Retrogression: Doing the Math

neha_wal said:
Dear sfmars,
As you would read infostartved's response, he/she just made a correct and clear statement. What I had asked was 'if there are no technical workers with PD before Jan'98, the what will happen. And he has rightly responded saying 'Only those schedule A workers who have their PD befor 98 Jan will use the EB3 number rest of them will use the numbers from 50K quota' I think it's pretty simple. As far as 'JNPR' response is concerned I don't understand what he/she wrote, what is NAME CHECK ?
There are miles of differences for the people who haven’t filed 485 from the people who have already filed.
Except for the benefits that one can enjoy after 485 is filed, the 485 form will go through some waiting period, finger print, FBI Name Check, or security clearance, RFE, etc, while the people who haven’t filed 485 can do nothing.
Today, EB3 people with March/2001 are not eligible to file 485 yet, but many people with later PD are ready to get 485 approved once visa quota is available. When I said ready, I mean everything is ready but visa number.
The day when cut-off date moves beyond March/2001, the guy who hasn’t file 485 will send the package to USCIS by overnight that day, at the same time, the other guys who has 485 pending will get 485 approval email. For the first guy, his/her 485 will wait for up to 3 years to get approved. You can check 485 forum regarding name check.

My point is, during the 1-3 years that I am waiting for my 485 touched/adjudicated/approved, thousands of Schedule A and their families with much later PD than mine will use regular quota.
After 1-3 years, when my day finally comes, the cut-off date could be further retrogressed.
 
Jnpr

JNPR, why are you referring to EB3 PD 2001/March is it some other date than the current cut off date of Jan'98 or you are referring to your Priority date
 
Priority Date Math - A Realistics Scenario and Calculator

Hello All,
Here is some information from my point of view. It is based on my understanding of the immigration laws and as I am not a lawyer, I do not take any legal responsibility for this.

Personally I have greencard (went through the pain in 2000-2001) and so not affected by this but my cousins are affected and that caused me to look into this.

Some Facts (or reasonable assumptions)

One key assumption is all indians who came before 2000, got their greencard by 2001. I know this is agreesive assumption but just made to come to reasonable forecast. If you think this is too agreesive, just guess a number of indians who came before 2000 and did not get greencard before end of 2001 and add to following calculation. It will only make things worse.

Another key assumption counting of only H-1Bs for greencard (again in last two years there are other H-1Bs for US graduates, schedules A and L1s who all applying for employment based greencards). Again including them will only make things worse.


Immigration quota for employment per year: 140,000 for all countries, about 9800 for one country before using the unused quota. This includes dependents.

H1 B issuesd from 2000 to 2002: about 500,000 (quota was 195,000 peryear)
H1 B issued from 2003 to 2005: about 200,000 (quota was 65,000 per year)

Of this Indians represent at least 1/3 of the H1Bs issued (I recollect a stat on INS website which actually was about 40%) Therefore total Indians who got H1B between 2000 and 2005 are about 700,000/3 = 230,000

Of this about 75% apply for greencard and have 2.5 person per family on average. Then total greencard visa needed = 230,000*.75*2.5 = 430,000 approx.

Now between 2001 to 2005, roughly 25 to 30% of the greencards were issued to Indians (based on data in earlier post which in turn was based on some INS source) - With this assumption of 30%,

Between 2001 to 2005 total employment quota: 140,000 * 4 = 560,000
However not all of this was used as 50,000 was reserved for schedule A
So the max that would be used was = 500,000 approx.
Of this 500,000 at 30%, Indians would have used 150,000 visa

This leaves 430,000 - 150,000 = 280,000 indians waiting for greencard who came between 2000 and 2005.

Now total quota of employment greencard is 140,000 and at rate of 30% for India (after allowing of use of unused quota by other countries), it is roughly 40,000 per year.

So, just to clear backlog it would take about 7 years (280,000/40,000).

Personally I think this estimate is agreesive, as 20,000 additional H-1 per year for US graduates, Thousands of L-1 and schedule A applicants are not accounted in this who all use the same 140,000 employment greencards. My personal estimate is that it would be close to 10 year for a person with EB3 priority date in June 2005 to get greencard with current laws.

Again This is just my two cents and you can change the assupmtions figures above and repeat the calculation with your ideas per your need.

