Retrogression: Doing the Math

optimistguy said:
Hello,

I dont follow what you are saying here... could you please elaborate? For example what exactly do you mean by:
"Before Schedule A goes to 50K extra quota, Schedule A will use up a large percent of regular EB3 at the same time as EB3 1997 inidan-2001 other country people.
In one word, when Schedule A bill passed, it looks a relief for EB3. However, it's disastrous bill for regular EB3 now."

---Are you talking about the new immigration bill (McCain Kennedy bill) here? I heard that it increases the visa quota to 290000, so it is beneficial to us. Are you saying otherwise? And could you also explain what you mean by "Schedule A will use up a large percent of regular EB3"

Thank you - I am still so confused about this whole thing, howmuchever I try to understand. Why do they have to make such a complicated system.
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Background:
Earlier this year, the Congress passed a legislation giving 50,000 special numbers to nurses and physical therapists which they can recapture from the unused employment visa numbers between 2001 and 2004. The problem is that the State Department uses regular visa EB-3 quota numbers before they deplete the recapture numbers for the nurses and physical therapists for whom the visa numbers were available.

Schedule A means "Nurses and Physical Therapists", the visa number bulletin shows "Current" for Schedule A from June/2005 to October/2005.

Schedule A belongs to EB3 category.
 
jnpr said:
Schedule A is "Current" due to 50K extra quota;

USCIS will adjudicate and approve all Schedule A, including the people filed today. Technically, if there is no name check, Schedule A could get 485 approved in weeks/months;

Before Schedule A goes to 50K extra quota, Schedule A will use up a large percent of regular EB3 at the same time as EB3 1997 inidan-2001 other country people.

In one word, when Schedule A bill passed, it looks a relief for EB3. However, it's disastrous bill for regular EB3 now.

If I were USCIS director, I would have asked my employee to hold all Schedule A case and adjudicate/approve regular EB3 first, and start from July/2006, when regular EB3 quota is used up, to adjudicate/approve Schedule A, from 50K pool.
But I am not a USCIS director of any service center.

My conclusion: as long as schedule A is current, it's nonsense to track 97/98 PD guys. However few 97/98 guys left, Schedule A will consume a significant quantity of regular EB3 quota.
Please comment.
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This is very very disturbing.
This means EB3 will never get current.
There wont be any progress in dates as well.
Please explain the mechanism. I am curious.
Where did you get this information?
Please provide links.
We are the people here, not attorneys.
 
neocor said:
I am not really getting how you are coming up with that conclusion, but also believe that same.
I believe as long as EB3 tech workers share the same cateogry with Schedule A workers, we are not going get a single Visa until the demand in Schedule A workers goes down.
They already have extra 50K visa numbers and above that get the first shot at any regular numbers from the general EB3 pool.

Guys the sooner this is understood, the sooner you will realize that the dates are not going to move an inch forward for years to come.
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That is true. Only when you start to see unemployed nerses EB3 category starts moving for tech people.

There are 2 issues which caused retrogressions:

1. Eb1,Eb2,Eb3 India/China - because too many of them
2. Eb3 Other world - because of nurses
 
This (was) is a disaster!

So basically, the Schedule A workers bill, even though it appeared to increase the number of EB-3 visas by 50K, was a disaster for all other EB3 applicants. So now the Schedule workers are eating away all other immigrant visa numbers ... and probably are not even using up their extra 50K, because they get the first shot at the common visa number pool. So, the US Govt just decided to subsitute all its EB3 immigrants for Schedule A Nurses for the next couple of years or who knows how much longer? Was that all unintentional ... this sounds so incredbily stupid (or mischievious). As the dates stand now, there will no more immigrants from China or India (not even EB1s or 2s) for atleast 3 more years!

Needless to say, this is extremely unfair. First off, the Schedule A workers should use up their 50K first and then get from the common pool (the 50K stock was created for them for God's sake!). And now who started labor in 2003 maybe gets the GC in 2005 ... but people who applied even before will remain stuck for 3 more years. Suddenly maybe in a few years time, everything will be "current" again and those who sufferred immensely in between will be forgotten. Same thing happenned with the new security check delays after 9/11 ... those people lost valuable 1-2 years for nothing! For sure, Labor substitution should be banned and the whole Retrogression thing should be (and should have been) done periodically with checks in place. This is the most incredible measure ... it's available now, now it's not, available now, now it's 98!!!

