah....", please stay as your usual self.

Anyway. I doubt if it is anything to do with ethnicity - the resume doctoring thing. However, if Eddie D was born, educated and competed in India for the resources that there are, he would not have thought for a heart beat before doctoring his resume. If Ghana (or any other 3rd world country) had educated people like India has(assuming that Ghana has the same shortcomings as far as professional life goes), then Ghanaians would have felt the same about doctoring resumes.

About making "us look good": Someone said that I should shut up because admiting to doctoring resumes does not make me look good. That statement/perspective, my friend, is the pudding where you find the proof. It does not make me look good when I admit to doctoring my resume. An important corollary is my desire to make myself look good. Thats one factor that drives me to doctor my resume ! Does it not?

samyami said:
I don't usually respond to clueless self-styled idiot savants that do not know when not to butt in to conversations or when not to lodge their feet unnecessarily into either end of their own alimentary canals, but since you think I am sidelining issues, here goes.
What exactly were these relevant issues brought up by eddi_d other than blanket generalizations about lack of creativity in Indian H1Bs, folks inflating resumes etc, with successive posts going on to different arguments about why certain class of employees are inferior to another without really responding to the facts/opinions that some others are posting here?

Eddie_d, my point is this - not one of the distinguishing factors you mention is unique to any group. I have people working for, with and above me with a varity - Caucasian Americans, naturalized citizens of various origins, Indians and others on H1Bs, permanent residents from several places and what not - I am yet to see any real difference in any of the factors you mention between these groups - it always depends on the individual. Bottomline - cannot generalize - the majority of Indians that I know are as qualified, as creative, as entrepreneurial, as sensible and as morally upright as the next man or woman. If you still think ethnicity has anything to do with any of this, just go read up the publications on citeseer and look for "creativity, entrepreneurship and ethnicity" or "morality and ethnicity" -countless studies have been undertaken on these matters. As for your comments about falsification of resumes and CVs, look up the statistics, say at http://www.americandatabank.com/statistics.htm (and whoever does stuff like doctoring their CVs, these are plainly deplorable acts - no two ways about it.)


And blingdling, you have displayed an utter lack of any capability to discern the gist of what is being said by any one on these discussions. Now please be a good lad or lass or whatever and go look up "superficial" in the dictionary.
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Dear friends, let us be careful in using words like "Indians faking resume to get ahead" etc.... so many people visit these public forums and who knows anti immigrant groups are constantly monitoring these forums.
Though it is a universal fact that no resume is 100% perfect so is no system a 100% perfect. The most popular microsoft interview processes is also not 100% perfect.
Words like "Indians fake resumes". "change from eb3 to eb2 to get ahead in the line", " Desi consulting companies sell substituted labor","Do not pay proper wages", "Mexicans are illegals" etc... may be avoided these statements influence people in decision making. This is a major fact. Policies are framed with discussions that are held in closed rooms and these sort of things may reflect on discussions.
If we want to have healthy discussions about real life situations let us discuss them in private forums and not public forums.
For open and free talk, best thing is to have controlled access to private forums where people who know each other better can have a healthy discussion.
 
blingdling said:
Anyway. I doubt if it is anything to do with ethnicity - the resume doctoring thing. However, if Eddie D was born, educated and competed in India for the resources that there are, he would not have thought for a heart beat before doctoring his resume. If Ghana (or any other 3rd world country) had educated people like India has(assuming that Ghana has the same shortcomings as far as professional life goes), then Ghanaians would have felt the same about doctoring resumes.
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i would have to disagree here. imho, doctoring resume has nothing to do with india, ghana, or australia, third world, advanced, or its people, resources, competition, education system or ancestral history… it is based on the individual. selection based on just resume without verification is not always right.
 
chanduv23 said:
Dear friends, let us be careful in using words like "Indians faking resume to get ahead" etc.... so many people visit these public forums and who knows anti immigrant groups are constantly monitoring these forums.
Though it is a universal fact that no resume is 100% perfect so is no system a 100% perfect. The most popular microsoft interview processes is also not 100% perfect.
Words like "Indians fake resumes". "change from eb3 to eb2 to get ahead in the line", " Desi consulting companies sell substituted labor","Do not pay proper wages", "Mexicans are illegals" etc... may be avoided these statements influence people in decision making. This is a major fact. Policies are framed with discussions that are held in closed rooms and these sort of things may reflect on discussions.
If we want to have healthy discussions about real life situations let us discuss them in private forums and not public forums.
For open and free talk, best thing is to have controlled access to private forums where people who know each other better can have a healthy discussion.
Click to expand...


Couldn't agree more. See page 4 of this link, John Miano's testimony at a House hearing for "Is the U.S. doing enough to protect American workers?"

http://judiciary.house.gov/media/pdfs/miano062206.pdf

This anti-immigrant has quoted posts from THIS FORUM as if they were the general case. Posts from ImmigrationPortal are being used to argue that the H1B program is generally full of abuses. As I posted earlier, at least for myself and the people I know, that couldn't be further from the truth.

