Yahoo: Legal Immigrants to US face GC logJam

where_is_my_gc

Registered Users (C)
http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20061129/pl_nm/usa_greencard_dc

The same has been published elsewhere on news sites.

WELL DONE IV!!!


below is the text...

--
By Tim Gaynor

PHOENIX (Reuters) - Following all the rules, Indian national Sanjay Mehta came to the United States on a temporary work visa in 1997, hoping to build a glittering career in the fast-moving information technology sector.


But nine years later his application for a green card remains snarled up in a bureaucratic logjam, and he looks with frustration at the strides made by illegal immigrants who he says simply jumped the fence from Mexico.

"Washington has taken notice of them ... But what about the plight of legal immigrants to this country? We seem to have been forgotten," said Mehta, who settled in Arizona with his wife and raised two children.

Many of the estimated 10 million to 12 million illegal immigrants in the United States are hopeful of gains from a new Democrat-led Congress next year, after massive street protests in U.S. cities pushed their cause to the top of the political agenda earlier in the year.

But more than a million legal immigrants like Mehta from as far afield as Europe, India and China complain that their lives have been placed on hold as they battle red tape to become permanent residents in the United States.

Many are highly skilled, with science, electrical engineering and medical degrees, and are hired by U.S. companies, universities and research laboratories under a strict visa system with an annual cap of 65,000.

Those that get through into the United States then face a wait of up to 12 years for an employment-based green card, in a process that damages their professional lives and may even jeopardize U.S. competitiveness, immigrants, employers and analysts say.

LIVES LEFT IN LIMBO

All high-skilled immigrants seeking U.S. residency in 2004 had a college degree or better, and many would ordinarily be on a fast track career in research departments, hospitals and technology firms where they work across the United States.

But under the terms of the residency application they are tied to the job that they came into the country on, and face the prospect of watching colleagues advance while their lives remain on hold, advocates say.

"The long wait throws high-skilled professional immigrants' lives in limbo," said Aman Kapoor, the founder and president of Immigration Voice, a national grassroots organization representing skilled immigrants across the United States.

"They are not able to move to better job opportunities in the prime period of their career, which is very professionally frustrating for them," said Kapoor, an Indian national who works as a programmer analyst at Florida State University.

Others complain they face additional problems generated by the uncertain outcome of their residency application, including difficulty obtaining mortgage credit and even car loans.

"My wife has a masters in child psychology and has taught for more than 20 years in schools in Nigeria, but here she isn't allowed to work," said Kola Akinwande, a Nigerian database administrator based in Phoenix who has been waiting two years for a green card.

"I also have to pay out-of-state tuition fees for my son to study at university here, which puts an additional financial burden on the family," he added.

JOBS LEFT UNFILLED

The process has been slowed down yet further since the September 11 2001 attacks, as lengthy background checks by the FBI can add two to three years to the already drawn-out process.

The immigration logjam is not just a headache for the foreign-born professionals and their families, who face repeated knock-backs in the long and uncertain path to residency.

Some U.S. employers, especially in the technology sector, where global competition is fierce, are also concerned that they are prevented from hiring the best and the brightest, who they need to keep ahead of the curve.

Microsoft says it currently has 4,000 to 5,000 technical posts it cannot fill at its research facilities in the Puget Sound area, while Texas Instruments has more than 200 vacancies for specialists to design, develop and test integrated circuits and semiconductors.

"The problem is that the U.S. education system is not producing enough people with a math, science or engineering background to fill these vacancies, so we are having to look outside," said Jack Krumholtz, Microsoft's chief lobbyist in Washington.

For employers and immigrant advocates, the solution includes raising the annual cap on H1B non-immigrant work visas to allow more skilled immigrants into the country, and speeding up the residency process to break the logjam.

Analysts warn that failure to do so could lead immigrants with sought-after skills to head for other countries like Australia, Canada and Britain, where the process is more streamlined.

"Unless this problem is corrected, the U.S. will be viewed by the best professionals as an unreliable place to build a career and have a family," said Stuart Anderson, the director of the National Foundation for American Policy think-tank.

