OCI - New York Tracker

[cadavi]

Sorry and my sincere apologize if provoked you in any way and I 'am with you on this - but nothing is going to a change in a week or so and I 'am preparing a detail list of things
and question that need to be address and I will include this as well - meanwhile please email your concerns and questions to relevant people and it may work - and it surely worked for me

Hi BostonCool,

Please, there is no need to apologize. I understand everyone's frustrations here in getting what is rightfully ours - a Surrender Certificate and an OCI - and the fact that CGIs anywhere are not making it easier or convenient for anybody. I just wanted to point out that in our hurry and rush to get our OCIs, we should not disregard the ways, means and protocols of our new country. There is a clear and prescribed procedure for getting legal and certified copies of our NCs that have been laid out very clearly on the USCIS web site. In fact, Ms. Anju Sharma, in response to Dr. Dutta's email earlier on in this thread, also noted the same thing. She said "We need a copy of naturalization certificate as a proof of when the applicant acquired US citizenship. There is a legally prescribed way to get a duplicate copy of the NC. Applicants are encouraged to contact the US immigration authorities to get a copy of this document. We do not require the certificate to be notarized." In spite of this clarity, people seem to be sending in their own photocopies of the NC, ignoring all these instructions, and basically doing precisely what we accuse the CGIs of doing - not following rules, protocols, instructions, and doing what they please.

All I'm suggesting is, we all know that there is an Indian way of doing things, and then there is the right way. It is up to us to choose which way we want to proceed.

 

[BostonCool]

Hi BostonCool,

Please, there is no need to apologize. I understand everyone's frustrations here in getting what is rightfully ours - a Surrender Certificate and an OCI - and the fact that CGIs anywhere are not making it easier or convenient for anybody. I just wanted to point out that in our hurry and rush to get our OCIs, we should not disregard the ways, means and protocols of our new country. There is a clear and prescribed procedure for getting legal and certified copies of our NCs that have been laid out very clearly on the USCIS web site. In fact, Ms. Anju Sharma, in response to Dr. Dutta's email earlier on in this thread, also noted the same thing. She said "We need a copy of naturalization certificate as a proof of when the applicant acquired US citizenship. There is a legally prescribed way to get a duplicate copy of the NC. Applicants are encouraged to contact the US immigration authorities to get a copy of this document. We do not require the certificate to be notarized." In spite of this clarity, people seem to be sending in their own photocopies of the NC, ignoring all these instructions, and basically doing precisely what we accuse the CGIs of doing - not following rules, protocols, instructions, and doing what they please.

All I'm suggesting is, we all know that there is an Indian way of doing things, and then there is the right way. It is up to us to choose which way we want to proceed.

Mrs. Pushpa Kumar words (I did not validate it):- it is perfectly legal if you do self attest it

 

[cadavi]

"So I assume if and when you get caught copying the NC and someone asks you about it, the Director at the DO will be available to bail you out and come to your assistance? "



The fact that we received the CoC for our children from USCIS using photo copy of our Nat. Cert shows that there is nothing illegal. I have posted my experience. If you think it is illegal go ahead and do what you want to do. I can handle my problems.

Hello,

I did not mean to rile any feathers. It might be OK to provide copies of your NC back to the USCIS (I'm not sure), but in this case we are providing copies to external parties. On USCIS' Web site, they specifically mention the correct procedure to get copies of NC to provide to "Foreign Governments/Embassies". Here is the link (which has also been provided by someone earlier in this thread): http://www.uscis.gov/portal/site/us...nnel=54519c7755cb9010VgnVCM10000045f3d6a1RCRD

I'm happy for you that you can handle your problems.

 

[BostonCool]

Like I stated earlier in my earlier response to Ginnu - My OCI dispatched after affix OCI stamp (of course I need see it to believe it)
this are the step I followed (which may not relevant to current form)
1) OCI document received @ embassy on May 5th (missed by a day ugh???)
2) Mailed my US & Indian passport on 6th and received in embassy on 7th
3) fiasco started on 8th
4) Surrender form (Version 1.0) ==> on 12th with top portion filled in
--> Clearly stating not attaching Indian friend passport as it is considered as security threat and not willing to expose any of my friend
---> my original US and Indian passport with you guys so it is not possible to attach any copy
so form + Fees + OCI proof - nothing more than that
5) Version 2,3,4 came and I did nothing except sending professional email to them and others
6) Got a call from Mrs. Pushpa and she asked me to email my travel plans
7) Which I promptly did last Saturday
8) follow-up email about the stressed it caused to Indian community and also offered to do any kind of voluntary service which may they need at the difficult times
Ok folks - will catch you guys tomorrow if I have any new updates

 

[cadavi]

Mrs. Pushpa Kumar words (I did not validate it):- it is perfectly legal if you do self attest it

Once again - this is a US document, certified and provided to us by a US Government organization. I would feel a lot more confident if someone from the US Government or USCIS said it was perfectly legal, not someone who has absolutely no authority over anything regarding the NC.

