Yahoo: Legal Immigrants to US face GC logJam

[hipka]

this will change and is happening already;


but that talent is now coming from other countries. So US is getting talent+diversity. if GC numbers go waste in a year, then you will be proved right.

If you exclude India,China,Mexico and Phillipines, you are leaving out 1/3rd of world population and 1/3 of worlds engineering graduates. Also students from europe/japan don't consider US as their #1 option. So if US is unattractive to these 4 countries there is loss of talent.

 

[indian_gc_ocean]

I am not working with a consulting firm. If I were, I would be really upset as I know lot of them take good advantage of GC situation and offer less pay/billing rate. Funny that you mentioned, our company does have an offshore office (bangalore) and we make periodic visits but, none of us are offered an offshore position (at least not yet). Probably because they think we are more needed here than in India as our company is not that big.

ok, by your quote "I know lot of consulting firms do" i thought you work for consulting.

Anyway, your posting seemed too optimistic and soothing for a guy stuck with country quotas and retrogression. I just quoted to say how dangerous the temporary worker attitude is towards a H1. Over the last few years I have seen how many people who thought they would never be effected were finally effected. If we are too complacent with the situation believing that uscis is working on the system and do not plan accordingly we will be in a shock one day both from the uscis and also from the companies.

 

[tusharvk]

but these 4 countries are not excluded; they are getting GCs upto the country-limit. after the country limit has been reached, are the numbers going waste? I do not think they are.

If you exclude India,China,Mexico and Phillipines, you are leaving out 1/3rd of world population and 1/3 of worlds engineering graduates. Also students from europe/japan don't consider US as their #1 option. So if US is unattractive to these 4 countries there is loss of talent.

 

[GCInThisLife]

I think it is not about being too optimistic, it is mainly setting our own expectations. If I know being from India, my GC takes at least 4 years, then I would plan accordingly. Currently, the reason I am not that happy (I assume many are in the same situation) is when I was applying for GC most people were getting GCs in around 2 years (at least in my company) and I expected that I would get mine in 3 years. So, I filed for my GC 2 years into H1B keeping 1 year buffer and planned rest accordingly assuming that I would get GC before my 6 years is over. Now I am on extensions and I still have no clue how long it is going to take.

Say- now, if I know my labor/perm takes 4 months + I140 (6 months) + I485 (depends on the country and EB category - say for EB2 India it is 3 years)+buffer, I would know that it takes around 4 years give or take a few months. So, I would stop thinking and trying to track/guess progress on dialy/weekly basis.

This is kind of difficult to achieve overall, but I think we can now predict Perm and I140 with reasonably well. However I do not think USCIS bothers about retro countries and only consider 'normal' processing times while estimating and publishing system efficiency.

ok, by your quote "I know lot of consulting firms do" i thought you work for consulting.

Anyway, your posting seemed too optimistic and soothing for a guy stuck with country quotas and retrogression. I just quoted to say how dangerous the temporary worker attitude is towards a H1. Over the last few years I have seen how many people who thought they would never be effected were finally effected. If we are too complacent with the situation believing that uscis is working on the system and do not plan accordingly we will be in a shock one day both from the uscis and also from the companies.

 

[GreenCardVirus]

If you want to get their attention and get them on your side, you have to point out something that directly affects Americans.

Like a scientist at a drug company leaving the country because his green card is taking so long, so the drug company suspends work on the drug he was developing and lays off the Americans who were working under him.

I think you got it wrong here. You think the American immigration system is stupid enough to let go of people who actually matter? That is why they created EB categories, special quotas for special people etc. The scientist you mentioned would never have to file for Labor and his EB1 category would never be retrogressed.

Most people who are suffering now are in the lower end of the job spectrum. People like programmers though still highly paid are no more sought after commodity. They are highly paid because they are dispensible after the job is done.

 

[andy garcia]

I think you got it wrong here. You think the American immigration system is stupid enough to let go of people who actually matter? That is why they created EB categories, special quotas for special people etc. The scientist you mentioned would never have to file for Labor and his EB1 category would never be retrogressed.

Most people who are suffering now are in the lower end of the job spectrum. People like programmers though still highly paid are no more sought after commodity. They are highly paid because they are dispensible after the job is done.

You are absolutely right.
That is the key:Most people who are suffering now are in the lower end of the job spectrum. People like programmers though still highly paid are no more sought after commodity. They are highly paid because they are dispensible after the job is done

They can always get some new H1's and use them as required.

 

[GreenCardVirus]

The divide is also in values. Think/talk/walk/act like typical American and you will come close to be considered one of them (play golf, watch college football, go for drinks on Thursdays; have cook-outs, etc.). Unfortunately, what I have seen is many of the immigrants do not assimilate themselves to this

Mahatma Gandhi: "Adaptability is not imitation. It means power of resistance and assimilation"

I have lived and worked in many regions of America over past 10 years. I see lot of truth in the quote above.