:confused:
 
Somebody(whoever decides these PD) in DOS has dead brain. The purpose of allocating 50K visas to Schedule A is becuase they were not getting enough (because "Other" workers were limited to 10K visas) visas. In that case they should just be using 50K visas instead of started using skilled/professional EB3 visas.
I still don't understand if Schedule A's were limited to 10K from the overall EB3 quota how come other EB3 people don't have much left. As per my theory EB3 skilled people(other than Schedule A and "Other" workers) will have a minimum of 30K visas for this year(Oct 05 to Sep 06) and schedule A will have access to 10K + 50K.
 
velailla said:
Somebody(whoever decides these PD) in DOS has dead brain. The purpose of allocating 50K visas to Schedule A is becuase they were not getting enough (because "Other" workers were limited to 10K visas) visas. In that case they should just be using 50K visas instead of started using skilled/professional EB3 visas.
I still don't understand if Schedule A's were limited to 10K from the overall EB3 quota how come other EB3 people don't have much left. As per my theory EB3 skilled people(other than Schedule A and "Other" workers) will have a minimum of 30K visas for this year(Oct 05 to Sep 06) and schedule A will have access to 10K + 50K.
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Nurses take EB3 visas from the regular quota they are not related to other workers. The majority of coming nurses have bachelor's degree.

Other workers (yarly quota - 10000) are separate (all illegals in BEC based on the life act, housekeepers, roofing/cooking specialists, plumbers and others).
Originally EB3 category was dedicated for IT high tech people. From INS point of view IT job does not require advanced degree, that's why attorneys filed majority of IT people as EB3 (inspite of their EB2 eligiability). Now they included nurses into EB3.

I see problem only fot high tech IT people because based on the retrogression for other world (except for China/India) USA says that they do not need IT Employment based immigrants, they need nurses and outstanding professors now.

I see they have potential plans to stop employment based immigration, only people who are eligiable for EB1 will be welcomed here.

Next month they can decide that they do not still have enough visas for Scheduled Workers A and take numbers for them from EB2 and EB2 can be retrogressed.

My prediction is that only EB1 will be available for immigration in the nearest future based on the simple math
 
Anjey said:
This is good. You are all so cute!
Let me guess. She will NEVER get back to you.-))



If you go to the lawyer - you will ALWAYS hear the processing time to be up to 2 years!
You can go to many offices and all of these people will NOT speak to you until the BOSS (Owner) speaks with you.
They will NEVER explain anything.
They want your money fool.


(Employees are not allowed to speak with customers because otherwise they would have to lie which is not their job!)
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As I said in my September 16th post she did get back to me:

berkeleybee said:
Here is what she had to say:

"Your numbers look right and I'll be interested to see if there are reports released in the near future that confirm your figures. I'm sure that more information will likely be forthcoming about this because there are many others like you who will be affected by this backlog and the visa cut off dates will certainly receive a great deal of attention and analysis in the coming weeks and months.

We will forward this on to a government official who works with these calculations to see if they will comment on this."

BTW, happily my firm is paying for the attorney. I haven't spent a cent on all of this so far. Not to gloat over all of you who are spending your own money, but really, our attorneys have not caused this problem.
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sfmars said:
Nurses take EB3 visas from the regular quota they are not related to other workers. The majority of coming nurses have bachelor's degree.

Other workers (yarly quota - 10000) are separate (all illegals in BEC based on the life act, housekeepers, roofing/cooking specialists, plumbers and others).
Originally EB3 category was dedicated for IT high tech people. From INS point of view IT job does not require advanced degree, that's why attorneys filed majority of IT people as EB3 (inspite of their EB2 eligiability). Now they included nurses into EB3.

I see problem only fot high tech IT people because based on the retrogression for other world (except for China/India) USA says that they do not need IT Employment based immigrants, they need nurses and outstanding professors now.

I see they have potential plans to stop employment based immigration, only people who are eligiable for EB1 will be welcomed here.

Next month they can decide that they do not still have enough visas for Scheduled Workers A and take numbers for them from EB2 and EB2 can be retrogressed.

My prediction is that only EB1 will be available for immigration in the nearest future based on the simple math
Click to expand...


Its probably true. US always work on supply and demand basis. Curently there is no dreath of supply of IT workers.
 
Relax guys and read the Schedule A thing PROPERLY

I wanted to respond to that misrepresenting post about Schedule A nurses yesterday (I forgot from whom) but I didnt have the time. Before I could respond some ten other guys have started lamenting about it :).

In a nutshell.... there is NOTHING in the REAL ID act of 2005, passed May 10, 2005 signed into law by W on May 11, 2005 that enables Schedule A workers to swamp your god-given 140K visa numbers.

Read Sec 502 of the act and if you cannot understand it, and I mean no offense guys, please dont *misrepresent* it.

Read the July 05 bulletin Section F for a clear description of how they are going to go about the recapture of the 50K unused visa numbers.

The nurses are going to eat into the regular EB3 quota *only* if their priority date is before the regular EB3 cutoff date. Their boon comes from the extra 50K numbers that will be made available to them from unused EB numbers from 2001 thru 2004 (which were never made available to EB1, EB2 or EB3 anyway).
 