 

[BostonCool]

Once again - this is a US document, certified and provided to us by a US Government organization. I would feel a lot more confident if someone from the US Government or USCIS said it was perfectly legal, not someone who has absolutely no authority over anything regarding the NC.

This is what I would do (I follow what I say) -send them a copy and also specify it is not perfectly legal to it but I 'am doing this any case as I'am force do it and do not not want to be left out of the race to get surrender certificate -
We are notarizing the the naturalization date so why not revoke this stupid requirement and respect the local law
it does two things 1) you get yours 2) benefit/educate our NYC and help our people

 

[cadavi]

This is what I would do (I follow what I say) -send them a copy and also specify it is not perfectly legal to it but I 'am doing this any case as I'am force do it and do not not want to be left out of the race to get surrender certificate -
We are notarizing the the naturalization date so why not revoke this stupid requirement and respect the local law
it does two things 1) you get yours 2) benefit/educate our NYC and help our people

For what it's worth, I took an Infopass appointment at the nearest USCIS office for Monday (May 24th). In most locations an Infopass app to meet an IO is available pretty quickly, within a day or two. The IO will verify the original and provide you a certified copy of your NC the same day.

 

[arjundutta]

A little clearer explanations

Folks,

I am sorry if I info caused more distress. It was very taxing day today and I wanted to get the info out ASAP.

Explanations:

1) OCI that has been dispatched after approval from Delhi and has reached NY by 4TH MAY will not be charged $175 as per MR. BAJAJ today.

2) ALL OCIs from 1 will be released w/o SC

3) IF YOU HAVE PAID AND YOU ARE 1-- NO REFUND

4) APPROVED OCI/PIO received at NY CONSULATE from 5th may onwards have to pay $175

5) SC and OCI not neccesarrily related. if your passport has been cancelled previously GREAT. HOWEVER, IF you from now onwards need any consular service, SC proof required.

6) I do not know about the passports that expired prior to 2005. HOWEVER, refer to 5; passport not neccesarily related to SC. cancelled or not for subsequent consualr service YOU NEED PROOF OF SC

7) NC- no need to go through USCIS unless you like CADVI want to literally follow the law, which is also suggested by ANJU KUMAR.

CAVEAT: during NC process, USCIS people told me it is OK for me to copy it for my personal use and I SHOULD COPY IT IN CASE I LOOSE ORIGINAL.

8) I gave 3 copies of SC form ALL ORIGINAL AND NOTORIZED. I AM NOT SURE IF THIS WAS REQUIRED. I AM SURE IF YOU GIVE 1 COPY IT SHOULD WORK AS SOME PEOPLE TODAY HAD 1 COPY ONLY.


IT is a burden if you have to pay a notary for each copy.


HOPE THIS HELPS.

I PERSONALLY, turned in MY SC FORM had the option of pick up or delivery. the cheapskate in me saved $20 and DECIDED PICK UP---DATE GIVEN JUNE 1, still beats their 2 week timeline.

AFTER getting SC, since I do not have rush of travel, will request OCI by mail.

IF YOU HAVE EMEREGENCY, TODAY CONSULATE WAS ACCEPTING OCI FOR 4TH MAY RECEIPTS; OTHER DATES FOLLOW SC PROCEDURE.

YOU CAN DO BOTH TOGETHER, JUST SEND IT IN ONE PLACE -SC with instructions for OCI. AND $20 DOLLARS, ANJU KUMAR'S DEPT will process SC and forward to OCI cell.

Suggest doing this is YOUR OCI HAS REACHED NY FROM DELHI

ARJUN

 

[BITS_IIMB]

Dr. Dutta:

Thank You for the detailed clarifications, that too after a strenuous day. Really very helpful for all of us.

 

[cadavi]

Dr. Dutta, thanks for the helpful info, greatly appreciated.