Things can change in a hurry if US desperately needs IT workers again (like in 2000 US adjusted the laws due to year 2000 demand), however in current situation with so much fear of outsourcing in tech sectors, I would not be optimistic about changes in laws that will increase the 140,000 quota. Ultimately it is supply/demand situation (disguised under a scheme of immigration laws) that make lobbyists (influencial one with money - not like you and me who just send an email or letter to senator), industry and politicians to act on it.
 
neha_wal said:
JNPR, why are you referring to EB3 PD 2001/March is it some other date than the current cut off date of Jan'98 or you are referring to your Priority date
I referred to October visa bulletin cut-off date for non-india/china countries. I just gave an example to explain better. Mine is jan/03.
 
my 2cents

Guess "infostarved" you are not 100% right in your interpretation of. As you read "The nurses are going to eat into the regular EB3 quota *only* if their priority date is before the regular EB3 cutoff date. Their boon comes from the extra 50K numbers that will be made available to them from unused EB numbers from 2001 thru 2004".
Well these numbers WERE suppose to be divided among EB1, EB2 and EB3.To prove this point this above law of 50K quota came in May 2005 and as a result in July EB3 bacame unavailable worldwide. Clear enough because all the unused quota was given to the Schedule A workers.

Also "neha wal" from "F. VISA AVAILABILITY BASED ON THE “RECAPTURE” OF EMPLOYMENT-BASED NUMBERS"
"Note that any Schedule A applicant will first be eligible for a visa number under the traditional Third preference cut-off date. “EX” visa numbers may be allocated to all Third preference Schedule A applicants from all countries, including China, India, and Philippines, only if their priority date is beyond the established Third preference cut-off date or if the Third preference category is “Unavailable”. The “EX” category is CURRENT, and will remain Current for the foreseeable future."
So this means that first Schedule A dig in the regular quota of EB3 and then when that is done you start eating 50k quota.And that is what exactly happened in July 05 for EB3 workers. That is the quota for 2005
was consumed by EB31+EB32+EB3A and then that unused quota should have kicked in for all EB3's but it was given to Schedule A workers. Hence "UNAVAILABLE".

My conclusion:
Looks like to avoid/stop Schdule A workers from eating the regular EB3 quota and make the situation more grave in 2006 the USIS (intelligently) has now moved the dates back to stone age so that hardly any Schedule A worker
would have filed or still waiting for GC. So that all the EB3 fresh quota of 2006 will be untouched by the Schdule A worker and hence helping in moving the PD dates for EB3 category.
 
Getting the facts straight

All,

Please read the following public laws, acts and USCIS publications if you want to be able to make quantitative estimates. They are cryptically (but not ambiguously) written. I have read and understood or am in the process of reading all of them...

(Also, guys, this thread is for doing the math. So only math please. A nurse might get fingerprinted before you, might give herself the shots for the I-693 medical for all you know, and might delay your 485 processing time... and I am not saying that's inconsequential ... but, please, there are other threads for discussing those kinds of issues).

Immigration and Nationality (United States Code Title 8, Chapter 12, Subchapter II, Part I (http://www4.law.cornell.edu/uscode/html/uscode08/usc_sup_01_8_10_12_20_II_30_I.html)
Please read sections 1151, 1152, 1153

Then go read..
Annual Flow Report for 2004 Appendix 1 (Preference immigration limits) - http://uscis.gov/graphics/shared/statistics/publications/FlowReportLegalPermResidents2004.pdf
It will help you understand the thing better. Among other things it will help you see how family based immigration affects EB immigration.

Now, read the following....

AC21 Sec 106(d) (http://www.colosseumbuilders.com/Guild/h1b/library/laws/PL2000.pdf)

REAL ID Act 2005 Division B, Title V Sec 502 - (public law 109-13) - how it amends AC21 Sec 106(d) to provide 50k visas for nurses. You'll get it if you search on thomas.loc.gov but I havent pasted the link because the link has an expiry.
 
sarasri said:
Go to http://www.trackins.com/labor/index.php and sort based on SESA Receipt (ascending order). You would see lots of cases from 2000/2001 in both EB3 and EB2.....

sarasri,

I do not know if one should trust this tracker.

