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Interview Nightmare, please help!
- Thread starter altaic
- Start date
sanjoseaug20
Registered Users (C)
I know you're discussing with Joe about this, so I just wanted to clarify those statements in their context. I realized that you have been giving the IOs the benefit of the doubt all the time, so don't worry about what I say because you will most likely disagree with everything I have to say. I'm just providing this for Joe if he feels that he needs more information to make a judgement:
No, this is for your benefit too. Yes, maybe I am already biased, so let's move beyond that. Or read my signature ... I have this problem, I think sometimes it is better to show the mirror than give false assurances. It's your luck.
You can always challenge a decision. You can always complain about a government official's attitude. But for you to win ... you need to have a) a pretty strong case, and b) willingness and time/patience/money to take the battle forward. When the complaint is within CIS, the CIS brotherhood will change a 50:50 odds to a 40:60 odds. To go in front of judge, only 1 in 10 people will go forward even if it was completely open and shut case (stats made up, not real).
I still do not see a case where the IO or supervisor mis-behaved. Maybe they were a bit out of line ... but that's about it. And they can play up their side of the story in any complaint hearing. From my reading of the story so far, this is what I see, and it ain't big.
==> They were not satisfied with the evidence.
==> They asked you for more
==> You did not have any
==> You argued.
==> They argued back.
You should focus on getting the documents ...
No, this is for your benefit too. Yes, maybe I am already biased, so let's move beyond that. Or read my signature ... I have this problem, I think sometimes it is better to show the mirror than give false assurances. It's your luck.
You can always challenge a decision. You can always complain about a government official's attitude. But for you to win ... you need to have a) a pretty strong case, and b) willingness and time/patience/money to take the battle forward. When the complaint is within CIS, the CIS brotherhood will change a 50:50 odds to a 40:60 odds. To go in front of judge, only 1 in 10 people will go forward even if it was completely open and shut case (stats made up, not real).
I still do not see a case where the IO or supervisor mis-behaved. Maybe they were a bit out of line ... but that's about it. And they can play up their side of the story in any complaint hearing. From my reading of the story so far, this is what I see, and it ain't big.
==> They were not satisfied with the evidence.
==> They asked you for more
==> You did not have any
==> You argued.
==> They argued back.
You should focus on getting the documents ...
Yeah, I'm getting the so-called court certified document in the mail. But I didn't call back quick enough to include a second copy. But after hearing all this, I'm wondering if sending them a copy by mail will do anything except expedite this process from August 29th.
When I get the document, I'll share with you guys how it looks and what it has to see if it is good enough for these guys.
This whole ordeal has been a horrible process though. What I thought to be a no-brainer has turned out to be the worst excesses of bureaucracy I've seen. If they are going to be this strict with me even though I'm just like any American save for citizenship status, then they should beef up everything else. The thought that people with poor knowledge of English, US customs and culture, etc. are becoming citizens with questions like "What ocean is to the east of the US?" and writing down "We pay taxes" while I wait is too much for me. I see their standards are very low on that front, so this one area of strictness is bugging me.
I have been following this thread for sometime now.
to OP: whether you would like to be classified into a "traditional" immigrant or not, reality is that that's what you are. Whether your choice or someone else made that choice for you it doesn't matter. You decided to take green card and continued down path to get US citizenship. Process is same; whether you are here for x number of years from age y has no impact of what so ever.
Here is quote i thought is appropriate; this is from movie As good as it gets;Melvin Udall character in the movie played by Jack Nicholson ".....What makes it so hard is not that you had it bad, but that you're that pissed that so many others had it good. "
Many of us had to take certified court documents to citizenship interview; it is an interview with process emphasized. American way is ask when in doubt, not argue.
Any citizen of any country can perceive to be an American (behavior, culture, etc) except being an American citizen (either by birth or by naturalization).
to OP: whether you would like to be classified into a "traditional" immigrant or not, reality is that that's what you are. Whether your choice or someone else made that choice for you it doesn't matter. You decided to take green card and continued down path to get US citizenship. Process is same; whether you are here for x number of years from age y has no impact of what so ever.
Here is quote i thought is appropriate; this is from movie As good as it gets;Melvin Udall character in the movie played by Jack Nicholson ".....What makes it so hard is not that you had it bad, but that you're that pissed that so many others had it good. "
Many of us had to take certified court documents to citizenship interview; it is an interview with process emphasized. American way is ask when in doubt, not argue.
