Immigrants return back to Indian, China to find prosperity

Each country should and must provide its citizens the basic necessity of life (electricity, clean water and clean air) over anything else, which America does provide to its citizens. India has been spending trillions of dollars on its infrastructure across the country, but did not even think to provide the basic necessity to its own citizen.

I recently traveled to a posh neighborhood in New Delhi wherein I experienced mosquitos everywhere and electricity outage was pretty much 20 times a day. This happened in a very posh and expensive neighborhood, so one can imagine how the situation would be in other neighborhoods. Having billions in population and diversity in the population is not the defense nor should be an excuse not to provide the basic needs to its own citizens especially when govt. has been spending trillions of dollars on country's intrastructure. Besides, Indian govt has NEVER taken any step in providing basic needs to its own citizen...NEVER except they just recently controlled polluted air a bit in last 3 years when international organizations made noises on how bad air is in India. Nobody is going to hear your voice in India if you are poor.
 
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ATLANTA_N400 said:
According to top economists( now start with me :p) , The current economic crisis in the middle east and all over the world will benefit india in many folds.

1) Capital inflow because India has a nationalized banking system and reliable capital market( forget about Satyam, the government did not need 24 hours to take it over, no drama by the politicians in the congress).
2) man-power inflow - You know why.

I think will see some remarkable improvements over the next five years, if "The Indians" choose to elect their next leadership wisely .
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Depends on who you're reading. Out there, India is facing many problems, much like everyone else.
 
JohnnyCash said:
Each country should and must provide their citizens the basic necessity of life (electricity, clean water and clean air) over anything else, which America does to its citizen. India can spend trillions of dollars on its infrastructure across the country, but cannot even think to provide the basic necessity to its citizen.

I recently traveled to a posh neighborhood in New Delhi wherein I experienced mosquitos everywhere and electricity outage was pretty much 20 times a day. This happened in a very posh and expensive neighborhood, so one can imagine how the situation would be in other neighborhoods. Having billions in population and diversity in the population is not the defense nor should be an excuse not to provide the basic needs to its own citizens especially when govt. has been spending trillions of dollars on country's intrastructure. Besides, Indian govt has NEVER taken any step in providing basic needs to its own citizen...NEVER except they just recently controlled polluted air a bit in last 3 years when international organizations made noises on how bad air is in India. Nobody is going to hear your voice in India if you are poor.
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i am sorry to disagree with your absolute view of never. i think the govt has tried to provide what it can and has done fairly poor job at it. there is potential to do a lot more. i lived in poor neighbourhoods, lived in middleclass neighbourhoods and honestly i believe the govt is doing stuff, just not doing its best..but in my view is improving. i am extremely positive about it and optimistic. there are many success stories and they are worth catching up on.

but we can bitch, moan and whine about govts, especially some democratic ones all the time. there is plenty of blame to be spread around. i disagree with your assessment bud..that nobody is going to hear your voice if you are poor. i think there are sufficient NGO's that are there...the RTI (the right to information was a decent success...and my expectations were really low to qualify it to be a success) and there is a lot of enpowerment going on.

look at the cost of electricity.....you have coal..and then you want a clean environment?..you wont give me nuclear fuel, my hands are tied there, i cant build big dams because it results in displacement of people...where the heck would you want me to go to get fuel for electricity?? to the global oil mafia??..well bud that costs $$$$$$$$...

have some perspective man.....get connected..there is a lot more stuff happening on the ground now there to feel very hopeful and optimistic about......
 
Mr.Vertigo,
I think they may be right on "better quality of life". There are other ways to get electricity, good water and other things by spending more and it is affordable for some. So they are getting better quality of life with good support of family and friends.
 
rangav said:
Mr.Vertigo,
I think they may be right on "better quality of life". There are other ways to get electricity, good water and other things by spending more and it is affordable for some. So they are getting better quality of life with good support of family and friends.
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And where would the money come from? Unless they're all executives in large multi-national companies, some people will have a pretty low monthly wage - and especially so compared to the United States. They will live in areas where electricity goes off at all times of the day, and where there's no clean water. The air is polluted, the infrastructure is weak and the political situation is a ticking time-bomb, to say the least (in constant war-like situation with Pakistan, etc.).


Bobsmyth:

Depends what the study means by 'better". Better prospects in India than 20 years ago? I would think yes.
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Since he's talking about immigrants leaving the US for a better life in India, then I'm assuming he means as opposed to the US, not India of 20 years ago.
 