The reality is that this is a forum for people who have been waiting for a long time for their green cards, and these people will vent their frustrations with their job/employer/... on the forum. Someone who is busy and satisfied with his job isn't going to spend time posting about his satisfaction with life in general. But the negative posts are being used to make a general argument that the H1B program is flawed. Obviously this is not a scientific conclusion as you need a big random sample of H1B workers, not a few cherry-picked posts from Immigration Portal. But who is going to stop to think about these things?
 
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In fact, we must avoid showing frustrations and openness to our managers and collegues at work too because, who knows ... your own collegue maybe lobbying against h1b and you become a good example. He will write to his senator "your story" and how it is affecting his life etc...

Instead keep writing about achievements about h1bss and their contributions etc... keep concentrating on those and this will change the course of decision making and believe me decisions will be in favour of us. For eg.. 100 h1bs went to a village to do social work to show theiur gesture .... H1bs excelled in this and that ..... h1bs are pillars ertcc.....

These things attract public attention over a period of time.

Always remember, we are being punished as a group just because few are abusing the system and because of that we complain and vent frustrations and these are used against us only.

We can shift focus on "good aspects" :)
 
techy2468 said:
DeepPurple....can we stop this language improvement....

as i had said to someone else.....we dont care about grammer, spelling on these forums......we have to spit as fast as possible and move on.....
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Techy –whatever,
The point of my post was not to improve anybody’s language; it was merely an attempt to point out the fallacy in the arguments of a person who was making sweeping, generalized statements about a specific class of people (namely people of East Indian origin who are on H1Bs). Them who live in glass houses should not throw stones. So if one says that an entire set of people are below average and then goes on to write words like ‘behvior’, then you should be able to see the humor in that. Stop being so diplomatic and try to act like a politician. Sometimes you need to call a spade a spade. Somebody’s got to say that “THE EMPEROR HAS NO CLOTHES!”, don’t be so strung up to be PC, life is too short, enjoy it.
:)
 
Why are we wasting our time ..

Guys and Gals,

Why are we wasting time responding to useless posts by someone who has no clue about the people we are, what we represent and what our real problems are. We are falling into the trap of bickering amongst ourselves over over comments made by a guy whose GC will be handed to him within a year courtesy of his citizen wife. We need not pay attention to his baseless comments. There are so many better ways of wasting time :)

regards,

saras
 
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saras....we are just killing some time....nothing much......
and i think we should not dismiss anyone so easily......since he represents the other side of the fence....maybe most americans think like him, maybe we would have thought like that if we were americans.....why not....why shall i share my fortune with others.....i want 100k salary....i dont want competition....i dont want to work more than 40hrs/week on my career/job......if not for these damn foreigners all americans in It may have been making 200k+ (internet boom days...).

i really dont blame them for not being open minded.....i may have done what they are doing....its a human nature to make one's life easy........but the problem is that even they dont understand that business/gov dont care for common people....they care for their profit....and they will not think twice before outsourcing all jobs elsewhere...

definitely there are long term solutions(high school and college system) to improve america and use local people....but i am 100% sure nobody is going to work on that.......so the other option is to encourage good immigrants....but even that is caught in this political mess.
 
techy2468 said:
saras....we are just killing some time....nothing much......
and i think we should not dismiss anyone so easily......since he represents the other side of the fence....maybe most americans think like him, maybe we would have thought like that if we were americans.....why not....why shall i share my fortune with others.....i want 100k salary....i dont want competition....i dont want to work more than 40hrs/week on my career/job......if not for these damn foreigners all americans in It may have been making 200k+ (internet boom days...).

i really dont blame them for not being open minded.....i may have done what they are doing....its a human nature to make one's life easy........but the problem is that even they dont understand that business/gov dont care for common people....they care for their profit....and they will not think twice before outsourcing all jobs elsewhere...

definitely there are long term solutions(high school and college system) to improve america and use local people....but i am 100% sure nobody is going to work on that.......so the other option is to encourage good immigrants....but even that is caught in this political mess.
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in the same note -- well, the line between outsourceble jobs and non-outsourceble jobs is growing thin day by day. if a good guy goes away because of immigration problems, most likely a similar job would follow, but after sometime. i would say there is only a temporary relief because of immigration delays. well, i think when it comes to one's survival it does not really matter how much time the other person has spent in this country, where is his immigration status etc.. . just do not count much. if it is time to go it is time to go. thats what i learned from this discussion. a new guy can always be trained and used. but one thing is very clear finding a good job is going to be very difficult even if we wait to get a GC. it would not be actually finding it but absorbed into it. i am just waiting for those 40 SS credits, may be oneday it will be useful.
 
think techy... think...