But for Sanjay Mehta, any overhaul would come too late. Weary of delays and knockbacks, he packed up his life in Arizona, and took his wife and two U.S.-born children to start again in Britain.

"I feel like I wasted nine years of my life," he said
 
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Good article .. but ...

where_is_my_gc said:
http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20061129/pl_nm/usa_greencard_dc

The same has been published elsewhere on news sites.

WELL DONE IV!!!


below is the text...

--
By Tim Gaynor

PHOENIX (Reuters) - Following all the rules, Indian national Sanjay Mehta came to the United States on a temporary work visa in 1997, hoping to build a glittering career in the fast-moving information technology sector.


But nine years later his application for a green card remains snarled up in a bureaucratic logjam, and he looks with frustration at the strides made by illegal immigrants who he says simply jumped the fence from Mexico.

"Washington has taken notice of them ... But what about the plight of legal immigrants to this country? We seem to have been forgotten," said Mehta, who settled in Arizona with his wife and raised two children.

Many of the estimated 10 million to 12 million illegal immigrants in the United States are hopeful of gains from a new Democrat-led Congress next year, after massive street protests in U.S. cities pushed their cause to the top of the political agenda earlier in the year.

But more than a million legal immigrants like Mehta from as far afield as Europe, India and China complain that their lives have been placed on hold as they battle red tape to become permanent residents in the United States.

Many are highly skilled, with science, electrical engineering and medical degrees, and are hired by U.S. companies, universities and research laboratories under a strict visa system with an annual cap of 65,000.

Those that get through into the United States then face a wait of up to 12 years for an employment-based green card, in a process that damages their professional lives and may even jeopardize U.S. competitiveness, immigrants, employers and analysts say.

LIVES LEFT IN LIMBO

All high-skilled immigrants seeking U.S. residency in 2004 had a college degree or better, and many would ordinarily be on a fast track career in research departments, hospitals and technology firms where they work across the United States.

But under the terms of the residency application they are tied to the job that they came into the country on, and face the prospect of watching colleagues advance while their lives remain on hold, advocates say.

"The long wait throws high-skilled professional immigrants' lives in limbo," said Aman Kapoor, the founder and president of Immigration Voice, a national grassroots organization representing skilled immigrants across the United States.

"They are not able to move to better job opportunities in the prime period of their career, which is very professionally frustrating for them," said Kapoor, an Indian national who works as a programmer analyst at Florida State University.

Others complain they face additional problems generated by the uncertain outcome of their residency application, including difficulty obtaining mortgage credit and even car loans.

"My wife has a masters in child psychology and has taught for more than 20 years in schools in Nigeria, but here she isn't allowed to work," said Kola Akinwande, a Nigerian database administrator based in Phoenix who has been waiting two years for a green card.

"I also have to pay out-of-state tuition fees for my son to study at university here, which puts an additional financial burden on the family," he added.

JOBS LEFT UNFILLED

The process has been slowed down yet further since the September 11 2001 attacks, as lengthy background checks by the FBI can add two to three years to the already drawn-out process.

The immigration logjam is not just a headache for the foreign-born professionals and their families, who face repeated knock-backs in the long and uncertain path to residency.

Some U.S. employers, especially in the technology sector, where global competition is fierce, are also concerned that they are prevented from hiring the best and the brightest, who they need to keep ahead of the curve.

Microsoft says it currently has 4,000 to 5,000 technical posts it cannot fill at its research facilities in the Puget Sound area, while Texas Instruments has more than 200 vacancies for specialists to design, develop and test integrated circuits and semiconductors.

"The problem is that the U.S. education system is not producing enough people with a math, science or engineering background to fill these vacancies, so we are having to look outside," said Jack Krumholtz, Microsoft's chief lobbyist in Washington.

For employers and immigrant advocates, the solution includes raising the annual cap on H1B non-immigrant work visas to allow more skilled immigrants into the country, and speeding up the residency process to break the logjam.

Analysts warn that failure to do so could lead immigrants with sought-after skills to head for other countries like Australia, Canada and Britain, where the process is more streamlined.