I dont know why... but the way people became petrified of the nurses... cracks me up :). I guess ppl imagined a nurse stampede (of all the things that could happen to you) crushing their GC hopes :).
 
okay guys tell me this

Say EB3 have 15000 visas for 2005-2006, say there is no Technical worker with priority date before 1998 jan. Will the Schedule A workers use the 15000 numbers or will the dates move, considering the fact they did not find any technical worker with priority date before Jan.
 
infostarved said:
I wanted to respond to that misrepresenting post about Schedule A nurses yesterday (I forgot from whom) but I didnt have the time. Before I could respond some ten other guys have started lamenting about it :).

In a nutshell.... there is NOTHING in the REAL ID act of 2005, passed May 10, 2005 signed into law by W on May 11, 2005 that enables Schedule A workers to swamp your god-given 140K visa numbers.

Read Sec 502 of the act and if you cannot understand it, and I mean no offense guys, please dont *misrepresent* it.

Read the July 05 bulletin Section F for a clear description of how they are going to go about the recapture of the 50K unused visa numbers.

The nurses are going to eat into the regular EB3 quota *only* if their priority date is before the regular EB3 cutoff date. Their boon comes from the extra 50K numbers that will be made available to them from unused EB numbers from 2001 thru 2004 (which were never made available to EB1, EB2 or EB3 anyway).
Click to expand...

Just look at the http://travel.state.gov/visa/frvi/bulletin/bulletin_2631.html
one more time

Based on the rule unused EB1 should go to EB2, unused EB2 should go to EB3.
It never happened when visa in any category EB1 EB2 EB3 was unavailable, starting from this July EB3 bacame unavailable for everybody but in May they had given unused 50,000 EB visas to nurses.

EB3 All World -> PD= 01-MAR-01 it means almost nobody on the Earth can apply for I485 in EB3 category. The same time from October 40,000 should be available for the next year (there are just only quite a few people whose PD is older than 01-MAR-01 but definitly not 40,000).

The question is for whom they are going to reserve EB3 visas for this year for aliens from the Space ?

The answer is simple they want to save enough numbers for nurses from EB3 where all Schedule A Workers fall that's why Schedule A Workers in EB3 for any country have PD current.

If you read http://travel.state.gov/visa/frvi/bulletin/bulletin_2631.html
in section E you will understand this:

E. EMPLOYMENT PREFERENCE VISA AVAILABILTIY
....

Forward movement of the cut-off dates in these categories is likely to be limited.

It will be very depressing when you will realize that sometime in May of 2006 congress will decide to give unused EB3 visas from 2005 to nurses.
 
I guess what Infostarved said is correct

I guess what Infostarved said is correct
------------------------------------------------
F. VISA AVAILABILITY BASED ON THE “RECAPTURE” OF EMPLOYMENT-BASED NUMBERS

Title V, Section 502 of the REAL ID Act of 2005 (Division B of Pub. L. 109-13 enacted May 11, 2005) provides for the recapture of 50,000 Employment-based immigrant visa numbers that were unused in fiscal years 2001 through 2004. Such numbers are to be made available to Employment-based immigrants described in the Department of Labor's Schedule A and their accompanying spouses and children. The immigrant classification for these 50,000 visa numbers has been designated as Schedule A Worker with the category symbol being “EX”. Beginning immediately, “EX” visa numbers may be allocated to Schedule A immigrants and their dependents only; all other immigrants within the Third preference will continue to use the traditional Third preference classification. Note that any Schedule A applicant will first be eligible for a visa number under the traditional Third preference cut-off date. “EX” visa numbers may be allocated to all Third preference Schedule A applicants from all countries, including China, India, and Philippines, only if their priority date is beyond the established Third preference cut-off date or if the Third preference category is “Unavailable”. The “EX” category is CURRENT, and will remain Current for the foreseeable future.
 
Whatever

neha_wal said:
I guess what Infostarved said is correct
------------------------------------------------
F. VISA AVAILABILITY BASED ON THE “RECAPTURE” OF EMPLOYMENT-BASED NUMBERS

Title V, Section 502 of the REAL ID Act of 2005 (Division B of Pub. L. 109-13 enacted May 11, 2005) provides for the recapture of 50,000 Employment-based immigrant visa numbers that were unused in fiscal years 2001 through 2004. Such numbers are to be made available to Employment-based immigrants described in the Department of Labor's Schedule A and their accompanying spouses and children. The immigrant classification for these 50,000 visa numbers has been designated as Schedule A Worker with the category symbol being “EX”. Beginning immediately, “EX” visa numbers may be allocated to Schedule A immigrants and their dependents only; all other immigrants within the Third preference will continue to use the traditional Third preference classification. Note that any Schedule A applicant will first be eligible for a visa number under the traditional Third preference cut-off date. “EX” visa numbers may be allocated to all Third preference Schedule A applicants from all countries, including China, India, and Philippines, only if their priority date is beyond the established Third preference cut-off date or if the Third preference category is “Unavailable”. The “EX” category is CURRENT, and will remain Current for the foreseeable future.
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Tomorrow they will set cut off date for EB3 01-JAN-80 and Infostarved continue to be correct.
 