techy2468 said:
saras....we are just killing some time....nothing much......
and i think we should not dismiss anyone so easily......since he represents the other side of the fence....maybe most americans think like him, maybe we would have thought like that if we were americans.....why not....why shall i share my fortune with others.....i want 100k salary....i dont want competition....i dont want to work more than 40hrs/week on my career/job......if not for these damn foreigners all americans in It may have been making 200k+ (internet boom days...).

i really dont blame them for not being open minded.....i may have done what they are doing....its a human nature to make one's life easy........but the problem is that even they dont understand that business/gov dont care for common people....they care for their profit....and they will not think twice before outsourcing all jobs elsewhere...

definitely there are long term solutions(high school and college system) to improve america and use local people....but i am 100% sure nobody is going to work on that.......so the other option is to encourage good immigrants....but even that is caught in this political mess.
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congrats techy...you just qualified as participant for the Jerry Springer show, I just cannot understand people bringing all their personal problems on national tv (public forum in your case) and expect others to sympathize with or help them. They even express their gratitude to such... By exposing all your problems and hardships thru several threads and in various dimensions you have helped create generalizations and opinions for strangers about Indians. I seriously think you need professional counselling for your inferiority complex issues. Rather do that to pass time.

We all know that the current system is broken because H1B, the grandfather policy, does not have per country quota whereas the GC policy does. People viewing and posting on this forum either have lived or living through this mess.

BTW, isn't eddie_d also a H1B. Is he also not stealing an otherwise american job by your definition. How can you imagine he thinks like an american being an immigrant himself. I think the alabama heat is getting into your head...go figure...
 
Techy,

Nice to see at least one voice of reason here who is willing to hear a point of view that is different.

The last incident I mentioned took place a liitle over a year ago but I encoutered this going well back.

And maybe I didn't make this clear enough, but not every Indian programmer I worked with was like that. There were two guys who worked with me that were superb and I still play golf with one of them whenever we're in the same city.

My overall personal experience with H1B and other such visas from Indian programmers has been quite dismal. This is not an indictment on Indians or India. It's an indictment on a system that allows many (not all) unqualified people to come here under the pretense of being knowledgable, experienced workers who in fact can barely turn on a computer in many instances.

And with regard to pay, man alive were some of them cheap, like $45,000 a year cheap compared to $100K for Americans (or at least GCs/citizens that didn't need any sponsorship). And of course the guy at the top who looked at that figured what the hell, as long as we get 75% of the work from h1b guy compared to the American guy, we're still coming out on top.

Finally, this is/was not at one company where you could say I was unlucky to encounter what I did and it was an anomaly. For 6 of the last 8 years I have worked in consulting. My experiences were at client sites; at Forune 500 clients, at .com start up clients and everything in between, northeast, south, California, Texas....everywhere and every industry. I sincerely doubt that every one of those places was an anomaly. If it was I was the unluckiest SOB to ever walk the planet.



techy2468 said:
eddie_d....i am aware of bloating resume to stay ahead and i do it all the time........but not so much that after getting the job i am unable to perform.....man thats stupid....

i am really surprised that you encountered so many cases....beleive me they are very rare....because no one likes getting fired after getting a job.

just out of curiosity is this all happening in the ast 12-18 months??.....i have a hunch that every tom-dick-harry in india is now preparing a IT resume to get a job, since they cannot get a job elsewhere.....and since demand is so much, most with good communication/bluffing skills are able to land a job..


if what you are saying are sporadic episodes in the last 5 years.....even then i am surprised at the quality of people you had to work with.....it definitely raises questions about your company its vendors or its HR people or its hiring policies...etc..
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At least we all know what your true feelings for America are. I ask again why would you want to be a permanent resident of such an awful place? Really makes no sense.

And as for my H1B status, my company got it for me after I was in the US. I was working on a TN visa, they asked if I wanted an H1B I said sure, why not and a few weeks later I got a fedex at home with my 797 piece of paper and an H1B. To tell you the truth for the longest time I thought H1B was only for India and China, I had never met anyone else (knowingly) from another country with it.

And besides it is irrelevant as to what my immigration status is.

Pheno_Menon said:
congrats techy...you just qualified as participant for the Jerry Springer show, I just cannot understand people bringing all their personal problems on national tv (public forum in your case) and expect others to sympathize with or help them. They even express their gratitude to such... By exposing all your problems and hardships thru several threads and in various dimensions you have helped create generalizations and opinions for strangers about Indians. I seriously think you need professional counselling for your inferiority complex issues. Rather do that to pass time.

We all know that the current system is broken because H1B, the grandfather policy, does not have per country quota whereas the GC policy does. People viewing and posting on this forum either have lived or living through this mess.

BTW, isn't eddie_d also a H1B. Is he also not stealing an otherwise american job by your definition. How can you imagine he thinks like an american being an immigrant himself. I think the alabama heat is getting into your head...go figure...
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