"Unless this problem is corrected, the U.S. will be viewed by the best professionals as an unreliable place to build a career and have a family," said Stuart Anderson, the director of the National Foundation for American Policy think-tank.

But for Sanjay Mehta, any overhaul would come too late. Weary of delays and knockbacks, he packed up his life in Arizona, and took his wife and two U.S.-born children to start again in Britain.

"I feel like I wasted nine years of my life," he said

This is a good article and highlights the problems well but I don't think the legal immigrant issue has enough traction to gain any real support in the short term. Most categories are actually benefitting from the retrogression because their cases are being processed in a relatively timely manner. Infact an argument can be made that this retrogression is well earned by certain categories (especially India EB2 and EB3). Just way to many people from India are clogging this system. No offense please, I am one of the thousands of Indians clogging the system .. :)

cheers,

saras
 
I would suggest that we send emails to all the news organizations with the link of this story to point out that this is a problem and they should report on this one as well. May be with some credibility of Yahoo! News will help our cause. We should not waste time on discussing this thing but rather flood the emails of the reporters in the local news outlets where the new congressmen will feel pressured.

Hope everyone follows.
 
are these the strongest arguments?

So, the guy came here on a *temporary* work visa nine years ago, had two kids, lived his life and he now feels like he wasted nine years of his life because he was not given permanent residency?

Should he be given one so he does not feel like he wasted those years? If I were a citizen I would be insulted by his attitude.

The only meaningful thing in the article is the old Krumholtz quote. Everything else is either inaccurate, irrelevant or just stupid.
 
One of the most important things here is that the GC process is too long and unpredictable and people plan their future based on this expectation.If one is aware of the wait time and the unpredictability of this process then one can plan accordingly, rather immigrate to some other countries with more humane and streamlined immigration system and even better be home.

Not to forget the race bias that the employers have here in handing promotions and all the unfortunate things that an H1 holder may knowingly have to go thru.

I am not saying that all things are bad but someone on temporary visa as well as their family pay a heavy price to be here too. It also contributes to feeding the Social Security system and in most cases people go back home for nothing in return after as many years.

Priorities for educated professionals are changing as this gruesome reality is known worldwide and this nation is slowly but surely being looked upon with less reliability as for future prospects.



alexberg said:
So, the guy came here on a *temporary* work visa nine years ago, had two kids, lived his life and he now feels like he wasted nine years of his life because he was not given permanent residency?

Should he be given one so he does not feel like he wasted those years? If I were a citizen I would be insulted by his attitude.

The only meaningful thing in the article is the old Krumholtz quote. Everything else is either inaccurate, irrelevant or just stupid.
 
alexberg said:
So, the guy came here on a *temporary* work visa nine years ago, had two kids, lived his life and he now feels like he wasted nine years of his life because he was not given permanent residency?

Should he be given one so he does not feel like he wasted those years? If I were a citizen I would be insulted by his attitude.

The only meaningful thing in the article is the old Krumholtz quote. Everything else is either inaccurate, irrelevant or just stupid.

Right, It is the same like to say that if I do not get 10 million dollars next couple of years I would consider that time wasted.

It is realy stupid and pointless article.
 
Alexberg and sfmars : The same stand true for you : [B]Everything & Everyone else is either inaccurate, irrelevant or just stupid.[/B]
 
The article is published by Reauters and as usual many leading newspapers have picked up. For more details, please visit following link

http://immigrationvoice.org/forum/showthread.php?t=2410


puerthoughts said:
I would suggest that we send emails to all the news organizations with the link of this story to point out that this is a problem and they should report on this one as well. May be with some credibility of Yahoo! News will help our cause. We should not waste time on discussing this thing but rather flood the emails of the reporters in the local news outlets where the new congressmen will feel pressured.

Hope everyone follows.
 
did I hurt your feelings?

Do you expect legislators to act because *temporary* workers are not happy with available options? The guy came here as a *temporary* worker, spent nine years trying to become a permanent resident, failed for whatever reason and he does not like the country anymore.

