Interview Nightmare, please help!

altaic

Registered Users (C)
Hey everyone, new user here! :)

I really thought I wouldn't have to come here only unless I needed very serious help.

My story goes like this: I went to my interview yesterday, June 2nd 2011, on time, no problem here.

When I get to my interview, I am met with a very rude and stickler of an immigration officer. I really thought there would be no problems since I had all my documents and everything prepared.

Everything went smoothly until we got to my "criminal record" history. He asked me if I had court documents for these two cases I had. For the first one, a rather silly one, I showed an MTA disposition for sitting on the platform stairs at 2 am June 2006. No issue.

Then I gave him a docket transcript sent from a Centre County, PA local court to show that I settled a public urination charge when I was in college in January 2009. Now I know this is an embarrassing mistake, but I had no idea of the implications it would bring to this interview. I did research concerning moral turpitude and good moral conduct, and I read from legal opinions that this certain violation wouldn't be enough to hold me back. I even read civil lawsuits are not really of a concern to IOs, what a terrible assumption!

First, the officer dismissed the court document as insufficient, even though it was the original court disposition that was sent to me by the court office. He would continue my case until August 29, 2011, a huge setback for me because I am married and would like to have my wife some sort of legal status soon.

I told the IO that I was surprised that they didn't accept the court order, even for something that I thought was a civil offense, not criminal. He then proceeded to tell me that it was a misdemeanor in NYC, even though my case was in PA. I then had to tell him that Disorderly Conduct was not moral turpitude, so I didn't know why I was being questioned on terms of morality. He then told me the document stated physical hazard/liquids on the charge, and that he didn't know what that was. I then asked that I thought I would be compared to the average American so I didn't know why I was being treated so harshly for a minor offense. He then remarked that it was nice of me to think average Americans urinate in public, not what I meant at all, mind you. He said he would check with the supervisors on the authenticity of the court document. Of course, the supervisors rejected the court document and told me to get an approved document for August 29th.

The only problem was I called the local court office numerous times and they told me that's the only court document they send. That they wouldn't change their standards for me. They told me this was the first time anyone had a problem with this.

When I went back to the supervisor to speak to him about this, he was just deaf to the situation. He kept demanding such court documents based on a national legal standard which apparently this court wasn't following. He then proceeded to tell me to go all the way to PA to get this required document. So I balked at this order and called it unreasonable. Then he proceeded to say I did the crime and continued demonizing me for my violation, like I was a real criminal. I didn't appreciate that and told him that everyone makes mistakes, why was I being demonized for something that's not even a criminal offense in PA and that could have happened to regular Americans as well. Of course, everyone there feels that Americans are perfect and commit no offenses, so he ended the discussion and told me to get that document.

All of this wouldn't be so bad if I hadn't called the local court office and have them tell me that they wouldn't produce such a document even if I came there physically. Feeling as if I had no options, I contacted the Ombudsman and am awaiting his/her response. I am considering to call my district representative and ask for their help on this.

Having read this, is there anything else I can do? I would not like to wait until August 29 because I felt I was continued unfairly since I had original documentation to prove I settled my case. But if that is my only choice, how do I go about getting this required document when even the local court won't provide it???

PLEASE HELP!!! lol, sorry, I'm just that frustrated.
 
It sounds like they need a document showing the exact charge. You should be able to get that from the PA police department that levied the charge against you.
Also, ask the court for a document showing the exact charge under the law (ex.Disorderly conduct). Print out the exact statute you were charged under PA law and include that with the document(s).
 
Right. But the court document I had had detailed everything. What the exact charge was, what my plea was, who were the participants, when I was scheduled to appear in court, what the outcome was(case closed), showed my payment had been fulfilled and where my payment would be allocated to the appropriate government bodies. The docket is from the College Police Department, with their letterhead, official symbol, etc. It was a comprehensive and original document sent straight from the College PD.

I received a reply from the Ombudsman just now and that my case has been assigned to an Immigration Law Analyst. I will talk to my District Representative during my lunchtime. I appreciate your quick reply but I have produced the exact document that you told me that I needed. So besides this document which I gave in already, what could I possibly do?