Mr Vertigo said:
Since he's talking about immigrants leaving the US for a better life in India, then I'm assuming he means as opposed to the US, not India of 20 years ago.
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Even then, it's the respondents of the study who came up with the notion that career and prospects were better in India:


* Most returnees originally came to the United States for career and educational opportunities. The majority of returnees cited career and quality of life as primary reasons to return to their home countries.

* The most common professional factor (86.8 percent of Chinese and 79.0 percent of Indians) motivating workers to return home was the growing demand for their skills in their home countries.

* Returnees also believed that their home countries provided better career opportunities than they could find in America.

* Most respondents (53.5 percent of Indian and 60.7 percent of Chinese) said opportunities to start their own businesses were better in their home countries.



Even if it was based on the respondents perception, perception says alot.
 
Mr. Vertigo,
That article is talking about returning immigrants, they will have money and steady income to support all these extras. I think these people is definitely getting better quality of life (good education for their kids, friends and family nearby - no daycare, etc). Now they can get very decent DSL with good speed for less than what you pay here. That means a good infrastructure to me.
 
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Bobsmyth said:
Even if it was based on the respondents perception, perception says alot.
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It also depends on who exactly those respondents were. If they're highly-educated people with skills that are needed back home, they may perceive their opportunities being better there due to a shortage of highly-qualified labor in specific areas. However, and we all seem to be forgetting this, not all immigrants are highly-educated or in high demand in their home country. Not everyone can afford to live isolated in gated communities so they don't have to see the world for what is it, like that executive in the first article posted. Fact of the matter is, I don't see how a country with a GDP per capita of $941 can provide anywhere near the same opportunities and quality of life (or even better, as claimed in this article) for people moving back. Maybe a specific skilled subset finding jobs at Cisco and whatnot, but that's a very tiny number.
 
Mr Vertigo said:
And where would the money come from? Unless they're all executives in large multi-national companies, some people will have a pretty low monthly wage - and especially so compared to the United States. They will live in areas where electricity goes off at all times of the day, and where there's no clean water. The air is polluted, the infrastructure is weak and the political situation is a ticking time-bomb, to say the least (in constant war-like situation with Pakistan, etc.).


Bobsmyth:



Since he's talking about immigrants leaving the US for a better life in India, then I'm assuming he means as opposed to the US, not India of 20 years ago.
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See Mr Vertigo;

I know few Indians who have come here for reasons other than economic prosperity. India is a free country, I don't think most people I know have come to the USA for the fear of persecution or for avoiding a social unrest.

At present, All these arguments matters to people of Indian/Chinese Origin only. For most of them the distinctive advantage that made them migrate to the USA is fading out. There had to be a compelling reason for such a drastic decision of leaving everything behind to move overseas. India does not have to reach the stage of advancement that USA is for all those folks to reverse a decision. It was easy in the past. There will be a point, in which the the migration will no longer be attractive to many Indians.
 
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I love the US, but honestly I would not like (and my USC wife thinks so too) to live anywhere else than downtown Manhattan.
I'm fortunate enough to have good education and an excellent resume so I'm open to move abroad to work for a multinational company. My wife also works for a huge advertising company with branches all over the world and could be easily transfered. We'd actually love to move to London or Sydney for a few years.
The US gives you a very steep learning curve at the beginning of your career and it improves your skills dramatically, especially in NYC. Once you become an executive here you could easily find other positions everywhere in the world for the same money or even more.
As far as freedom, I come from Western Europe, which is at the same level.
 
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rangav said:
Mr. Vertigo,
That article is talking about returning immigrants, they will have money and steady income to support all these extras. I think these people is definitely getting better quality of life (good education for their kids, friends and family nearby - no daycare, etc). Now they can get very decent DSL with good speed for less than what you pay here. That means a good infrastructure to me.
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Well, I mean OK, for the people returning that may be so. I'm not denying the fact that India is making progress, but claiming that quality of life is better there is a bit of a stretch I would say.
 