If that is the best argument the GC-hopefuls can come up with this country definitely will not lose anything valuable by not grating permanent residency.
 
alexberg said:
Do you expect legislators to act because *temporary* workers are not happy with available options? The guy came here as a *temporary* worker, spent nine years trying to become a permanent resident, failed for whatever reason and he does not like the country anymore.

If that is the best argument the GC-hopefuls can come up with this country definitely will not lose anything valuable by not grating permanent residency.

why can't the govt. pass a law saying H1s cannot be taken for full-time jobs. they won't do that, will they ?. also, ask the govt. to stop a H1 from applying for a greencard. stop spamming your use and throw crap all over here.
 
indian_gc_ocean said:
why can't the govt. pass a law saying H1s cannot be taken for full-time jobs. they won't do that, will they ?. also, ask the govt. to stop a H1 from applying for a greencard. stop spamming your use and throw crap all over here.

99% of US citizens and even permanent residents (H1B workers in the past) do not support H1B program, their attitude to H1B people is even worse than to illegas. Unfortunately the most of desperate people, looking for green cards and affected by retrogression, do not understand that only way to get relief through legislation is if their employers (not employees) can do something for the H1B workers and legal immigrants. Only employers can speak with Congress on behalf of retrogressed people.

I agree with alexberg that such type of articles can cause only irritation among US citizens.

indian_gc_ocean said:
stop spamming your use and throw crap all over here.

It is free forum and everybody can say whatever he/she likes.
Spam and crap is commerscial advertisement of the cell phones here.
 
sfmars,

May be you are failing to understand the article and also the others posts including mine. Your reply to my post is completely irrelevant to the tone of the original post I replied. But by your replies, I expect that you still have few more years left before in your six years of H1. Don't worry, one day you also be able to understand. I think there is some fairness in highlighting one's plight after trying for many years.

Its a free forum I agree, there is also a context/thread in which you post your posts.
 
I agree with Alex and sfmars (though I'm from India).

Basically, if you're in line for a GC, no one's holding a gun to your head. Unless your head is very deeply buried in sand, you know that GC is very unpredictable and unreliable and if you work for a consulting company you're exposing yourself to exploitation.

Obviously you are *choosing* to stay back, given all the uncertainities so you have no one to blame but yourself. If you're not going back to your home country, it's because you consider it worth your while to spend a few years in line and get a GC and then enjoy all the previleges granted to permanent residents.

Yes, it's frustrating (to me as well) but make sure you understand that you are choosing to stay. The acknowledgement of your own responsibility will make it easier for you and hopefully will make you complain a little less.

A lot of bitching goes on in these forums and it sounds quite a lot like petulant children who have no understanding of how things work but only perceive that they're not getting the candy that they demand.

Grow up, friends, and acknowledge your responsibility as well. The quota system is implemented in a certain way and it's perhaps unfair. But there are bigger problems that the US govt needs to solve rather than address the concerns of a million people who are neither residents or citizens but are temporary workers.

Yes, the bigger problems that need to be solved could be passing legislation for Terry Shiavo, or building a few million dollars bridge in a remote Alaskan village (I'm being facetious) but that's the way things are.

When you accepted an offer of an H1 visa, there is an understanding of temporary stay, with a max of 6 yrs and YOU accepted it. Yes, you were hopeful of applying for a GC and getting it but that's not a part of the deal but a bonus. Nobody forced you to accept the H1 and the employer might have promised a GC but that's under the limits of the law.

Australia and New Zealand are encouraging immigration and Canada is already immigration friendly. If you complain so much, why don't you go there? They're developed countries as well? Simple: the US is still a better deal.

So just chill out, let's all get together after work tonight and grab a few beers.

Take it easy and don't complain/worry so much. It'll come when it'll come and even if it doesn't come it ain't the end of the world. There are plenty of other opportunities.