Any citizen of any country can perceive to be an American (behavior, culture, etc) except being an American citizen (either by birth or by naturalization).
I have been following this thread for sometime now.
to OP: whether you would like to be classified into a "traditional" immigrant or not, reality is that that's what you are. Whether your choice or someone else made that choice for you it doesn't matter. You decided to take green card and continued down path to get US citizenship. Process is same; whether you are here for x number of years from age y has no impact of what so ever.
Here is quote i thought is appropriate; this is from movie As good as it gets;Melvin Udall character in the movie played by Jack Nicholson ".....What makes it so hard is not that you had it bad, but that you're that pissed that so many others had it good. "
Many of us had to take certified court documents to citizenship interview; it is an interview with process emphasized. American way is ask when in doubt, not argue.
Any citizen of any country can perceive to be an American (behavior, culture, etc) except being an American citizen (either by birth or by naturalization).
Yeah, I heard these sociological puzzles before many times.
I've already accepted the fact that someone born on the fringe border of Mexico-USA with no English nor any knowledge of WASP culture while growing up here is more American than I am.
I've also already recognized the fact that people who have very little knowledge of US customs and history who just came here a couple of years ago are becoming US citizens before me.
I find it all a bad joke, but the fact is that it is a reality in this country. No big deal. I just had hoped that my route to citizenship would not have been any worse than the aforementioned.
P.S. Perception is completely different from enculturation.
P.S.S. Please don't try to paint arguing as a distinct cultural trait, it just comes off as strange at best, ethnocentric at worst.
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davidyoung
Registered Users (C)
Yeah, I heard these sociological puzzles before many times.
I've already accepted the fact that someone born on the fringe border of Mexico-USA with no English nor any knowledge of WASP culture while growing up here is more American than I am.
I've also already recognized the fact that people who have very little knowledge of US customs and history who just came here a couple of years ago are becoming US citizens before me.
I find it all a bad joke, but the fact is that it is a reality in this country. No big deal. I just had hoped that my route to citizenship would not have been any worse than the aforementioned.
P.S. Perception is completely different from enculturation.
P.S.S. Please don't try to paint arguing as a distinct cultural trait, it just comes off as strange at best, ethnocentric at worst.
In my opinion, you do not listen to people that are honest with you. Stop your “I know it all attitude” and face reality. I guess you are right, you’re not “typical immigrant”. If you are, you would not have been in this situation. You would have noticed on the N400 instructions the emphasized over and over. CERTIFIED COPIES of documents. And with your knowledge of knowing who and what AVERAGE AMERICAN can do and also know TYPICAL IMMIGRANT and unwilling immigrant. I assumed you should know the difference between a document and certified copy of the document.
I hope you have stopped urinating in public as you think everybody does it and it’s okay. I personally grew up in a country that you can urinate in public. I have been living here for 14 years and never done it once.
Someone born “fringe border of Mexico-USA with no English nor any knowledge of WASP culture” understand that peeing in public is nasty and if everyone does that everywhere would be nasty.
I hope you can learn not to think you’re better than some other people or you’re of different species. I pray very soon you will join the club of your so called “Average American”. Stop thinking your experience was the worst.
So you know, my cousin’s citizenship application was denied for no just reason. The IO never gave him impression his case would be denied, just told him he passed but needed a copy of his daughter’s birth certificate. A few weeks later he was denied. Of course he got a lawyer and appealed. He has been waiting after appealing in November 2010.
You should realize you’re not in a bad shape, just give them what they want and don’t turn interview into a court that you argue a case. Interview is Question by IO and Answer by applicant.
Good Luck
Allow me to play the devil's advocate for a moment. Let's suppose that a person is walking home at night, with every public establishment closed for the day, and the nature happens to call. The person tries to control their urge, succeeding for a couple of blocks. However, with the person's home another 15 blocks away, he/she is physically unable to hold it in any longer, so he/she steps into a dark corner and urinates. Unfortunately for this person, he/she urinated in full view of a detective, who happened to be sitting across the street in an unmarked car. After the person finishes their business, the detective steps out of the car, flashes his badge, and issues the person a ticket for public urination.
In no way do I condone public urination, but, in certain circumstances, it becomes necessary to break laws, even though Americans never break them (I guess Americans never speed, jaywalk, run stop signs, file their taxes late, etc.). I'm sure that the OP is not a serial public urinator - he just happened to make a choice between ducking into a dark corner or urinating in his pants. No need to revile him over it.