CAVEAT: during NC process, USCIS people told me it is OK for me to copy it for my personal use and I SHOULD COPY IT IN CASE I LOOSE ORIGINAL.

However, this is not true. You're right that during the NC process we were asked to make A copy for ourselves in case we lose it, but definitely NOT for "personal use", whatever that means.

 

[arjundutta]

You welcome BITS and IIM B; i have a lot of friends from Pillani and the IIMs.
BTW, it is Arjun for all of you; I was just making a point to Anju Kumar!

Thnaks to Ginnu and all of you for the self-less service all of you provide.

Arjun

 

[arjundutta]

I have situation not sure how this will affect me.

I become US citizen in 2003. I sent my passport to NY consulate for cancelation and they sent me a letter with statement of "WE HAVE NOTED THAT YOU HAVE RENOUNCED INDIAN CITIZENSHIP AND HAVE ACQUIRED UNITED STATES NATIONALITY" and they sent my Indian passport back. I applied for OCI. The last status is document left from India on 5/12. No update since then. Do I also need SU to get OCI stamp/Card?? I sent an email to P.K. Bajaj. He told ye "Yes please, you are required to first obtain the surrender certificate and then send your oci applications with a copy of the surrender certificate (surrender certificate is not required by your daughters if they are born in the US). "

I am not sure why i have to get SU. Any suggestions.

Thank you,

Please see my earlier post.; SC now required for any consular type processing of foreign passports; if you ever had an Indian passport.

 

[arjundutta]

I will visit the blog in case people still have some queries

 

[arjundutta]

My OCI was dispatched by New Delhi office on April 21st and received by the New York Consulate on May 4th. I had my US passports sent to the New York office for stamping on May 4th but I was still asked file for SC.

Mr. Bajaj said the 4th may instructions came from Delhi today

 

[arjundutta]

Dr. Anju Kumar's suggestion:

"You may send in your SC application by mail. If you include your OCI reference number, your SC, after being processed, will be forwarded to the OCI department. If you have urgency and your OCI documents have been received at the Consulate, you may come and apply in person."

 

[csekar]

Last week, I went to DMV office to update my name change in DL. They asked NC, Passport, SSC and I submitted. They took copy of NC. I asked them how you can take copy of NC . A specific note is given below in NC. He said a Govt. official can take copy of black and white. Also, if you require to submit USA or any govt. can take copy nothing wrong with this.As long as not taking color copy of NC , this is OK.

Correct procedure is, one has to take infopass , go to local USCSIS office and apply for certified copy of NC. They will give within five mts.

As a citizen of USA, every one must obey the law. I don't know how the law is breaking up here.

If any one knows, can clarify this point

 

[rrk15]

I too was in CGI NY. Me and my daughter's OCI received at CGI NY on January 7, 2010 and my wife's OCI on May 4, 2010. I mailed all of our US passports & me and my wife's Indian passports on May 8, 2010 and received at Consulate on May 10, 2010. Didn't received the passports and went to consulate today with all the SC documents & Fee. Mr.Bajaj announced the information as mentioned by arjundutta before me submitting SC application in the counter. By 5.00 pm received all 3 US passports and OCI cards. Also my Indian passport was stamped just "CANCELLED". But the Indian passports was stamped "CANCELLED DUE TO OBTAINING FOREIGN NATIONALITY" or something to that effect for those who submitted SC application & Fee and also received Surrender Certificate.

 

[vip1r]

All a long journey has seemingly crossed another milestone.

My OCI arrived in NY on 12th May, howver, did not send my passport in while the dust was clearing and today I was glad that I did not.

Went to the consulate today. Planned to reach there at 8, however, got there around 9:30. Really long line, confusion, etc. as mentioned. Waited and got in.

You have to go to window 2 for surrender certificate, get that and then apply for OCI stamping. I had an one form notarized and 3 copies of the form. There were people without triplicate and they accepted. I had one cashier's check for both me and my wife. Had also included an extra 20 in there just in case they were only going to mail and needed the shipping cost to be included.

There is a lot of confusion about whether one needs to get SC before OCI stamping. However, just stay on window 2 line. I found this out the hard way. Also watch for people trying to sneak in before you.

Midway through the wait, the "Bajaj announcement" as arjundutta stated above happened. I happend to be outside the exception cases which were exempt from SC so I went back into the line. There was some arguments, but I had retained my token no. so was able to join the line back where I left it. Submitted the form. Initially, I was going to get a long wait to get the SC. However, I pleaded my case and the gentleman wrote today on the receipt and told me that it might happen by 4:30 in the evening. Thus ended counter 2.

