Yahoo: Legal Immigrants to US face GC logJam

[alexberg]

Well Alex, you fail to realize that H-1B (Temporary) is a non-immigrant visa with dual-intent (intent to migrate). If It wasn't the case, I wouldn't have spent 7 years of my life in this country to make my life better. 'nuf said

I totally understand that little fact, which gave me the opportunity to get my labor certified while enjoying my sixth H1B year. I can also relate to your urge to make your life better, we all suffer from that. All I said is the article is stupid, counterproductive, poorly sourced... all the worse. It looks like a marketing press release written by a literate person, completely disconnected from the topic.

 

[sfmars]

dual intent is illusion

fail to realize that H-1B (Temporary) is a non-immigrant visa with dual-intent (intent to migrate). If It wasn't the case, I wouldn't have spent 7 years of my life in this country to make my life better. 'nuf said

If you say something like that in US consulate, in your original country, when you applied (first time) for US H1B visa stamp in passport (to enter US the first time) that you have intention to apply for green card most probably you would not have chance to get that stamp.

I think that many of us (H1B people) had instructions from employers/petitioners to insure US consul that we are coming to US for the short projects only.

 

[nj_skm]

nj_skm,

I agree with most of what you said and also agree with the point that it is our choice to stay here, it should be only our choice.

This is my point, when H1 is a temporary worker, why the corporates take them for full-time permanent jobs -- because law allows them. For me it looks like a flaw in the system. It has become very advantageous and easy for the corporates and people now a days to point out that H1 is a temporary worker even after working in a full-time job for 6-7 seven years. How would one feel if one has to leave the country after being in a job for 9 years, because he is a temporary worker.

The whole idea of hiring a temporary worker to full-time job is because the company can process greencard or make him permanent. If that greencard process is stalled after say 9 years and that person has to leave the country, it is fine if he highlights his plight. Sympathise them atleast if not branding them as temporary, because they never worked temporary.

I agree there are flaws in the system.
Till date there has been no flawless legal system and as long as we follow a system of written laws there never will be.
I think most frustrations here arise out of an expectation of 'fair play'. This is the "take from daddy" syndrome. It simply ain't gonna happen.

My bottom line is, I know it's frustrating (I'm from India and stuck in EB2) and watching others "buy" LCs and get ahead and get the GC only makes us cynical in terms of respecting the law.
However, be a little philosophical, be a little practical, be a lot cheerful and keep your wits around you.
Don't let this wait and frustration get the better of you and poison your life.

It's been an interesting and worthless discussion.

nj_skm

 

[alterego2]

If you say something like that in US consulate, in your original country, when you applied (first time) for US H1B visa stamp in passport (to enter US the first time) that you have intention to apply for green card most probably you would not have chance to get that stamp.

I think that many of us (H1B people) had instructions from employers/petitioners to insure US consul that we are coming to US for the short projects only.

What you have said is a load of BS. H1b is dual intent and every immigration officer knows that.
Explain then why when one has a 140 approved and goes in for a h1b stamp(restamp for renewal) there is usually no problem. According to your theory the officer would deny the petition on the basis of demonstrated intent right?
On the other hand if you have an approved or pending 140 and go in requesting a L1 or J1 visa then you are in for a denial frequently. H1B IS DUAL INTENT.

 

[sfmars]

What you have said is a load of BS. H1b is dual intent and every immigration officer knows that.
Explain then why when one has a 140 approved and goes in for a h1b stamp(restamp for renewal) there is usually no problem. According to your theory the officer would deny the petition on the basis of demonstrated intent right?
On the other hand if you have an approved or pending 140 and go in requesting a L1 or J1 visa then you are in for a denial frequently. H1B IS DUAL INTENT.

Just open your eyes and read carefully what I said: (first time) for US H1B visa stamp in passport (to enter US the first time)

It is not the same like someone is looking revalidation of visa stamp having I140 approved.

H1b is dual intent and every immigration officer knows that.

Where did you get this information that every immigration officer knows that ? If you can not provide valuable source the BS is coming from you.

 

[marlon2006]

A different perspective

Hello everyone,

I think the article is mainly constructive for H1B Mr. and Mrs. Limbo of our times or future fellow workers who aspire to come to the US on H1B or similar. That can be useful to alert us and make us think whether living a half-life in the US is a feasible option.

