shoplifting questions

ringtone said:
Hi, guys!
have a question regarding N-400 application.
this is not for me, but for a close relative.
In the section for good moral character there are questions that I need help with. But before this, let me explain the situation.
My relative have 2 incidents of shoplifting. First of all, I'd like to tell you that she was wrongfully accused, and I don't think explanations would

help right now. But this is for you to understand.
The second case was in QFC store. She was detained by store security, police was not called, they called the police and filed the report. Then, she paid

fine, and received the notice in the mail to appear in court. She hired an attorney, and she had her case settled, even before she had to chance to

plead guilty or not guilty. I believe she had pretrial diversion program, she was offered to pay $75 in fine, commit no new violations, perform 24 hour

community service and not to have a contact with the store. She succesfully completed it, and the case was dismissed by the city with prejudice.
So, does she need to mention first occurance?
Also, for the second case what information need to be included along with the application?
So, for question 15 i check yes, and questions 16, 17, 18, 19, 20 and 21 I check no? questions 19 and 20 I am not sure though.
It was 2 years ago, and I don't know if she needs to wait 3 more years, or she can send application right now.
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My question is, where is the shoplifter and why is she not posting her question herself?
 
i would not mention it, I not a lawyer but I did sleep at a holiday inn before. If she mentions any of it her applications will take years.....
 
I am no expert, but it would look like the first one doesn't need to be mentioned as it was all handled by store security and there was no arrest/polic report/court. About the second it would look like she needs to get court dispositions and whatever documentation about the case. There is always the risk that she might get denied for this and will have to wait until the five years. However, I don't know how big is the risk. It might help to collect documents from distinguished members of her community (any priest she might know, things like that) that can write some letters for her showing her good moral character. This might help in case the IO is inclined to deny the application.

I am not sure about the questions. It would look like 19 and 20 apply. I think it might be better to answer yes for the ones you are in doubt and perhaps explain in a different sheet of paper or explain during the interview. I believe with USCIS is better to say yes to one of these questions and then explain yourself than to say no and then be challenged as if you were trying to hide something. Anyway, I think the most important thing is to collect the documents. If money is not an issue you might consider talking to a lawyer or do more research about shoplifting and naturalization in this forum or the internet. Perhaps someone has some experience on this and might contribute, but take into account that the number of active members is just a fraction of all the people who have ever visited and contributed to this board.
 
People have been deported for shoplifting, and USCIS will likely see the paying of the fines as guilt. Consult a lawyer experienced in these matters before filing the application.
 
Theft is frequently a deportable offense, and by taking diversion program, she probably admitted guilt under immigration law. She MUST seek the advice of an immigration lawyer before doing anything which might alert USCIS to her conviction.

http://www.murthy.com/news/UDshoplg.html
http://www.nycbar.org/pdf/report/Immigration.pdf

By the way, I don't understand your first scenario. Since when has store security had the power to levy a fine against an individual? If the police/courts weren't involved, why was a fine paid?
 
boatbod said:
Since when has store security had the power to levy a fine against an individual? If the police/courts weren't involved, why was a fine paid?
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A friend of mine had this happen to him. He was caught by a security camera switching price stickers on a CD, so the security detained him, took down his info, then let him go without calling the police. A couple of weeks later, he got a $75 fine in the mail, directly from the store. I question the legality of this, but apparently it happens.
 
Huracan said:
I am no expert, but it would look like the first one doesn't need to be mentioned as it was all handled by store security and there was no arrest/polic report/court. About the second it would look like she needs to get court dispositions and whatever documentation about the case. There is always the risk that she might get denied for this and will have to wait until the five years. However, I don't know how big is the risk. It might help to collect documents from distinguished members of her community (any priest she might know, things like that) that can write some letters for her showing her good moral character. This might help in case the IO is inclined to deny the application.
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Bad advice. The first occurrence would fall under the "Have you ever committed a crime for which you were NOT arrested?" question.

If she marks NO for that question and USICS finds out about it, she'll most likely get deported for both the shoplifting incident itself, AND for lying on the application.
 
GhantaBro said:
a 60 year old Lady did all this.... hmmm.
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as i said, she didn't do anything wrong, if you knew this person, you'd say the same thing. it's hard when you old, diabetic, with limited english to be in the store security office, and being treated and threatened like a criminal.
first case in goodwill store, she was stopped because she spent 2 hours in the store. how stupid is that? then they tried to find anything wrong, and guess what? on the receit it showed that she paid for everything! they let he go, didn't call the police (because there was no cause), and later she receives the letter that she needs to pay $200 fine. She was no in position to argue, as she was still scared, so she paid the fine, and the store closed this matter.
Second case was bizzare too. she was between 2 jobs, she had like 20-30 minutes to shop, she got to meat section, and she picked up meat there. you know how often the price sticker is always crooked, and when you get to the cashier to pay, laser reader cannot read the price, and you end up waiting for the price check? this is what she tried to avoid. So she removed the sticker from the package, then stick it back straighter, so it could be readable at the cashier, and when she paid and was leaving the store, she got stopped by store security. Where is the crime? I see more store negligence putting price lables, as it happenned numerous times. I understand that everybody has a fast trigger to judge people because they have records. but right now, i am looking more for help, rather than understanding.
 