My strong impression is that just only quite a few have PD 2000/2001 the cases which were filed as Traditional but most of the people after 1999 filed RIR. The Ratio Traditional/RIR is 1/10
 
infostarved said:
All,

Please read the following public laws, acts and USCIS publications if you want to be able to make quantitative estimates. They are cryptically (but not ambiguously) written. I have read and understood or am in the process of reading all of them...

(Also, guys, this thread is for doing the math. So only math please. A nurse might get fingerprinted before you, might give herself the shots for the I-693 medical for all you know, and might delay your 485 processing time... and I am not saying that's inconsequential ... but, please, there are other threads for discussing those kinds of issues).

Immigration and Nationality (United States Code Title 8, Chapter 12, Subchapter II, Part I (http://www4.law.cornell.edu/uscode/html/uscode08/usc_sup_01_8_10_12_20_II_30_I.html)
Please read sections 1151, 1152, 1153

Then go read..
Annual Flow Report for 2004 Appendix 1 (Preference immigration limits) - http://uscis.gov/graphics/shared/statistics/publications/FlowReportLegalPermResidents2004.pdf
It will help you understand the thing better. Among other things it will help you see how family based immigration affects EB immigration.

Now, read the following....

AC21 Sec 106(d) (http://www.colosseumbuilders.com/Guild/h1b/library/laws/PL2000.pdf)

REAL ID Act 2005 Division B, Title V Sec 502 - (public law 109-13) - how it amends AC21 Sec 106(d) to provide 50k visas for nurses. You'll get it if you search on thomas.loc.gov but I havent pasted the link because the link has an expiry.

infostarved,

What is your vision of EB3 retrogression for all world from your point of view ?
You want to say that visa department slept all the time then woke up at September 13 and realized that it is necessary to retrogress all world 5 years back.

Mine vision is pretty simple and clear - NURSES.

The fact is that all world of EB3 is retrogressed and there is privileged sub-category in EB3 which is not retrogressed (PD is current for all world of nurses). Very soon 50,000 quota for nurses will be eaten and new visas will be dedicated by congress for them from EB2 and EB3 category (as unused bewcause nobody from EB3 can beat 2000/2001 dates).

There is no needs to read their official publications they change them on fly based on the particular political interests of different groups.

Wake up and look at the reality, all EB3 people are doomed.
 
SeemAsp,

Number of H1B's is calculated from 2000-2005 (6 years - total of 500000)
But Employment Greencard quota is calculated only for 4 years (140000 * 4) :confused: :confused:

This should actually be 140000 * 6 = 840000 i.e 8,00,000 roughly after SchA quota :)

This means there are around 1,80,000 people waiting in I-485 stage.
(1,80,000 / 40,000 = 4.5 years :eek: )

Am I wrong anywhere ?????


seemasp said:
Hello All,
Here is some information from my point of view. It is based on my understanding of the immigration laws and as I am not a lawyer, I do not take any legal responsibility for this.

Personally I have greencard (went through the pain in 2000-2001) and so not affected by this but my cousins are affected and that caused me to look into this.

Some Facts (or reasonable assumptions)

One key assumption is all indians who came before 2000, got their greencard by 2001. I know this is agreesive assumption but just made to come to reasonable forecast. If you think this is too agreesive, just guess a number of indians who came before 2000 and did not get greencard before end of 2001 and add to following calculation. It will only make things worse.

Another key assumption counting of only H-1Bs for greencard (again in last two years there are other H-1Bs for US graduates, schedules A and L1s who all applying for employment based greencards). Again including them will only make things worse.


Immigration quota for employment per year: 140,000 for all countries, about 9800 for one country before using the unused quota. This includes dependents.

H1 B issuesd from 2000 to 2002: about 500,000 (quota was 195,000 peryear)
H1 B issued from 2003 to 2005: about 200,000 (quota was 65,000 per year)

Of this Indians represent at least 1/3 of the H1Bs issued (I recollect a stat on INS website which actually was about 40%) Therefore total Indians who got H1B between 2000 and 2005 are about 700,000/3 = 230,000

Of this about 75% apply for greencard and have 2.5 person per family on average. Then total greencard visa needed = 230,000*.75*2.5 = 430,000 approx.