In no way do I condone public urination, but, in certain circumstances, it becomes necessary to break laws, even though Americans never break them (I guess Americans never speed, jaywalk, run stop signs, file their taxes late, etc.). I'm sure that the OP is not a serial public urinator - he just happened to make a choice between ducking into a dark corner or urinating in his pants. No need to revile him over it.
Jackolantern
Registered Users (C)
Allow me to play the devil's advocate for a moment. Let's suppose that a person is walking home at night, with every public establishment closed for the day, and the nature happens to call. The person tries to control their urge, succeeding for a couple of blocks. However, with the person's home another 15 blocks away, he/she is physically unable to hold it in any longer, so he/she steps into a dark corner and urinates. Unfortunately for this person, he/she urinated in full view of a detective, who happened to be sitting across the street in an unmarked car. After the person finishes their business, the detective steps out of the car, flashes his badge, and issues the person a ticket for public urination.
In no way do I condone public urination, but, in certain circumstances, it becomes necessary to break laws, even though Americans never break them (I guess Americans never speed, jaywalk, run stop signs, file their taxes late, etc.). I'm sure that the OP is not a serial public urinator - he just happened to make a choice between ducking into a dark corner or urinating in his pants. No need to revile him over it.
The problem here is that trying to provide a justification or otherwise make light of a violation of the law when speaking to a government official who has authority over your situation is like begging the bull to charge at you. From their perspective, it's as if you're unremorsefully disrespecting the law to their face, even though you and I and even they know that the offense is a minor thing on the level of what common Americans do.
In this particular case, it happened on a college campus, so it's almost certain that there was an available bathroom nearby and "couldn't hold it" doesn't apply.
In this particular case, it happened on a college campus, so it's almost certain that there was an available bathroom nearby and "couldn't hold it" doesn't apply.
The OP never mentioned it happened on campus. He said it happened while in college.
You would have noticed on the N400 instructions the emphasized over and over. CERTIFIED COPIES of documents. And with your knowledge of knowing who and what AVERAGE AMERICAN can do and also know TYPICAL IMMIGRANT and unwilling immigrant. I assumed you should know the difference between a document and certified copy of the document.
You did not meet the evidence requirements which are spelled out in the form instructions and the Guide as to 1.) the required certified court disposition and 2.) the legal references pertaining to the charges and penalty. Was there a fine or community service, or probation?
Per the document checklist in the guide:
If you have ever been arrested or detained by any law enforcement officer for any reason, and charges were filed, send:
An original or court-certified copy of the complete arrest record and disposition for each incident (dismissal order, conviction
record or acquittal order).
http://www.uscis.gov/files/article/M-476.pdf
Considering the OP provided an original court disposition listing the charge, conviction and fine and he was informed by the PA court it's what has been accepted by other agencies in the past he had every reason to believe it was an acceptable document. For God sake stop trying to crucify the OP and accept the interview incident as an example of poor customer service at USCIS.
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Jackolantern
Registered Users (C)
The OP never mentioned it happened on campus. He said it happened while in college.
In post #3 the OP's mention of the college police means it almost surely happened on campus.
Per the document checklist in the guide:
If you have ever been arrested or detained by any law enforcement officer for any reason, and charges were filed, send:
An original or court-certified copy of the complete arrest record and disposition for each incident (dismissal order, conviction
record or acquittal order).
http://www.uscis.gov/files/article/M-476.pdf
Considering the OP provided an original court disposition listing the charge, conviction and fine and he was informed by the PA court it's what has been accepted by other agencies in the past he had every reason to believe it was an acceptable document. For God sake stop trying to crucify the OP and accept the interview incident as an example of poor customer service at USCIS.
Original as in when this charge was settled (paid, disposition, etc). Any other document issued there after will not be same. That is the reason for option to provide certified copies.
The problem here is that trying to provide a justification or otherwise make light of a violation of the law when speaking to a government official who has authority over your situation is like begging the bull to charge at you. From their perspective, it's as if you're unremorsefully disrespecting the law to their face, even though you and I and even they know that the offense is a minor thing on the level of what common Americans do.
Having lived in NYC the majority of my life, I can't help but agree. When dealing with anyone in position of authority, particularly someone who can make your life extremely diffucult (these people are well aware of this and will do it without batting an eyelash), it's better to "yes sir/ma'am" them to death, even if they are completely wrong. After you're done dealing with this person, then, and only then, file a complaint with the internal investigation authority.