I think the problem is that this police document just wasn't "good enough" for the supervisor's standards because it didn't include the bells and whistles of an embossed insignia, wet/dry stamp, seal, or whatever kind of thingamajig legal decoration they wanted. My problem is that the College Police Department said that this is what they give and should be good enough, even for the federal government, and that they won't accommodate my situation.
 
It looks like they're going to deny you out of some other hidden agenda, even though you will win on an appeal.

But it's better to get a lawyer and have the lawyer send a letter or something to substantiate that what you provided is sufficient. With a lawyer on your side they'll see it's not going to be so easy to bully you.
 
What would this hidden agenda be though? My race or something? I just don't get it. And a lawyer is prohibitively expensive, is this really the only option I have? I know a lawyer is a great asset to have but I just couldn't afford one so I tried to do this all by myself and now I'm getting burned. I feel like the only way to get what they want is to harass the local State College Police Department for a better document, but that sounds like bad news as well.

Are there free lawyers whom I can speak with that can take care of such an easy matter for me? I would appreciate your knowledge, information, and experience.
 
What would this hidden agenda be though? My race or something? I just don't get it. And a lawyer is prohibitively expensive, is this really the only option I have? I know a lawyer is a great asset to have but I just couldn't afford one so I tried to do this all by myself and now I'm getting burned. I feel like the only way to get what they want is to harass the local State College Police Department for a better document, but that sounds like bad news as well.

Are there free lawyers whom I can speak with that can take care of such an easy matter for me? I would appreciate your knowledge, information, and experience.

It's pure speculation as to what their motive is. NYC is known to have some unfriendly/harsh IOs since their case volume is high.
Did the IOs give you any sort of document stating what you specifically need or was it all verbal?
 
I am not sure you have the right document.
On one hand you are saying "court document", on the other hand you say "college police document". I do not think they could be the same.
Also I am not sure what is the difference between college police and city/state police. It may matter to CIS.
 
It's pure speculation as to what their motive is. NYC is known to have some unfriendly/harsh IOs since their case volume is high.
Did the IOs give you any sort of document stating what you specifically need or was it all verbal?

I got a paper saying I need to bring in an ::eek:riginal:: court certified disposition, otherwise my application would be denied. I don't know what else they could be asking for because the document I handed to them was exactly that.
 
What would this hidden agenda be though? My race or something?
Yes.

I just don't get it. And a lawyer is prohibitively expensive, is this really the only option I have?

Cost for the lawyer to send a letter would be $100 to a few hundred bucks, not thousands.

The idea to let them know you have a lawyer in your corner, so they don't get the impression that they can just walk over you and wrongfully deny you without a fight.

But first you need to make sure the documents you provided are indeed sufficient, and the USCIS officers were wrong. If the documents are from college police and not the court system, that's probably not good enough.
 
I am not sure you have the right document.
On one hand you are saying "court document", on the other hand you say "college police document". I do not think they could be the same.
Also I am not sure what is the difference between college police and city/state police. It may matter to CIS.

Well, the office from where I got the document is this:

Jonathan D. Grine
State College, College PD

On this docket it reads on the letterhead:

Magisterial District Judge 49-3-05


When I called the magistrate, I asked if I could get another document elsewhere, and they told me that would be impossible because I was processed through their department so all my information is with them.
 
Yes.



Cost for the lawyer to send a letter would be $100 to a few hundred bucks, not thousands.

The idea to let them know you have a lawyer in your corner, so they don't get the impression that they can just walk over you and wrongfully deny you without a fight.

But first you need to make sure the documents you provided are indeed sufficient, and the USCIS officers were wrong. If the documents are from college police and not the court system, that's probably not good enough.

I know for sure that it's from the exact court that I was tried. And the letterhead says it's from the courts. The only problem is that it did not meet USCIS requirements. So they are basically telling me the court's disposition is not good enough. Who is at fault here, that I need to get figured out.
 
Altaic, according to you and I quote “it didn't include the bells and whistles of an embossed insignia, wet/dry stamp, seal, or whatever kind of thingamajig legal decoration they wanted”.
This means you already know what they required. I think they want certified copies of the court documents. A print out or writing documents with court logo will not do it. I advice you make the trip to the PA court house and get a certified copy, though you might have to pay like a couple of bucks for it.
Also, I advice that you stop creating an idea that you have a sense of resentment by using “could have happened to regular Americans as well”, “I would be compared to the average American so I didn't know why I was being treated so harshly for a minor offense”.
Sometimes IO gets things wrong and also can get cranky sometimes. Imposing and forcing might get you want you want eventually if they have no real basis to deny you, but it may prolong the time for you to get what you want.