On to counter 4 ("OCI counter") . There Mr. Bajaj and some other person were taking applications. They required SC's for all people after the 4th. However, I showed them my printouts of the status from the MHA site and the receipt of the SC submission. The other gentleman was objecting to this, however, Mr. Bajaj intervened and asked him to accept the application. They took a critical look at the receipt I was handed a few minutes earlier by their colleague sitting a few inches from them. I guess some kind of inter department rivalry/mistrust.

They did accept the form and asked to come back by 5. It was around 12:00 by then. Got out and decided it was pointless to try to head to the office downtown for a few hours. So headed to the park. Thankfully it was a gorgeous day, could not have asked for a better day for this to happen.

Got back to the embassy at 4:40. Similar chaos but a lot fewer people. I just went up to 4 to see if my SC was ready. Luckily, within a few minutes, my name was called and I was handed 2 pieces of paper with an official looking certificate with seal and signature. (Note. it is not the bottom half of the pdf form ripped out as has been speculated about). They also gave back indian passports with a stamp on them saying "Cancelled due to obtaining of US Citizenship" in red. This is a specific stamp that seems have been invented post the SC ruling. Thanked the gentleman behind the counter for being kind enough to issue the certificate the Same day and relieving me of 370 USD.

Then went to counter 4 to collect my OCI certificates. fingers crossed, (could hear some climax music in the background). The person appears starts handing them out. The people before 4th collected their passports. They had to re-assert that they were pre May 4th. However, this was taken at face value. I went up, and in hindsight, foolishly showed him my freshly acquired SC to collect my passports/OCI cards. The man immediately said he required photocopies of the SC's to hand me my passports. So close, the tension builds at this point.

It was almost 5. The nearest photocopy place is 3 avenue blocks away, I hurried there (More tense music), hoping to be back. The guy charges 25 c per copy in this day and age, however, I guess he realizes this is a captive market since the embassy does not seem to have electronic records for anything and requires a shit load of copies.

Got back by 5:15. Gave the copies and got the passports and the cards back. Some of the Pre 4th people also got theirs back. However their indian passports had a black "Cancelled" stamp on it. Not my $175 red "special' stamp that I mentioned earlier in the post. They obviously at some point in their lives will have to come back and get this stamp (Hope for their sake, these people realize their folly and change the rules).

Anyway, checked the name spellings and tallied up all the paper work. All in order (No middle name for my son, but I guess I will overlook this unless it becomes a problem). Headed back home on the subway.

All in all a long day, however "Aaall is Well".

PS. Just did some math, by my calculation, the Indian consulate in NY might collect something in the range of 100-175 MM USD in the next 3/4 months with this process. Also, Mr. Bajaj did mention that they are processing OCI's at at clip of about 3K a month in NY alone. Across all countries and regions, it seems like a Billion $$ in revenue. I wonder what the expenses of the Indian Foriegn Service at all its posts is. This is almost as good as the recently concluded 3G auctions.

 

[ginnu]

Folks,

I am sorry if I info caused more distress. It was very taxing day today and I wanted to get the info out ASAP.

Explanations:

1) OCI that has been dispatched after approval from Delhi and has reached NY by 4TH MAY will not be charged $175 as per MR. BAJAJ today.

-------------------------------But no official announcement on the Indian consulate site.
2) ALL OCIs from 1 will be released w/o SC
Do you mean all the OCI that are Received in Indian Consulate in NY in May 4 don’t have to Pay 175. What do you mean by May 4? Do you mean if the OCI reached NYC and OCI online status page shows RECIVED CGI NYC May 4 or BEFORE May 4? will all the OCI RECIEVED in NYC BEFORE 4 May they dont need SC to submit or to get SC to Collect OCI? What about those who send OCI Status page that OCI reached NYC Before MAY 4 and also paid $175 and also sent Indian passport and US passport? Should they go to Consulate and ask the $175 back and collect the OCI?

3) IF YOU HAVE PAID AND YOU ARE 1-- NO REFUND
-------------------Clear, They will never Refund And they are going to follow the old traditions.