The sad truth is that 90% of employers who use our work love to read this article and see the outcome of our twaddle immigration situation. The remaining 10% of other employers and US citizens alike may read the article and recognize that this country could make a better use of our talent, but honestly Americans have bigger and better issues to worry about than guest-workers who are complaining to get permanent residency here. Moreover, one of the main reason for that lack of sympathy towards our cause is that the illegal immigration population bad impressions spilled over and affected us. There is an increasing immigration unfriendly atmosphere here in America, and therefore we should not count on major changes on our behalf. However, it seems that there is some movement towards the SKIL bill and I hope that one advances accordingly.

I wish you all the best. More and more I see that I am lucky to get this process defined and I wish you should see a light coming on your way shortly.

Regards,

Marlon

Going back to the original article. We have a guy who says he wasted nine years of his life trying to get permanent residence after arriving here as a temporary worker.

Let's imagine for a moment that I am Tom, Dick or Harry somewhere in US reading the article in my favorite Tribune while getting some rest during my evening visit to the restroom. My cousin Larry is in military and could get killed fighting for my freedom and the freedom of that ungrateful MF who spent the last nine years working some office job while I spent my years looking at my shrinking paycheck, working two jobs and spending minutes with my kids.

After reading this article I would say "f*ck this MF, take him by the ears, put him on the first ship that will take him back where he came from and do not let him, his family, friends or anyone else from his stinking country of origin ever step on the holly land of the new world or bread the air of freedom and democracy."

If, on the other hand, the Arizona guy who wasted nine years of his life had said something like: "I acquired some skills that have been in demand lately and that gave me the opportunity to spend the last nine years in this beautiful country. I learned to like the little things that used to get on my nerves and the things I liked originally I like even better. I keep working hard, I try to augment my knowledge, my company invested in me and my skills, my kids are growing proud... but somehow I feel that my spouse and I can do even more for this country - due some legal limitations my wife is not able to join the work force and this country is not using the years she spent getting her MA degree. I wanted to start a small business with a couple of my friends that would employ at least a dozen of people after a year, but I was not able to", etc... then I would, from my evening pedestal, scream 'ECCE HOMO' and maybe tell my lady about that pour guy who wants so badly to be one of us, but the stupid system will not let him.

My point? The article is stupid and it targets always-ohh-so-sad-poor-H1B's. It can cause damage and it should not be forwarded around.

Ask yourself - "honestly, why do I want to become a PR or citizen? Why do I deserve to become one?"
And then try to imagine yourself being a citizen and listening to the answer.

Finally, my first name is not Tom, Dick, Harry or Alex. alexberg is just an alias I picked when I signed up for some service on the day I saw that Nicholas Berg guy die, while I was thinking of his poor mother. I am affected by retrogression, stuck in the process, blahblah.

 

[nyc8300]

Everything's Good!

Let's not work on negatives in the article
The good parts of the article are
-Highlights the issues with a non AILA agenda
-Highlights the problems to prospective H-1 guys in case they look to be permanent residents.


In any case, the bottom line is if you are earning a lot for yourself and can then save it from IRS or you are an illegal you are good. Anything else just not make much change to one's standard of living....

 

[TheElusiveGC]

It was interesting to read some *wise* guys commenting on the comments attributed to the person in that article. C'mon people, the man slogged for 9 years in hopes of getting it some day. 9 years is long enough to drive any sane person over the cliff. On the other hand did the wise men commenting bout him consider how much of those comments came from that person and how much was invented by the reporter to make the article colorful.

 

[michael_holding]

seems to me that this alexberg nick could be a US citizen, venting his anger against immigrants...who knows....

 

[WellWisher007]

I totally agree with your objective analysis, UN.

disclaimer; i did not read the article in the first thread.


sfmars, I think when you first came to USA; h-1b visa was not dual intent.

I believe it changed in 1998 or 1999


Problem with employment base greencard as it is; is that it is not within business reality.

In this day and age there is no such thing as "permanent job". Sure the job may be permanent in nature in that it will exist when you leave or not and they will replace you with someone else.