 

[hipka]

I think you got it wrong here. You think the American immigration system is stupid enough to let go of people who actually matter? That is why they created EB categories, special quotas for special people etc. The scientist you mentioned would never have to file for Labor and his EB1 category would never be retrogressed.

Most people who are suffering now are in the lower end of the job spectrum. People like programmers though still highly paid are no more sought after commodity. They are highly paid because they are dispensible after the job is done.

Unfortunately this type of thinking has crept into USCIS. As I mentioned before brilliant young people are being affected by retrogression. How do you expect a fresh graduate, even from a top college to apply on EB-1? Does this mean he/she does not matter?
He/She might go on in future to become a CEO or scientist. Even if retrogression does not drive him out of the US, it gives such a bad impression of life in the country that he might be tempted to go elsewhere. Do you think this person can become a patriotic citizen, after this treatment?
So the argument that top people are not affected is completely false. Retrogression infact is nipping talent in the bud.

 

[where_is_my_gc]

I think you got it wrong here. You think the American immigration system is stupid enough to let go of people who actually matter? That is why they created EB categories, special quotas for special people etc. The scientist you mentioned would never have to file for Labor and his EB1 category would never be retrogressed.

Most people who are suffering now are in the lower end of the job spectrum. People like programmers though still highly paid are no more sought after commodity. They are highly paid because they are dispensible after the job is done.

In my opinion, EB categories may succeed to some extent in filtering the right people for the US economy as per the measures defined, but it will never be the definitive solution. I have seen several instances where person didn't choose to be Phd or scientist but still go on to become one like them gathering experience. And, also the cases where a Phd defied the whole process and still succeeded to become a GC holder.

I hail from a wonderful institute IIT Powai and I can cite you several examples including JEE 1 ranked person and several others who didn't opt even for MS, applied for GC in lower category EB3 because of bachelors degree, waited just couple yrs and left for good. For them GC was never a striking force which would have determined their future career course.

The fact is US did loose them. These news don't come into papers or reuters feeds. At the same time, I don't have to mention here that it takes only couple like them to turn around a successful company with the likes of yahoo-google or may be lesser successful ones feeding the masses - both businesses and individuals.

It's only been 5-7 yrs since the actual internet revolution and there's plenty more to come. Just wait and watch.

 

[indian_gc_ocean]

i think the point greencardvirus making is that all of us do not have to make huge promises to hightlight our plight, people should understand that this is an employment based greencard system having different categories and any wait beyond a reasonable time should be understood that the system is not correct and the person is put to hardships. To an extent i agree with him.

 

[saras76]

Exactly ...

i think the point greencardvirus making is that all of us do not have to make huge promises to hightlight our plight, people should understand that this is an employment based greencard system having different categories and any wait beyond a reasonable time should be understood that the system is not correct and the person is put to hardships. To an extent i agree with him.

indian_gc_ocean,

You are absolutely right. We need to understand that the current situation is a combination of bad policies, over subscription from certain categories, flawed system and usual government inefficiencies. There is no point in trying to highlight these again and again. We can try and educate law makers (maybe) but harping on these problems is counter productive. I know its hard to not complain but there is very little point to it. Its better to understand our situation and make the best possible decisions for ourselves (whatever that may be). There is no one size fits all solution here. We just need to make the most of our situation and debate ways in which we can make our immigrant experience better.

cheers,

saras

 

[hipka]

i think the point greencardvirus making is that all of us do not have to make huge promises to hightlight our plight, people should understand that this is an employment based greencard system having different categories and any wait beyond a reasonable time should be understood that the system is not correct and the person is put to hardships. To an extent i agree with him.

And what I am trying to say is that loss of talent is a valid and powerful argument against retrogression, which should be used when we write to employers, senators etc. Does any one disagree?

 

[hipka]

indian_gc_ocean,

You are absolutely right. We need to understand that the current situation is a combination of bad policies, over subscription from certain categories, flawed system and usual government inefficiencies. There is no point in trying to highlight these again and again. We can try and educate law makers (maybe) but harping on these problems is counter productive. I know its hard to not complain but there is very little point to it. Its better to understand our situation and make the best possible decisions for ourselves (whatever that may be). There is no one size fits all solution here. We just need to make the most of our situation and debate ways in which we can make our immigrant experience better.

cheers,

saras

If you are quite happy with the situation please leave the debate, the rest can try and see what we can do about it.

 

[desi3933]

can of worms

And what I am trying to say is that loss of talent is a valid and powerful argument against retrogression, which should be used when we write to employers, senators etc. Does any one disagree?