*Some* sched A workers (those with PDs before the EB3 cutoff) will get visa numbers out of the 15K - just as they have before. The rest of em will use the 50K that REAL ID provides them from unused EB numbers of 2001 thru 2004.

Will EB3 PDs move in your above example? Sure they will (simply because the above nurses got approved). The only morbid case where they will not move is when they found 15K nurses with PDs before the cutoff (and by some quirk of fate, not a single non-nurse EB3 worker).


neha_wal said:
Say EB3 have 15000 visas for 2005-2006, say there is no Technical worker with priority date before 1998 jan. Will the Schedule A workers use the 15000 numbers or will the dates move, considering the fact they did not find any technical worker with priority date before Jan.
Click to expand...
 
infostarved said:
*Some* sched A workers (those with PDs before the EB3 cutoff) will get visa numbers out of the 15K - just as they have before. The rest of em will use the 50K that REAL ID provides them from unused EB numbers of 2001 thru 2004.

Will EB3 PDs move in your above example? Sure they will (simply because the above nurses got approved). The only morbid case where they will not move is when they found 15K nurses with PDs before the cutoff (and by some quirk of fate, not a single non-nurse EB3 worker).
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infostarved,

What makes to be so sure in your analysis that EB3 PD will move ? Are you nurse yourself or your spouse is nurse ?

People should realize what US Department of State said:

Forward movement of the cut-off dates in these categories is likely to be limited.
 
infostarved said:
I wanted to respond to that misrepresenting post about Schedule A nurses yesterday (I forgot from whom) but I didnt have the time. Before I could respond some ten other guys have started lamenting about it :).

In a nutshell.... there is NOTHING in the REAL ID act of 2005, passed May 10, 2005 signed into law by W on May 11, 2005 that enables Schedule A workers to swamp your god-given 140K visa numbers.

Read Sec 502 of the act and if you cannot understand it, and I mean no offense guys, please dont *misrepresent* it.

Read the July 05 bulletin Section F for a clear description of how they are going to go about the recapture of the 50K unused visa numbers.

The nurses are going to eat into the regular EB3 quota *only* if their priority date is before the regular EB3 cutoff date. Their boon comes from the extra 50K numbers that will be made available to them from unused EB numbers from 2001 thru 2004 (which were never made available to EB1, EB2 or EB3 anyway).
Click to expand...
I am the guy that you believe misrepresenting the Schedule A case. I read the part you referred to and realized part of my explanation was wrong. However,

Please think about my case:
I have Jan/03 PD and I couldn’t file 485. I expect to file my 485 at least two years later--optimistic. There are thousands of people like me.
Suppose I can file my 485 in October/2007, I have to go through the minimum waiting period, plus NAME CHECK. The day I actually need a visa number to get 485 approved could be October/2008 or 2009, depending on my NAME CHECK status.

For all Schedule A nurse, physical therapist and all potential people who will be eligible for Schedule A-----I believe a lot of people will consider this major to be on GC fast track----and all their spouses, kids, all of them can FILE 485 NOW. Their 485 will go to name check, finger print, RFE, and ready to be approved.

The day before their cases are approved, Department of State will decide which quota this Schedule A family belongs to, regular EB3 quota or 50K quota?
As long as their PD is before EB3 cut-off date THAT DAY, they will use EB3 regular quota first, when my 485 file and thousand of people’s 485 files are waiting for the finger print appointment, NAME CHECK and RFE, also thousands of people’s 485 files are still with courier since the cut-off date just move beyond their PD.

Finally, if you are not from retro affected countries, you may ignore this. If you are, I am not 100% sure if Schedule A will go to 7% maximum rule for a single country. I think it will.

Welcome your input.
 
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dear sfmars

Dear sfmars,
As you would read infostartved's response, he/she just made a correct and clear statement. What I had asked was 'if there are no technical workers with PD before Jan'98, the what will happen. And he has rightly responded saying 'Only those schedule A workers who have their PD befor 98 Jan will use the EB3 number rest of them will use the numbers from 50K quota' I think it's pretty simple. As far as 'JNPR' response is concerned I don't understand what he/she wrote, what is NAME CHECK ?
 
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