However, most people with less then 10 years of experience will jump/hop/skip jobs. I saw so many resumes of Americans who had five years of experience or so and they were already on their third job. Although market pressures, etc. dictate salary and turnover; people who are going for greencards are stuck in that they are not able to enjoy the market realities.

One thing people lose sight of is that a company doesn't have to sponsor you for a greencard. There are many, many established american companies who have a no h-1b sponsorship rule and if they do sponsor h-1b they will not do a greencard.

In my mind a big problem is h-1b. Look at nurses; reason they have a special quota is because they can't get a temporary visa to work as a nurse. Since the only way they can come to USA is through permanent residency then they become schedule a and have special quota for them. If h-1b didn't exist and the only way people can get permanent residency is through greencard then you'll see tremondous pressure by employers to increase the quota and make getting the greencard really streamlined. However, not many companies will sponsor you for a greencard if you are outside the country.

Since most employers can get people in h-1b and everyone on h-1b generally jumps around employers; the employers know that people aren't going to stick around for many years; they are not conducisve to change anything because at the first sign someone can leave then they will.

Think of the majority of discussions on these immigration boards. It is all surrounded by when can I leave my sponsor. Most of the discussions are generally against the concept of employment base greencard.

Everyone talks from the heart of how it is impacting them. Although Americans are compassionate (actually most people are compassionate) there isn't any compassion in employment base greencard, It is employer base system; always has been and probably always will be. It is simply employer can't find someone and they need you. If employers keep getting burned by people leaving too quickly they are not condusive to try to change the system.

 

[sfmars]

disclaimer; i did not read the article in the first thread.


sfmars, I think when you first came to USA; h-1b visa was not dual intent.

I believe it changed in 1998 or 1999

UN,

I think that definition of H1B as dual-intent was invented by immigration lawyers but it is not official USCIS definition of H1B. In one of my posts I said myself that 10-15 years ago H1B was only visa which allowed individual to be filed for green card (if he/she was not refugee looking for political asylum) it is not like today.
However I hardly can imagine situation when individual the first time applying for H1B visa stamp in his original country US consulate saying that his real intention to get green card.

Look at nurses; reason they have a special quota is because they can't get a temporary visa to work as a nurse. Since the only way they can come to USA is through permanent residency then they become schedule a and have special quota for them.

What kind of problems do you see for nurses to get H1B visa ?
Majority of them have Bachelors degree or foreign equivalent.

I personally know cook who works on H1B visa, and I know kindergartener who has H1B and it is her only job here.

 

[alexberg]

right on the money

seems to me that this alexberg nick could be a US citizen, venting his anger against immigrants...who knows....

Seems to me that you got hooked on Fox News. "Is he a sick bastard? probably not, but it is a question worth asking."

If I were an angry citizen the stupid article would make me happy. At least one ungrateful SOB is gone. Actually, if I believed that is really the case I would see it as a good news regardless of my status.

 

[docboston]

The article just puts in print what most of us are expiriencing. No factual inacuracies in it.
Alex,I think, is misjudging the average american Tom, dick and Harry. The average Tom voted in the democrats, thereby making comprhensive immigration reform a matter of certainity in the coming year.The avergae Dick is more pissed of by the illegals coming over the border and not by legals going through the system and waiting their turn. And the average harry with his cousin in baghdad, probably looks at porn in the Loo, rather than read about obscure immigration articles on yahoo news

 

[sfmars]

Do you guys really think the average american cares about immigration.

They care, most of them hate immigrants. Some americans do not care but better prefer to sweep them out of the country.

Do you think there is no support for such congressmen like Tancredo ?
http://tancredo.house.gov/
http://tancredo.house.gov/irc/impacts.html

Look here this web site is even better, it shows real attitude of americans to H1B program.

http://www.zazona.com/

It is wrong impression they do not care.

Again they hate H1B and all green card people.

Nursing job doesn't require bachelors degree.

The only shortage in US is the shartage of Certified nurses. The job of Certified nurse requires Bachelor's degree, it is the nurse which can replace doctor sometime. Some people associate dirty medical job with nurses, that job is done in hospitals by nurse assisatants.