In this particular case, it happened on a college campus, so it's almost certain that there was an available bathroom nearby and "couldn't hold it" doesn't apply.
When I was in college, certain buildings were over a mile away from the rest of the campus. Even if the OP was on campus, it's still very much possible that he couldn't hold it in.
davidyoung
Registered Users (C)
Per the document checklist in the guide:
If you have ever been arrested or detained by any law enforcement officer for any reason, and charges were filed, send:
An original or court-certified copy of the complete arrest record and disposition for each incident (dismissal order, conviction
record or acquittal order).
http://www.uscis.gov/files/article/M-476.pdf
Considering the OP provided an original court disposition listing the charge, conviction and fine and he was informed by the PA court it's what has been accepted by other agencies in the past he had every reason to believe it was an acceptable document. For God sake stop trying to crucify the OP and accept the interview incident as an example of poor customer service at USCIS.
And for God’s sake Bobsmyth stop being disingenuous to the OP, nobody is crucifying him. The OP said he does not have the luxury of time and you’re taking him to the part of a long haul. You wanted to see what you wanted to see in the instruction link that you provided, guess what? Here is the actual instruction for N400:
http://www.uscis.gov/files/form/n-400instr.pdf
Here is what the instructions state “Depending on the circumstances, some applicants must send certain documents with their application. For example, if you have been arrested or convicted of a crime, you must send a certified copy of the arrest report, court disposition, sentencing, and any other relevant documents, including any countervailing evidence concerning the circumstances of your arrest or conviction that you would like USCIS to consider.”
There is no reason to twist or provide a different meaning to the word ORIGINAL. When you talk about original in the context of documents, it means “Not derived from something else, not a printout, not a copy and if it’s going to be a copy, then must be certified.
I am sure if the OP requested for original or court-certified copy from PA. They would have sent certified copies. On the issue of poor customer service, that can be anywhere, banks, gas station, doctor’s office, stores, you name it. The thing is if you’re not getting the kind of service you think you deserve, you have the option to take your business elsewhere, in the OP situation. He can file complaint, being confrontational will not cut it especially when OP does not have the luxury of time.
I have reasons to accuse IO too, I had my application denied 2 years ago due to my wife not updating her address on her W2. I chose not to pay 600+ to appeal and waited to get citizenship this year. My cousin was denied because the IO accused him of having a child outside of wedlock. And mind you this child was born before my cousin got married and did not even know about the kid until she turned 3. Now he’s been waiting since Nov, 2010 for appeal.
I’m sure everyone from NY to Cali to Arizona has reason to complain about IO, but we can either use the proper channel to fight back or let the sleeping dog lie.
I am not taking side on this discussion, just providing my layman’s opinion. And since you’re in the OP’s corner, it will be helpful if you can suggest to him to stop all his analogies about “fringe border of Mexico-USA with no English nor any knowledge of WASP culture” and “Typical Immigrants”.
sanjoseaug20
Registered Users (C)
Alright, let OP do his business (no, not that one, collect the documents I mean). Other things are secondary.
The same N-400 instructions state :"For more information on the documents you must send see the document checklist in the guide"Here is the actual instruction for N400:
http://www.uscis.gov/files/form/n-400instr.pdf
Consider the following:
1) Document checklist states original court documents or certified copies.
2) OP was told by the PA courts that it's the only type of document they provide in such instances and that it's been accepted in the past by other agencies
3) IO decided to schedule a second interview almost 3 months after first and have OP hand deliver it instead of just requesting the evidence sooner by mail as is typically done in such cases
4) OP is trying to adjust wife's status
5) IOs demeanor at interview was engaging instead of servicing. There was no point in going into a lengthy discussion and twisting the OP's words except to demonstrate the IO's authority
Conclusion: OP has every right to be, pardon the pun, pissed. I recognize his off color analogies as frustration, not personal attacks towards Hispanics or other immigrants.
If someone were to respond to you that your wife should have known better to update her W2 or that your cousin should have known better by using protection, would you take it lightly and not share your frustrations?
So_Special
Registered Users (C)
I know I'm jumping on this thread a bit late but I did take the time to read it in it's entirety before drawing some conclusions based on what has been said so far. My impression of the OP is he's very arrogant and appears to feel entitled because he's not like your "typical immigrant". Even in some of his comments here, he appears somewhat condescending. I got news for the OP, like it has been stated before, the documents you presented were simply insufficient. You do not have the right to compare yourself to any other American while seeking American benefits because the truth of the matter is ... You are NOT an American. You do not hold an American passport. Please stop this entitlement foolishness of yours and do what is asked of you.