Cheers,
nj_skm
N.B. With rancor towards none. Sometimes I get sick of all the bitching that goes on from all these well educated people holding good jobs and making good money. Yes, you can get better jobs and better money, but it'll get better, remember, so just wait and relax while you're waiting.
 
alexberg said:
So, the guy came here on a *temporary* work visa nine years ago, had two kids, lived his life and he now feels like he wasted nine years of his life because he was not given permanent residency?

Should he be given one so he does not feel like he wasted those years? If I were a citizen I would be insulted by his attitude.

The only meaningful thing in the article is the old Krumholtz quote. Everything else is either inaccurate, irrelevant or just stupid.


You kidding me right? This article can only cause irritation among those who are brain dead, and those who obviously already have daddy's money to begin with. What part of 'trying to make a make a life' don't you get? When your hands have been tied down for almost a decade in a dead end job with exploited, below average salary, which allows you no savings (but yes, you can have kids and survive day to day) - even a homeless guy can do that in the USA it does not mean he's happy and perpetually gay like you, then you can take the mic. Until then, people like you should just keep your useless un-experienced views to yourslef.
People on H1 are helping to make this economy spin, and their hard earned tax dollars are helping to fund a lot of programs only beneficial to Americans citizens and PR's. The are skilled and LEGAL!
If illegal immigrants are getting a better deal than legal ones, in my book there's a BIG problem! Everyone should be involved in educating the ignorant.
Pump some sense into your head while you still can ..
And for your sake, take the time to visit some of these families personally. People who have so much potential, and are able to and want to contribute so much more to this country, but can't until half their lives are gone in this stupid system. When you kill a person's spirit like that, it's the worse thing ever. YOU have to be in that position to see it. Go ahead try it ... and post again after 10 years when you're still in line.
 
BrainDrain said:
Alexberg and sfmars : The same stand true for you : [B]Everything & Everyone else is either inaccurate, irrelevant or just stupid.[/B]
well said. atleast that person in the article was trying to shout and tell that the system is broken. with the aging on baby boomers US does need qualified people.
 
indian_gc_ocean said:
But by your replies, I expect that you still have few more years left before in your six years of H1. Don't worry, one day you also be able to understand. I think there is some fairness in highlighting one's plight after trying for many years.

Wrong guess, I am on the 9th year of my current H1B visa, just recently got extension for 3 more years. It is my third attempt to get green card, the first approved LC I got in 2000. I believe that many of us (including me) in this forum can tell us kind of the same stories about ourselves, kind of how unhappy they were in the green card process.

Personally I understand that guy in that article and I have my sympathy for him, because I am in the same shoes. I believe that all people affected by retrogression have sympathy for him. I just wanted to say that methods to write such type of articles in the papers and in the media is not right and will cause nothing more than irritation among the citizens.
 
nj_skm,

I agree with most of what you said and also agree with the point that it is our choice to stay here, it should be only our choice.

This is my point, when H1 is a temporary worker, why the corporates take them for full-time permanent jobs -- because law allows them. For me it looks like a flaw in the system. It has become very advantageous and easy for the corporates and people now a days to point out that H1 is a temporary worker even after working in a full-time job for 6-7 seven years. How would one feel if one has to leave the country after being in a job for 9 years, because he is a temporary worker.

The whole idea of hiring a temporary worker to full-time job is because the company can process greencard or make him permanent. If that greencard process is stalled after say 9 years and that person has to leave the country, it is fine if he highlights his plight. Sympathise them atleast if not branding them as temporary, because they never worked temporary.
 
Agreed ...

indian_gc_ocean said:
nj_skm,

I agree with most of what you said and also agree with the point that it is our choice to stay here, it should be only our choice.

This is my point, when H1 is a temporary worker, why the corporates take them for full-time permanent jobs -- because law allows them. For me it looks like a flaw in the system. It has become very advantageous and easy for the corporates and people now a days to point out that H1 is a temporary worker even after working in a full-time job for 6-7 seven years. How would one feel if one has to leave the country after being in a job for 9 years, because he is a temporary worker.

