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People who were selected for DV 2012 (IMPORTANT)

Kwame O said:
Sonibago, what is fairness? Though the computer erroneously selected some people, I think they should still be given the chance to proceed. It is important that we all recognized that it was not their fault; they did not cheat the system, they did not manipulate the computer, they did absolutely nothing to be selected. Because of this error any decision taken by DOS can not be completely fair. There two possible options: keep the initial winners and redraw the rest or run a new lottery for all applicants. Both options is unfair. It will be unfair to the initial winners if a new lottery is run because they did absolutely nothing wrong and did not take advantage of the other applicants or the system to win. It will also be unfair to those who did not win because the computer erred. The question now become how can the degree of unfairness be reduced in both instances?

If the first option is taken, those who did not win have another chance to be selected. If the second option is taken, those who did not win still have another chance to be selected. But there is everything for the initial winners to lose if the second option is taken because some or all of them might win again or some or all of them might not win again. Based on this, I am of the opinion that the initial winners must be given to chance to proceed.
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I'm going to ask you some questions too:

What is fairness?

What did the losers do? did they cheat the system, did they manipulate the computer?

What did DOS do to overcome the degree of unfairness in both groups?

Is keeping the 22000 erroneous winners as winners breaking the law?

Is putting everybody back in the pool and re-drawing breaking the law?

Is picking 78000 out of 14 million the same probability as picking 90000 out of how many applied on 5th and 6th?

Is the probability of 100000 out of 14 million the same whether drawn on May 1 or July 15?

I look forward to your answers.
 
sonibago said:
I'm going to ask you some questions too:

What is fairness?

What did the losers do? did they cheat the system, did they manipulate the computer?

What did DOS do to overcome the degree of unfairness in both groups?

Is keeping the 22000 erroneous winners as winners breaking the law?

Is putting everybody back in the pool and re-drawing breaking the law?

Is picking 78000 out of 14 million the same probability as picking 90000 out of how many applied on 5th and 6th?

Is the probability of 100000 out of 14 million the same whether drawn on May 1 or July 15?

I look forward to your answers.
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Hey,

No one is breaking ANY law here. It is important you recognized that. My simple opinion is that, because of the error created any of the two options is unfair. As a result the DV 2012 can not be completely fair to anyone.

Assuming that the 22000 are breaking the law but are granted amnesty and still given the chance to proceed because the computer caused this error. And a new lottery is run for 100,000 excluding the initial winners, would that meet your definition of fairness.

I can wager that people will still say no. So really the whole point, is not all about fairness.
 
Kwame O said:
Hey,

No one is breaking ANY law here. It is important you recognized that. My simple opinion is that, because of the error created any of the two options is unfair. As a result the DV 2012 can not be completely fair to anyone.

Assuming that the 22000 are breaking the law but are granted amnesty and still given the chance to proceed because the computer caused this error. And a new lottery is run for 100,000 excluding the initial winners, would that meet your definition of fairness.

I can wager that people will still say no. So really the whole point, is not all about fairness.
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Apparently you have misunderstood my question about breaking the law. How can I say or imply that the 22000 are breaking the law? what have they done to break the law? On what basis can I make such an assertion? The only action taken was by the DOS.

I asked the question in reference to the DOS taking the decision in order to comply with the law that governs the DV lottery. If they did not take that decision it would amount to breaking the law since they concluded that the draw was not random as required by the law. Do you understand what I was getting at now? You assumed erroneously that I implied that the 22000 broke some law.

The law calls for a random draw of qualified applicants, the DOS determined that the drawing was not random and hence did not comply with the LAW, so it was invalid and therefore voided.
 
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Kwame O said:
Hey,
Assuming that the 22000 are breaking the law but are granted amnesty and still given the chance to proceed because the computer caused this error.
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amnesty? lol
lottery win is not equal to green card. remember it. anyway there's no lottery before 15th July. so 22000 are victims of them gods.
 
sonibago said:
Apparently you have misunderstood my question about breaking the law. How can I say or imply that the 22000 are breaking the law? what have they done to break the law? On what basis can I make such an assertion? The only action taken was by the DOS.
I asked the question in reference to the DOS taking the decision in order to comply with the law that governs the DV lottery. If they did not take that decision it would amount to breaking the law since they concluded that the draw was not random as required by the law. Do you understand what I was getting at now? You assumed erroneously that I implied that the 22000 broke some law.

The law calls for a random draw of qualified applicants, the DOS determined that the drawing was not random and hence did not comply with the LAW, so it was invalid and therefore voided.
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ok
 
Kwame O said:
It was an assumption based on the on-going discussion.
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maybe you should come to terms with the fact that everything has been done with justice and to understand that rolling back the results on May 1 is impossible because there is a law. but if you want to cry, call your mom.
 
ajk said:
I must say the sense of entitlement on this forum is truly awe inspiring! The willingness to try and coerce/extort green cards out of the US government due to what is effectively a technical failure is also astounding!

It is a truly sad and i imagine frustrating event for those who were told they were winners i can understand that.

But the fact would appear to remain, those previously selected were selected in error and due to an UNFAIR advantage in their favor stemming from a technical issue. As frustrating as it would be, i respect the decision of DOS to do it again and hopefully do it right! Millions of others who were unfairly excluded fromm the original draw should feel the same.

I would rather live in a society based on this type of fairness and integrity than some notion of justice springing from an oportunistic extortion fueled by human/technical error.