This is a flawed arguement. Do you have any facts and/or number to justify what you claim to be "loss of talent"?

Would you please answer my one question? Employment based green card is employer based, then why many people talk of leaving employer? It seems that they will do anything to get GC and planning to leave employer even BEFORE GC? Isn't this exploitation of the system? I think this should be corrected too. Not just the things that affect you personally.

 

[Jackolantern]

Would you please answer my one question? Employment based green card is employer based, then why many people talk of leaving employer? It seems that they will do anything to get GC and planning to leave employer even BEFORE GC? Isn't this exploitation of the system? I think this should be corrected too. Not just the things that affect you personally.

That's part of the problem... employMENT based doesn't mean it has to be employER based like it is in the current system. As with other countries, it can be tied to the worker who can move from company to company during the process. So employment-based immigration would become a means to fulfill skills needed by the country, not something to benefit specific employers.

 

[desi3933]

That's part of the problem... employMENT based doesn't mean it has to be employER based like it is in the current system. As with other countries, it can be tied to the worker who can move from company to company during the process. So employment-based immigration would become a means to fulfill skills needed by the country, not something to benefit specific employers.

Employment based green card is employer specific, but allows moving to another same/similar job on AC-21. The problem is that some people want GC with of the option of work anywhere during GC process. I think that is big change and will open other loop holes in the system.

Why some people talk of leaving employer even BEFORE getting green card? To me, the intent of working for the sponsoring employer was not there. This should be corrected too.

 

[GaramChai2go]

That's part of the problem... employMENT based doesn't mean it has to be employER based like it is in the current system. As with other countries, it can be tied to the worker who can move from company to company during the process. So employment-based immigration would become a means to fulfill skills needed by the country, not something to benefit specific employers.

This is America. It will always be employer based unlike Canada.

 

[saras76]

Pure capitalism ..

That's part of the problem... employMENT based doesn't mean it has to be employER based like it is in the current system. As with other countries, it can be tied to the worker who can move from company to company during the process. So employment-based immigration would become a means to fulfill skills needed by the country, not something to benefit specific employers.

Jacklolantern,

The system is fully reflective of "Pure Capatalism" that has made the US a super power. Employers reign supreme here and will continue to do so. Is it necessarily fair to all, no way, but does it benefit the US, yes.

The retrogression problem will not last long enough to actually impact the US in anyway. As soon as companies realize that they are actually losing talent, enough pressure will be put in place to get a bill passed. The fact of the matter is that US companies could care less for EB3 and EB2 retrogression for Indian nationals. Most of them are concerned with us making it to work and being productive. Retrogression has no effect on that. Infact it increases the chances of the employee sticking around and not bolting to another firm. Unless this retro is seen as a real problem that affects US/Employer interests, very little will be done.

cheers,

saras

 

[Jackolantern]

Jacklolantern,

The system is fully reflective of "Pure Capatalism" that has made the US a super power. Employers reign supreme here and will continue to do so. Is it necessarily fair to all, no way, but does it benefit the US, yes.

You forget to account for two factors that hurt employers.

(1) Other employers have less opportunity to get somebody who is in a degenerate company and hire them into a more profitable position, because they are stuck with or afraid to leave their employer due to the possible risk of having to restart the GC process.

(2) Companies are restricted from promoting people, because doing so may violate the same/similar criteria. So their employees' talent is underutilized.

But I agree that employers in general don't see good enough reasons to expedite the process, because in the short-term they benefit from employees who are stuck, and they won't know about the talented people who bypassed USA altogether and went straight to Canada/Europe/Australia due to the sluggish GC process in the USA.

 

[saras76]

Yes ..

You forget to account for two factors that hurt employers.

(1) Other employers have less opportunity to get somebody who is in a degenerate company and hire them into a more profitable position, because they are stuck with or afraid to leave their employer due to the possible risk of having to restart the GC process.

(2) Companies are restricted from promoting people, because doing so may violate the same/similar criteria. So their employees' talent is underutilized.

Jackolantern,

I am with you my friend and understand that these policies do hurt employers in the long run but I don't think they are considered serious enough to take action. Not just yet anyway.

I think everyone is getting the wrong impression that I am okay with the current situation. I am totally against it. However, over the past year I have lost a little hope for any immediate relief after considering all of the things we are up against. It can be viewed as a pessimistic attitude but it is based on real situations on the ground. I continue to support every effort to bring relief and educate employers but have found that everyone is very receptive while they are listenting to our plight but they do not consider it important enough to take immediate action. In their view, there are way to many pressing issues that need immediate attention. I also feel that immigration in general (legal and illegal) is increasingly being viewed as a negative thing and this is more bad news for us. Its a shame but its true in most cases ...

cheers,

saras