Mr Vertigo said:
It also depends on who exactly those respondents were. If they're highly-educated people with skills that are needed back home, they may perceive their opportunities being better there due to a shortage of highly-qualified labor in specific areas. However, and we all seem to be forgetting this, not all immigrants are highly-educated or in high demand in their home country. Not everyone can afford to live isolated in gated communities so they don't have to see the world for what is it, like that executive in the first article posted. Fact of the matter is, I don't see how a country with a GDP per capita of $941 can provide anywhere near the same opportunities and quality of life (or even better, as claimed in this article) for people moving back. Maybe a specific skilled subset finding jobs at Cisco and whatnot, but that's a very tiny number.
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You are missing a few points here.
According to CIA
1) India — GDP - Per Capita (PPP): $2,600 (2007 Est.)
According to https://www.cia.gov/library/publications/the-world-factbook/print/in.html - More sources »

2) GDP per Capita for India has doubled during the past 5 years. It is a HUGE, I MEAN REALLY BIG THING!

3) The cost of living in India is 1/10 th of the cost of living in the USA (Metropolitan and Rural life standards)

So the numbers do not always represents anything if you are comparing apples to oranges.
 
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ATLANTA_N400 said:
You are missing a few points here.
According to CIA
1) India — GDP - Per Capita (PPP): $2,600 (2007 Est.)
According to https://www.cia.gov/library/publications/the-world-factbook/print/in.html - More sources »
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IMF is more reliable than CIA, and PPP means Purchasing Power Parity, which is a different beast from nominal GDP, which is $941. PPP includes all the money sent home from the US and other places, and is generally different from actual GDP.

3) The cost of living in India is 1/10 th of the cost of living in the USA (Metropolitan and Rural life standards)
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With an average income of almost 50 times less than that of the US, I would be surprised if it wasn't.

So the numbers do not always represents anything if you are comparing apples to oranges.
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Sure, sure. The numbers do tell us something: a country of more than one billion people has a nominal GDP of a little over $1 trillion, which leaves very little money for capital investment (roads, schools, trains, health care, clean water, energy, etc.), because the size of the country is roughly comparable to that of the US.


P.S. I am in no way trying to sway anyone from moving to India or considering India to be the better choice for life. I am simply kind of surprised at some of the claims made in these two articles, and am genuinely amused that people believe them.
 
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Mr Vertigo said:
It also depends on who exactly those respondents were. If they're highly-educated people with skills that are needed back home, they may perceive their opportunities being better there due to a shortage of highly-qualified labor in specific areas. However, and we all seem to be forgetting this, not all immigrants are highly-educated or in high demand in their home country. Not everyone can afford to live isolated in gated communities so they don't have to see the world for what is it, like that executive in the first article posted. Fact of the matter is, I don't see how a country with a GDP per capita of $941 can provide anywhere near the same opportunities and quality of life (or even better, as claimed in this article) for people moving back. Maybe a specific skilled subset finding jobs at Cisco and whatnot, but that's a very tiny number.
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Since the study is about skilled labor leaving the US, I think it's fair to assume the respondents are mostly (if not all) skilled workers. With companies outsourcing it makes it much easier for skilled workers to move around the world freely. They essentially have their pick of were to work, and with India giving them that opportunity it makes it an attractable prospect.
 
Mr Vertigo said:
IMF is more reliable than CIA, and PPP means Purchasing Power Parity, which is a different beast from nominal GDP, which is $941. PPP includes all the money sent home from the US and other places, and is generally different from actual GDP.



With an average income of almost 50 times less than that of the US, I would be surprised if it wasn't.



Sure, sure. The numbers do tell us something: a country of more than one billion people has a nominal GDP of a little over $1 trillion, which leaves very little money for capital investment (roads, schools, trains, health care, clean water, energy, etc.), because the size of the country is roughly comparable to that of the US.


P.S. I am in no way trying to sway anyone from moving to India or considering India to be the better choice for life. I am simply kind of surprised at some of the claims made in these two articles, and am genuinely amused that people believe them.
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I don't know where you get the numbers.

India is 1/10 th of the Size of USA - Roughly the size of Texas and Okhlahoma combined together.

one third of the uSA economy is a single state California.

India is 4 times more populus than the USA

USA is a 13 T economy. It is number ONE so far. correct ?. But we are growing south. minus 3% GDP average growth in the last several quarters and still going. So what does it tell you for the GDP per Capita and Aging Baby Boomers!.

Now India has been having a steady GDP growth for the past 10 years. Even in this turbulent world economy, the last quarter recorded 7.3% real growth.

You are right inflation is inversily proportional to Cash in the Society!. That is pure economics. Why would I need $1.90 to buy a pund of tomatoes when I can get it for a nickel ?.
 
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