4) APPROVED OCI/PIO received at NY CONSULATE from 5th may onwards have to pay $175

-------IF OCI is approved and reach NYC After May 4(according to OCI online status page) then pay $175 for SC+20 Mailing charge then only they will give OCI and U visa. first one has to send Indian passport for SC with $175+20+Form and other papers and nobody knows when they will send SC and then again Mail the SC and Indian passport+US passport and then wait for OCI through Mail. to get SC and OCI it seems it will take about 35-45 days.

5) SC and OCI not neccesarrily related. if your passport has been cancelled previously GREAT. HOWEVER, IF you from now onwards need any consular service, SC proof required.
-------Those who got OCI printed in Delhi and reached NYC Before May 4 dont need to pay $175, If paid dont ask the money back as they will not refund it.
6) I do not know about the passports that expired prior to 2005. HOWEVER, refer to 5; passport not neccesarily related to SC. cancelled or not for subsequent consualr service YOU NEED PROOF OF SC

7) NC- no need to go through USCIS unless you like CADVI want to literally follow the law, which is also suggested by ANJU KUMAR.
-----NC one can make black and white copy, send them Copy and they dont have problem as they just want to see the date when you got US Citizenship. They are not intrested in your US passport when you applied or got it.
CAVEAT: during NC process, USCIS people told me it is OK for me to copy it for my personal use and I SHOULD COPY IT IN CASE I LOOSE ORIGINAL.

8) I gave 3 copies of SC form ALL ORIGINAL AND NOTORIZED. I AM NOT SURE IF THIS WAS REQUIRED. I AM SURE IF YOU GIVE 1 COPY IT SHOULD WORK AS SOME PEOPLE TODAY HAD 1 COPY ONLY.
----------- For surrender certificate one can give three copies of the form Notarized Or one copy notarized and other two copies made from Notarized form page (still confusion)

IT is a burden if you have to pay a notary for each copy.


HOPE THIS HELPS.

I PERSONALLY, turned in MY SC FORM had the option of pick up or delivery. the cheapskate in me saved $20 and DECIDED PICK UP---DATE GIVEN JUNE 1, still beats their 2 week timeline.
------------------ what is your status? OCI Granted and reached NYC before May 4 or after May 4?

AFTER getting SC, since I do not have rush of travel, will request OCI by mail.
-----any idea how much time they are taking to send the SC those who have sent $175+20 from the date they got envelope with SC fees, Forms. many posted it will be two weeks does it mean 14-15 days from the mailing date one can get SC in mail?.

IF YOU HAVE EMEREGENCY, TODAY CONSULATE WAS ACCEPTING OCI FOR 4TH MAY RECEIPTS; OTHER DATES FOLLOW SC PROCEDURE.
what do you mean by"TODAY CONSULATE WAS ACCEPTING OCI FOR 4TH MAY RECEIPTS"? do you mean if OCI for Mr X was recieved before May 4 at NYC then Mr X collected OCI today and they were giving OCI, U visa today at Window?

YOU CAN DO BOTH TOGETHER, JUST SEND IT IN ONE PLACE -SC with instructions for OCI. AND $20 DOLLARS, ANJU KUMAR'S DEPT will process SC and forward to OCI cell.
----- Do you mean if OCI has reached NYC after May 4 then send SC form+175+ copy of NC+$20+US passport to Anju Kumar Department and write that OCI is with NYC and attach OCI online status page and make a request for SC then once they Stamp SC then give the file to OCI cell to mail the OCI documents. How much time that is going to take to get the OCI, US passport back in hand by mail?
Suggest doing this is YOUR OCI HAS REACHED NY FROM DELHI

ARJUN

You wrote in your earlier Post that you met Prabhu Dayal and Mr Bajaj. Did you take appointment? did you meet Dr, Anju Kumar? Provide the details.
Thanks for the update
Please correct my English grammar

 

[vip1r]

You wrote in your earlier Post that you met Prabhu Dayal and Mr Bajaj. Did you take appointment? did you meet Dr, Anju Kumar? Provide the details.
Thanks for the update
Please correct my English grammar

Mr. Prabhu dayal is the person at the counter. Mr Bajaj came down. I think the cg was himself down below the counter because there were quite a few people upset at the state of affairs and he had to come down. It might not be the cg, but certainly somebody senior. He is the one who was telling his guys to get on with it and the senior guys to come down. One more thing, Mr Bajaj was really good in that he explained the situation in great detail and he was almost apologetic about the situation saying that they are there to implement what is published in the Gazette of India. They dont get to decide what published or not.