ringtone said:
as i said, she didn't do anything wrong, if you knew this person, you'd say the same thing. it's hard when you old, diabetic, with limited english to be in the store security office, and being treated and threatened like a criminal.
first case in goodwill store, she was stopped because she spent 2 hours in the store. how stupid is that? then they tried to find anything wrong, and guess what? on the receit it showed that she paid for everything! they let he go, didn't call the police (because there was no cause), and later she receives the letter that she needs to pay $200 fine. She was no in position to argue, as she was still scared, so she paid the fine, and the store closed this matter.
Second case was bizzare too. she was between 2 jobs, she had like 20-30 minutes to shop, she got to meat section, and she picked up meat there. you know how often the price sticker is always crooked, and when you get to the cashier to pay, laser reader cannot read the price, and you end up waiting for the price check? this is what she tried to avoid. So she removed the sticker from the package, then stick it back straighter, so it could be readable at the cashier, and when she paid and was leaving the store, she got stopped by store security. Where is the crime? I see more store negligence putting price lables, as it happenned numerous times. I understand that everybody has a fast trigger to judge people because they have records. but right now, i am looking more for help, rather than understanding.
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Man, use some creativity when making up stories.
You think the security guy just comes and accuses people and doesn't verify anything? For god's sake, the cops were called in the 2nd case, and you think they have no way of verifying with the store?
 
VisaNutz said:
Man, use some creativity when making up stories.
You think the security guy just comes and accuses people and doesn't verify anything? For god's sake, the cops were called in the 2nd case, and you think they have no way of verifying with the store?
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there is nothing made up. to be honest, i hate when people think like you. i hate it when people don't believe you. they , store security, are legally right when she pulled the sticker off, but she only corrected it, and put it back on the same package. do you call it crime? store security video tape only when you in the store shopping, but they never video tape how they treat you in the store security office, throwing frozen meat at you, hitting your ankles, calling you racial names. it just makes me angry that someone would call me a liar. I do not make up stories. and thanks for the help!
 
ringtone said:
there is nothing made up. to be honest, i hate when people think like you. i hate it when people don't believe you. they , store security, are legally right when she pulled the sticker off, but she only corrected it, and put it back on the same package. do you call it crime? store security video tape only when you in the store shopping, but they never video tape how they treat you in the store security office, throwing frozen meat at you, hitting your ankles, calling you racial names. it just makes me angry that someone would call me a liar. I do not make up stories. and thanks for the help!
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Is this what they did??? You should DEFINITELY hire a lawyer, possibly the ACLU or some place like that. If this is all true, I think your friend may have a case against the shops, if the incidents didn't take place too long ago. As for the N-400 questions, I don't know...
 
cafeconleche said:
Is this what they did??? You should DEFINITELY hire a lawyer, possibly the ACLU or some place like that. If this is all true, I think your friend may have a case against the shops, if the incidents didn't take place too long ago. As for the N-400 questions, I don't know...
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yeah she should forget about filing N-400 and file lawsuit against the store and that security officer... she can make millions out of this and she doesn't have to worry about citizenship.
 
GhantaBro.. so true...so true... I would sue.... racial slurrs and such are completely unacceptable.

I would actually not let them get away with such a hateful crime. My focus now would be on obtaining a lawyer. There are even Lawyers that don't get paid until you get paid... Mos def look that up. and after fixing that problem everything else should come together for N400 purposes.
 
Vorpal said:
A friend of mine had this happen to him. He was caught by a security camera switching price stickers on a CD, so the security detained him, took down his info, then let him go without calling the police. A couple of weeks later, he got a $75 fine in the mail, directly from the store. I question the legality of this, but apparently it happens.
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Wow. :eek: Wouldn't that normally be called extortion?
"Give me money or else we'll report you to the cops..."
 
I dont know

I dont know but I have to agree with VisaNutz. If the crime was caught on tape, then the tape player has a rewind button. If they saw her putting a sticker back on the package then they also saw her taking the "same " sticker off OR otherwise.. They would not blame her unless there is a solid proof.
All and every store employees are warned on a regular basis never to even accuse someone if they dont have a soild proof on camera, to avoid getting sued.
Also enough measures are taken before blaming someone, like double checking and verifying the price sticker.

I am sorry for being unreasonable, but thats what I think. Please pardon my ignorance if I am wrong.
 
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