Please note: I am not a lawyer. Just a regular member of the forum as you and just providing personal opinion.
 
Well, the office from where I got the document is this:

Jonathan D. Grine
State College, College PD

On this docket it reads on the letterhead:

Magisterial District Judge 49-3-05


When I called the magistrate, I asked if I could get another document elsewhere, and they told me that would be impossible because I was processed through their department so all my information is with them.

They should be able to provide you with a raised seal document or something that attests it is certified and true.
 
Hey everyone, new user here! :)

I really thought I wouldn't have to come here only unless I needed very serious help.

My story goes like this: I went to my interview yesterday, June 2nd 2011, on time, no problem here.

When I get to my interview, I am met with a very rude and stickler of an immigration officer. I really thought there would be no problems since I had all my documents and everything prepared.

Everything went smoothly until we got to my "criminal record" history. He asked me if I had court documents for these two cases I had. For the first one, a rather silly one, I showed an MTA disposition for sitting on the platform stairs at 2 am June 2006. No issue.

Then I gave him a docket transcript sent from a Centre County, PA local court to show that I settled a public urination charge when I was in college in January 2009. Now I know this is an embarrassing mistake, but I had no idea of the implications it would bring to this interview. I did research concerning moral turpitude and good moral conduct, and I read from legal opinions that this certain violation wouldn't be enough to hold me back. I even read civil lawsuits are not really of a concern to IOs, what a terrible assumption!

First, the officer dismissed the court document as insufficient, even though it was the original court disposition that was sent to me by the court office. He would continue my case until August 29, 2011, a huge setback for me because I am married and would like to have my wife some sort of legal status soon.

I told the IO that I was surprised that they didn't accept the court order, even for something that I thought was a civil offense, not criminal. He then proceeded to tell me that it was a misdemeanor in NYC, even though my case was in PA. I then had to tell him that Disorderly Conduct was not moral turpitude, so I didn't know why I was being questioned on terms of morality. He then told me the document stated physical hazard/liquids on the charge, and that he didn't know what that was. I then asked that I thought I would be compared to the average American so I didn't know why I was being treated so harshly for a minor offense. He then remarked that it was nice of me to think average Americans urinate in public, not what I meant at all, mind you. He said he would check with the supervisors on the authenticity of the court document. Of course, the supervisors rejected the court document and told me to get an approved document for August 29th.

The only problem was I called the local court office numerous times and they told me that's the only court document they send. That they wouldn't change their standards for me. They told me this was the first time anyone had a problem with this.

When I went back to the supervisor to speak to him about this, he was just deaf to the situation. He kept demanding such court documents based on a national legal standard which apparently this court wasn't following. He then proceeded to tell me to go all the way to PA to get this required document. So I balked at this order and called it unreasonable. Then he proceeded to say I did the crime and continued demonizing me for my violation, like I was a real criminal. I didn't appreciate that and told him that everyone makes mistakes, why was I being demonized for something that's not even a criminal offense in PA and that could have happened to regular Americans as well. Of course, everyone there feels that Americans are perfect and commit no offenses, so he ended the discussion and told me to get that document.

All of this wouldn't be so bad if I hadn't called the local court office and have them tell me that they wouldn't produce such a document even if I came there physically. Feeling as if I had no options, I contacted the Ombudsman and am awaiting his/her response. I am considering to call my district representative and ask for their help on this.

Having read this, is there anything else I can do? I would not like to wait until August 29 because I felt I was continued unfairly since I had original documentation to prove I settled my case. But if that is my only choice, how do I go about getting this required document when even the local court won't provide it???

PLEASE HELP!!! lol, sorry, I'm just that frustrated.

Hellow! Slow down...You still continue unirating in public...You had your interview in June second and you are causing all this fuss on June 3rd. You need to patient. Your interview went well, and you will get your citizenship soon.