The whole idea of hiring a temporary worker to full-time job is because the company can process greencard or make him permanent. If that greencard process is stalled after say 9 years and that person has to leave the country, it is fine if he highlights his plight. Sympathise them atleast if not branding them as temporary, because they never worked temporary.


indian_gc_ocean,

I have made the same argument as you have made many times and totally understand your point. If the H1B was a true temporary worker visa then there would be no option to convert to permanent residency. To let people apply for the GC and not have a decent system to take care of the mess is irresponsible in my view. The challenge is that this argument sounds like a pathetic way of seeking pity/sympathy. I can kind of see how that can happen ...

There is no question that all of us H1Bs are here out of choice and are not being forced to stay here. Most of us are also quite happy with our lives. The problem always arises when people in our H1B community try to question the system in any way or raise valid concerns about our situation. Is there any right way to express ourselves apart from just shutting up? If someone writes an article they are considered bogus and idiotic, if someone posts something on the forum they are labeled weak pity seekers, if somone questions the system in anyway they are told to shut up and take it elsewhere. I guess the best option is to not discuss anything beyond numbers and visa bulletins.

The bottom line is that a majority of people (maybe rightly so) are convinced that they are fortunate enough to just be here in any capacity (H1B, illegal etc) and consider questioning the system as a sign of weakness. I am beginning to see their point in some ways ...

Personally, I consider myself very fortunate to be here and am thankful for a lot of things but like you I do get the urge to question the system sometimes. My questioning has not led to very pleasant discussions though :) :)

cheers,

saras
 
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alexberg said:
So, the guy came here on a *temporary* work visa nine years ago, had two kids, lived his life and he now feels like he wasted nine years of his life because he was not given permanent residency?

Should he be given one so he does not feel like he wasted those years? If I were a citizen I would be insulted by his attitude.

The only meaningful thing in the article is the old Krumholtz quote. Everything else is either inaccurate, irrelevant or just stupid.
Well Alex, you fail to realize that H-1B (Temporary) is a non-immigrant visa with dual-intent (intent to migrate). If It wasn't the case, I wouldn't have spent 7 years of my life in this country to make my life better. 'nuf said
 
ask not what your country can do for you

Going back to the original article. We have a guy who says he wasted nine years of his life trying to get permanent residence after arriving here as a temporary worker.

Let's imagine for a moment that I am Tom, Dick or Harry somewhere in US reading the article in my favorite Tribune while getting some rest during my evening visit to the restroom. My cousin Larry is in military and could get killed fighting for my freedom and the freedom of that ungrateful MF who spent the last nine years working some office job while I spent my years looking at my shrinking paycheck, working two jobs and spending minutes with my kids.

After reading this article I would say "f*ck this MF, take him by the ears, put him on the first ship that will take him back where he came from and do not let him, his family, friends or anyone else from his stinking country of origin ever step on the holly land of the new world or bread the air of freedom and democracy."

If, on the other hand, the Arizona guy who wasted nine years of his life had said something like: "I acquired some skills that have been in demand lately and that gave me the opportunity to spend the last nine years in this beautiful country. I learned to like the little things that used to get on my nerves and the things I liked originally I like even better. I keep working hard, I try to augment my knowledge, my company invested in me and my skills, my kids are growing proud... but somehow I feel that my spouse and I can do even more for this country - due some legal limitations my wife is not able to join the work force and this country is not using the years she spent getting her MA degree. I wanted to start a small business with a couple of my friends that would employ at least a dozen of people after a year, but I was not able to", etc... then I would, from my evening pedestal, scream 'ECCE HOMO' and maybe tell my lady about that pour guy who wants so badly to be one of us, but the stupid system will not let him.

My point? The article is stupid and it targets always-ohh-so-sad-poor-H1B's. It can cause damage and it should not be forwarded around.

Ask yourself - "honestly, why do I want to become a PR or citizen? Why do I deserve to become one?"
And then try to imagine yourself being a citizen and listening to the answer.

Finally, my first name is not Tom, Dick, Harry or Alex. alexberg is just an alias I picked when I signed up for some service on the day I saw that Nicholas Berg guy die, while I was thinking of his poor mother. I am affected by retrogression, stuck in the process, blahblah.
 
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