Now between 2001 to 2005, roughly 25 to 30% of the greencards were issued to Indians (based on data in earlier post which in turn was based on some INS source) - With this assumption of 30%,

Between 2001 to 2005 total employment quota: 140,000 * 4 = 560,000
However not all of this was used as 50,000 was reserved for schedule A
So the max that would be used was = 500,000 approx.
Of this 500,000 at 30%, Indians would have used 150,000 visa

This leaves 430,000 - 150,000 = 280,000 indians waiting for greencard who came between 2000 and 2005.

Now total quota of employment greencard is 140,000 and at rate of 30% for India (after allowing of use of unused quota by other countries), it is roughly 40,000 per year.

So, just to clear backlog it would take about 7 years (280,000/40,000).

Personally I think this estimate is agreesive, as 20,000 additional H-1 per year for US graduates, Thousands of L-1 and schedule A applicants are not accounted in this who all use the same 140,000 employment greencards. My personal estimate is that it would be close to 10 year for a person with EB3 priority date in June 2005 to get greencard with current laws.

Again This is just my two cents and you can change the assupmtions figures above and repeat the calculation with your ideas per your need.

Things can change in a hurry if US desperately needs IT workers again (like in 2000 US adjusted the laws due to year 2000 demand), however in current situation with so much fear of outsourcing in tech sectors, I would not be optimistic about changes in laws that will increase the 140,000 quota. Ultimately it is supply/demand situation (disguised under a scheme of immigration laws) that make lobbyists (influencial one with money - not like you and me who just send an email or letter to senator), industry and politicians to act on it.
 
Lost all the hope

Hi, to all of you,

My country never used all visa in EB-1, EB-2, EB-3 quota. So why the hell March 01 came on us over night. Give us back all the visa's we did not used
:mad: :mad: :mad: :mad:



rajguy20022002 said:
SeemAsp,

Number of H1B's is calculated from 2000-2005 (6 years - total of 500000)
But Employment Greencard quota is calculated only for 4 years (140000 * 4) :confused: :confused:

This should actually be 140000 * 6 = 840000 i.e 8,00,000 roughly after SchA quota :)

This means there are around 1,80,000 people waiting in I-485 stage.
(1,80,000 / 40,000 = 4.5 years :eek: )

Am I wrong anywhere ?????
 
Last edited by a moderator:
Mexican does not mean illegal

nato said:
to do the jobs which americans don't do..
legal professional, skilled immigrants take up american jobs some way in their mindset

Hey, Please don't related illegal to Mexicans. I am a Mexican person. I am not illegal. I am a professional and most of my mexican friends are professionals & not illegal aliens. I also know many illegal aliens from different countries. It is harder for them to get a job now because most companies, even restaurants, are checking the status of the alien now. Take it easy... ;)
 
Mexican does not mean illegal

nato said:
to do the jobs which americans don't do..
legal professional, skilled immigrants take up american jobs some way in their mindset

Hey, Please don't relate illegal to Mexicans. I am a Mexican person. I am not illegal. I am a professional and most of my mexican friends are professionals & not illegal aliens. I also know many illegal aliens from different countries. It is harder for them to get a job now because most companies, even restaurants, are checking the status of the alien now. Take it easy... ;)
 
rajguy20022002 said:
SeemAsp,

Number of H1B's is calculated from 2000-2005 (6 years - total of 500000)
But Employment Greencard quota is calculated only for 4 years (140000 * 4) :confused: :confused:

This should actually be 140000 * 6 = 840000 i.e 8,00,000 roughly after SchA quota :)

This means there are around 1,80,000 people waiting in I-485 stage.
(1,80,000 / 40,000 = 4.5 years :eek: )

Am I wrong anywhere ?????


First the number of H1B for 2000-2005 is about 700,000 rather than 500,000. Pl. check the original post.
The reason behind using only 2002-2005 years is that there usually a delay of 1-2 years once the person comes in USA and applies/gets for greencard. I assumed that all persons who came before 2000 got their greencard by 2001 and hence not counting 2000 and 2001 figures of greencard because all persons who came in 1995 to 2000 period and were waiting for the priority dates to become current in 1999 used that quota at that time. Persons who came in 2000 or 2001 would have priority dates of 2001 or 2002 at the earliest (other than few exceptions) as most of us chages one job before starting greencard process. There fore all of us who came between 2000 - 2005 will try to use greencard quota of 2002 onwards....Hope this explains....
 