The your violation wether criminal or civil took place outside of the jurisdiction of the officer. The officer seems not to understand the whole issue of your case. therefore, he wants to have time to review the case. Give him some time...August is not that far, and some times decisions might be made before that...In the case of the specific court documentation request, you will have turn that in to them. Google the court..some courts will process some document online or over the phone and mail the paperwork. If they don't have that option, then you will have to travel there....a little bit of politeness and patience will solve the issue, neither of which you not showing will do it.
 
Altaic, according to you and I quote “it didn't include the bells and whistles of an embossed insignia, wet/dry stamp, seal, or whatever kind of thingamajig legal decoration they wanted”.
This means you already know what they required. I think they want certified copies of the court documents. A print out or writing documents with court logo will not do it. I advice you make the trip to the PA court house and get a certified copy, though you might have to pay like a couple of bucks for it.
Also, I advice that you stop creating an idea that you have a sense of resentment by using “could have happened to regular Americans as well”, “I would be compared to the average American so I didn't know why I was being treated so harshly for a minor offense”.
Sometimes IO gets things wrong and also can get cranky sometimes. Imposing and forcing might get you want you want eventually if they have no real basis to deny you, but it may prolong the time for you to get what you want.

Please note: I am not a lawyer. Just a regular member of the forum as you and just providing personal opinion.


I did not know that's exactly what they wanted prior to the interview(embossed insignia, wet/dry stamp, seal, or whatever), I gathered that after they rejected my original court document. Unfortunate, but it would've been helpful if they could have been more specific, considering that I was receiving legit documents from the court office.
 
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They should be able to provide you with a raised seal document or something that attests it is certified and true.

Yeah, I called them and they said they would send something out again this time, but they were still confused as to what USCIS wanted. If this document they send me this time does not work out, I wouldn't know what to do.
 
Yeah, I called them and they said they would send something out again this time, but they were still confused as to what USCIS wanted. If this document they send me this time does not work out, I wouldn't know what to do.

Did they say how it would differ from previous document? (ex: raised seal or certified statement on document)
 
Did they say how it would differ from previous document? (ex: raised seal or certified statement on document)

Well, they said something to that extent, and I am writing down how they should do it on my letter to them. But I am depending on their ability to make this work.

This all just makes me disappointed and frustrated because I wanted to adjust my wife's status as soon as possible. Postponing to August just delays this even more and I thought I finally got it this time around because a June decision would've been perfect.

But all I can do now is wait for the document and go in August. I already spoke with the Ombudsman about this, due to earlier confusion, and I have a lawyer's contact. I also was frustrated with the Supervisor on how condescending he was, do you think he would use that as an excuse to deny me? I only got upset because I thought they just weren't listening to me and ignoring the fact that I did the best I could do, and just kept blaming me for doing what I did, making me feel evil, deviant, criminal, etc.
 
I would send in the required documents ASAP by certified mail. There's no need to wait until August 29 since the 120 day after interview clock is already ticking. Attach a letter indicating that you are providing the required certified documents and that you expect per the law for your case to be adjudicated within the 120 days after your first interview and that you are waiting to adjust your wife's status. Consider consulting a lawyer to draft the letter for you if you're not well versed in the specific immigration laws.
 
I would send in the required documents ASAP by certified mail. There's no need to wait until August 29 since the 120 day after interview clock is already ticking. Attach a letter indicating that you are providing the required certified documents and that you expect per the law for your case to be adjudicated within the 120 days after your first interview and that you are waiting to adjust your wife's status. Consider consulting a lawyer to draft the letter for you if you're not well versed in the specific immigration laws.

Bobsmyth, if what you are saying is true, then you would have been the biggest help to me so far! I really thought I was doomed to wait until August 29th because the IO told me there is no way I can do this sooner.

What is the process of expediting this when I finally receive the authentic court document? To whom would I send it to exactly? Would the receiving party of the court document act on it as soon as they receive it, or would they still wait until August 29? Of course, I will speak with the lawyer contact I have, but it would be nice to know if you have some of that knowledge.

Also, I don't understand the 120 days countdown. Even though August 29th would be before that deadline, the IO said a decision wouldn't be made even then. But that only affords them until September 30 to make a decision according to the 120 day countdown. Do I get screwed if they don't make a decision by then, even after I would have handed them the documents on or before August 29th?
 
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