Nurse in hospital is privileged category, some hospitals fire doctors to hire nurses. Average salary of the Certified nurse is ~150K in any location of US.
http://www.salary.com

 

[envision]

I agree with un to some extent. I've been in this country for donkey years, and I can tell you that up to a few years ago most Americans did not know what a greencard was

The average American (i'm talking middle class here) lives in a small town near a big city. It is usually all white; they try to get away from the african americans, get their kids in better schools, their grocery stores are all white, the restaurants, night clubs they go to don't have any hint whatsoever of immigrants, legal or illegal.

This is not entirely true. Every small town has people of color whether the average American likes it or not. You need to come down to the south of all places (where racism still exists) un . So maybe they don't socialize with people of color, but they can't get away from them as far as stores, schools etc are concerned.

 

[ufo2002]

They care, most of them hate immigrants. Some americans do not care but better prefer to sweep them out of the country.

Do you think there is no support for such congressmen like Tancredo ?
http://tancredo.house.gov/
http://tancredo.house.gov/irc/impacts.html

Look here this web site is even better, it shows real attitude of americans to H1B program.

http://www.zazona.com/

It is wrong impression they do not care.

Again they hate H1B and all green card people.

The mid-term elections say otherwise, sfmars.
Most of the congressmen/senators who were strongly anti-immigration (whether it be illegal or legal) were booted out of office. The issue of immigration didn't factor in as a top 3. If the average american really hates immigrants, they certainly seem to have re-ordered their priorities for the next 4 years.

 

[hipka]

USCIS took down the appeals office decisions. One of the links was for h-1b denials.

Over and over again h-1b's were denied for nurses because nurses don't require a bachelors degree.

Some times people who make a lot of noise are deemed to be the majority opinion. There is going to be people against h-1b and immigrants in general.

However; most people do not care. It is not on their radar one bit. It is such a small issue to the average american that doesn't even make their list of things to worry about.

It has mainly become a hot topic because of the protests by the illegals and now the legals are starting to contact newspapers, etc.

The average American (i'm talking middle class here) lives in a small town near a big city. It is usually all white; they try to get away from the african americans, get their kids in better schools, their grocery stores are all white, the restaurants, night clubs they go to don't have any hint whatsoever of immigrants, legal or illegal.

They do not come anywyere near immigrants in their daily lives. Once illegal or poor legal immigrants or poor people in general start moving into their cities, start going to their schools, their grocery stores, etc. and start bringing their standard of living down then they will start having an opinion. However, they have insulated themselves to not come near poor people (suburban flight by white americans was termed "white flight" to the suburbs.

It is really naive to think the average American is passionate on this topic. They have many other things they want to think about.

What you are saying is true, but only for some parts of the US. If you go to NJ, the suburbs have many immigrants and there is no place for 'whites' to fly.

 

[hipka]

Seems to me that you got hooked on Fox News. "Is he a sick bastard? probably not, but it is a question worth asking."

If I were an angry citizen the stupid article would make me happy. At least one ungrateful SOB is gone. Actually, if I believed that is really the case I would see it as a good news regardless of my status.

IF you were a US citizen, you would be worried why highly talented people are thinking of leaving the country. Not liking immigrants may be fine but losing talent is not. So obviously you are not a USC.

 

[nyc8300]

From my personal experience and people I have seen (i have worked with a lot of French, German, Australian etc), Americans are the MOST FAIR and LEAST RACIST of all. Any non-acceptance of immigrants is largely from ignorance than anything else.
Indians are probably the most stuck up and racist, followed by French and so on....
Immigration problem is problem created by lawyers and politicians and has no bearing on the character of the majority of the americans.

The mid-term elections say otherwise, sfmars.
Most of the congressmen/senators who were strongly anti-immigration (whether it be illegal or legal) were booted out of office. The issue of immigration didn't factor in as a top 3. If the average american really hates immigrants, they certainly seem to have re-ordered their priorities for the next 4 years.

 

[hipka]

If you are a US citizen, you would be worried if highly talented Americans are leaving the country.

This was an issue in early 1990's in Canada. They called it the brain drain when accountants, doctors, etc. who were educated/born in Canada would leave to access opportunities in USA.

People don't get worried if foreigners are leaving. They get worried when natives start leaving.

According to your logic, indians, chinese etc. who are settled here are not considered natives . Yet you say americans are not racist. So take one side: Either agree that USC's should be worried or say that USC's are racist.