Retrogression – what is my cut-off date.

I have a substituted LC. The initial LC was submitted for an Indian born citizen with PD Nov 2001. LC was substituted before approval and now is approved for European born person. Regarding visa retrogression is my cut-off date considered part of the India category or Europe? It is a difference of 3 years: 1998 or 2001?
Thank you
 
seemasp said:
First the number of H1B for 2000-2005 is about 700,000 rather than 500,000. Pl. check the original post.
The reason behind using only 2002-2005 years is that there usually a delay of 1-2 years once the person comes in USA and applies/gets for greencard. I assumed that all persons who came before 2000 got their greencard by 2001 and hence not counting 2000 and 2001 figures of greencard because all persons who came in 1995 to 2000 period and were waiting for the priority dates to become current in 1999 used that quota at that time.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
This is ignorant assumptions. Those days LC approval took any where between 2 to 4 years in CA, NY DOL/EDD. Assumption is absolutely wrong. BEC has lot of cases 2000, 2001-----------------------------------------------------------------------
Persons who came in 2000 or 2001 would have priority dates of 2001 or 2002 at the earliest (other than few exceptions) as most of us chages one job before starting greencard process. There fore all of us who came between 2000 - 2005 will try to use greencard quota of 2002 onwards....Hope this explains....
 
Good thinkin brother

Hello Brother,
You sounds like a very optimistic person, So do you think they took the dates way back in the stone age so that the Schedule A workers finish the 50000K and when they are done or about to finsh up that, they'll make the PD move so the other workers could use the numbers and there will not be too much rush from the Schedule A workers ? If what you think is correct then it is certainly a great thinking.

Hello Brother wrote:------
My conclusion:
Looks like to avoid/stop Schdule A workers from eating the regular EB3 quota and make the situation more grave in 2006 the USIS (intelligently) has now moved the dates back to stone age so that hardly any Schedule A worker
would have filed or still waiting for GC. So that all the EB3 fresh quota of 2006 will be untouched by the Schdule A worker and hence helping in moving the PD dates for EB3 category.
 
alwayshope said:
I have a substituted LC. The initial LC was submitted for an Indian born citizen with PD Nov 2001. LC was substituted before approval and now is approved for European born person. Regarding visa retrogression is my cut-off date considered part of the India category or Europe? It is a difference of 3 years: 1998 or 2001?
Thank you

Your Priority date is 03/26/2004. You can not inherit substituted PD of someone else.

Your cut off date is 01-Mar-2001. You will not get GC before your PD is current.
 
Build India

Jamsetaji got Insulted by White people and he built World Class Taj Hotels

"Interestingly, the first hotel of the chain, the Taj Mahal, Mumbai, was in reaction to an insult to the country. Founder Jamsteji Tata took two foreigners to lunch to a hotel. While his guests were welcomed in, the guards denied him entry because he was Indian. He then resolved to set up the world's finest hotel. When it first opened its doors, the Taj had its own post office, laundry and electroplating plant. It was the first place in the city to have electricity."


When you are so educated having Global Experience why don't you go back Home and help to build your country to show US Government what we can do!!! Agin Build India as Supreme Power in the world

Regards
p3i2a1
 
Wrong thread, guy. You need another thread for this post... better still.. another portal.

p3i2a1 said:
Jamsetaji got Insulted by White people and he built World Class Taj Hotels

"Interestingly, the first hotel of the chain, the Taj Mahal, Mumbai, was in reaction to an insult to the country. Founder Jamsteji Tata took two foreigners to lunch to a hotel. While his guests were welcomed in, the guards denied him entry because he was Indian. He then resolved to set up the world's finest hotel. When it first opened its doors, the Taj had its own post office, laundry and electroplating plant. It was the first place in the city to have electricity."


When you are so educated having Global Experience why don't you go back Home and help to build your country to show US Government what we can do!!! Agin Build India as Supreme Power in the world

Regards
p3i2a1
 
alwayshope said:
I have a substituted LC. The initial LC was submitted for an Indian born citizen with PD Nov 2001. LC was substituted before approval and now is approved for European born person. Regarding visa retrogression is my cut-off date considered part of the India category or Europe? It is a difference of 3 years: 1998 or 2001?
Thank you
as far as i know, your PD is Nov/01, retro country is your own country of birth.
 
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