I'm not trying to be rude or harsh but who really knows whats in the documents. USCIS requirements ask for original documents and/or certified copies (with raised seal). Not something Joe Schmoe typed with his Smith Corona typewriter and mail to you.
The I/O and his/her supervisor probably felt the same arrogant sense of entitlement from you and even comparing yourself to Americans as a major turn off. Get a grip my friend.
I'm not trying to be rude or harsh but who really knows whats in the documents. USCIS requirements ask for original documents and/or certified copies (with raised seal). Not something Joe Schmoe typed with his Smith Corona typewriter and mail to you.
The I/O and his/her supervisor probably felt the same arrogant sense of entitlement from you and even comparing yourself to Americans as a major turn off. Get a grip my friend.
niceguy_nyus
Registered Users (C)
Interview Nightmare
altaic
I had a similar issue. I went for interview in Feb and the officer asked for court disposition. I went back to the court and got the court disposition. They charged me ten dollars each. I was called for re interview on April. I submitted the documents. File was sent for supervisory approval. I got an email after the 120 day period that my file is now under post decision activity. I should get a letter in mail. I am waiting on that now.
I would suggest that you get the court disposition and you should be fine. The court disposition has the stamp and they have a seal that emboses the paper and they will check that embose on the paper. Submit it and wait for the 90 day period from the date of the original interview and take it from there. I think you have to get it right the first time. If you give them a chance to find mistakes you did not prepare well enough for the interview. Good luck and hope that you get your OL soon.
altaic
I had a similar issue. I went for interview in Feb and the officer asked for court disposition. I went back to the court and got the court disposition. They charged me ten dollars each. I was called for re interview on April. I submitted the documents. File was sent for supervisory approval. I got an email after the 120 day period that my file is now under post decision activity. I should get a letter in mail. I am waiting on that now.
I would suggest that you get the court disposition and you should be fine. The court disposition has the stamp and they have a seal that emboses the paper and they will check that embose on the paper. Submit it and wait for the 90 day period from the date of the original interview and take it from there. I think you have to get it right the first time. If you give them a chance to find mistakes you did not prepare well enough for the interview. Good luck and hope that you get your OL soon.
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Hey guys, long time no response. Last time I tried to enter this site and google marked it as being a malicious site, so I was unable to re-enter. Now that my re-interview date is drawing near, I guess it's a good idea to go over the documents with you guys.
Also, while I was browsing over the previous comments, I seem to have received a lot of negative comments against me. Some of them were especially douchey but what do you expect from a bunch of strangers on the internet, no harm no foul. I'm not going to lose sleep or feel hurt because some butt-hurt posters said negative things about my character, how they never break the law, that peeing in public is the worst thing on the planet, etc etc. I know in my mind and heart that what I did was not a terrible act by any means and that some douchey people here have gone out of their way to make it seem worse than it is. So, go ahead and keep demonizing me for it, I'll just know in the back of my head that high schoolers are dealing drugs on the street or the recent rampage in Philly over the weekend. I'm a big picture kind of guy, so I'll let the small minded people go ahead and trash talk.
So now that I've addressed my detractors, aka unhelpful people, I would like to review the documents I received. The document that was given to me was exactly the same as the previous documents. Thankfully, it does have a raised seal on it. But wanting to be extra careful, I have noticed it is only one of the pages, the last one. The document consists of three separate pages. Will this suffice?
Also, while I was browsing over the previous comments, I seem to have received a lot of negative comments against me. Some of them were especially douchey but what do you expect from a bunch of strangers on the internet, no harm no foul. I'm not going to lose sleep or feel hurt because some butt-hurt posters said negative things about my character, how they never break the law, that peeing in public is the worst thing on the planet, etc etc. I know in my mind and heart that what I did was not a terrible act by any means and that some douchey people here have gone out of their way to make it seem worse than it is. So, go ahead and keep demonizing me for it, I'll just know in the back of my head that high schoolers are dealing drugs on the street or the recent rampage in Philly over the weekend. I'm a big picture kind of guy, so I'll let the small minded people go ahead and trash talk.
So now that I've addressed my detractors, aka unhelpful people, I would like to review the documents I received. The document that was given to me was exactly the same as the previous documents. Thankfully, it does have a raised seal on it. But wanting to be extra careful, I have noticed it is only one of the pages, the last one. The document consists of three separate pages. Will this suffice?