Once again, truly sorry for those greeted with the sad news; best of luck with the redraw when everyone is on a level playing field.

ajk
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Ah, well said...Hats off !!

Look...... those of you 'heart broken',

There is a simple FACT here.
The DoS has realized that due to an (alleged) 'technical error' US LAW (INA) was broken in the selection process!!
When the law is broken, there is no simple way out, hence the decision to rescind the results altogether.

Those 'winners' can cry aloud that they were innocent victims. True.... but, you have to realize that had the DoS go ahead with the status quo (however you want to cut it) they are susceptible to law suite 'cos the origin was flawed. The DoS attorneys' advise must have been laud and clear.....rescind the results and deal with the insider culprits who are responsible....technical or otherwise.

The 'error' for the moment is just perceived a tech. one, but mark my word........ there may be a lot into it!!
Insider fraud was just as much a threat to DV program as those from the applicants.
See pp 7-12 http://judiciary.house.gov/legacy/93387.PDF
I hope the DoS OIG would do an audit on this program again, one which seems to have not done since 2004. High time now they take a good look at this 'monster' inside out!!

Best!
 
may be we should start believing 2012 is the end of the world......cos why would a country that all other countries are looking on to make such a costly mistake, well i guess its not natural, a friend of mine played on 10th oct and won, i gave him the news of the redraw yesterday and he just went numb, i hope DOS should make a reconsideration about the former winners cos its not their fault.
..........please what has bill gates said about this issue?
 
There was no such thing as computer mistake in the premise of DV Lottery. In order for the invalidation to be legal, there should have been an agreement on the possibility for that. All the winners are legal winners, withdrawn in harmony with U.S. Immigration Law. There was no, nor even minor contribution of winners to the withdrawal outcome of Lottery, therefore, voiding the legitimate result is - illegal!

We are LEGAL owners of our luck and right on DV application! DOS should find a legal way to solve THEIR own mistake (or whatever this is).
 
everyone should understand that no one says winners have also won the green card. and exactly this point is important.....
we have the right to go for further processing... out of the 22000 maybe only a few 1000 will make it to a green card but you cant take this right from them it is stupid what kind of fairness is this
 
One of my friends tried to apply for a Visit VISA to USA 2 months before the results , and the consular told him , I can't issue you a non-immigrant visa because YOUR SELECTED FOR FURTHER PROCESSING !!!!!! , my friend was really surprised and thought that they are liar , on the day of the result , we found that he actually WON !! , the moral of the story is that THEY KNEW the results before us many months ago , HOW COME they didn't investigate that ERROR months ago ?!

I smell something really rotten here !!

Also I'm a Software Engineer, any SMALL software should be TESTED several times !! and its not a software working for end users , its a GOVERNMENTAL software and it was working years ago....

Selecting Winners from two days ONLY , is a FAIR process, you shouldn't trust in stupid semi-conductor Devices !! , there is nothing RANDOM 100% in real life, maybe after 10 years , it select only the last two days !! , and that what a LOTTERY means , it's not a MUST to select over a period .
 
keona said:
I'm not arguing for my case. Sorry. Just want fairness.

If you think it's fair, go ahead and think that way I cant stop you from that. If you think thousand of people deserve emotional crisis (I was spiting blood first two minutes, after realizing that I have being played by the government)

God bless you.
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Hello! I am one of that guys, that won the chance to go to interview. It was disaster. I don't know what to do with my wife. She is in such stress... She cry all these days. We will have invitro these days and this stress is so dangerous... She cry, cry and cry. And I only can watch her and nothing to say. This is crime against our hopes. I preffer never to see that we won. It will be easy to move on, if we didn't lived few days in the world of miracles and dreams...
I am afraid, that my wife is so desperate and she will do something stupid. What I can do? We received hope. We lived in hope 13 days. Prepared the documents, sent them to KCC. One guy from KCC signed and got our documents. Now they will be thrown in the trash can.
Is this fair? US Government 13 days was silent. The operators from KCC all said that everything is ok. Our hope was alive. Alive! And now we are in the trashcan.
I feel like the guy in the movie called "The Terminal" - Tom Hanks. Do you remember what happen in this movie? One russian guy was arrested, because he transported medicine for his old father. In the movie the poor kirkosian guy lie that the medicine is for goat. And he said, that the law is for the human, not against them.
What to do with my wife? What to tell her? She dreamed 6 years for that moment. And when she received the case number, she was told that this is mistake :(
 
elliotnes said:
All the winners are legal winners, withdrawn in harmony with U.S. Immigration Law.
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This is exactly what they are not.

Absolutely no one said that these people have done anything wrong or have broken the law themselves. This is not the case and I believe that everyone acknowledges it.

However, this does not mean that the results are in any way legal.

People, KCC stood up and told all the world that the result does not meet the law due to an error. Although very respectable, the statement itself is a political suicide in the US. For the people in office to confirm and say aloud that they have allowed anything that is against the law, it means that there indeed *is* something fishy about the entire outcome of the draw.

Yes, KCC are to blame, yes, they should have tested, yes, they s**ew up big time. (pardon my French...) *BUT* this does not make any demand to allow further proceedings of the first winners a righteous one.

Furthermore, as I have already said several times, if they accept the 22 000 as valid winners, this will be against the VERY SAME law that made them void the results in the first place. It's catch 22. If they were to "work around" this law in order to meet people's expectation, they would not have called the re-draw.

The 22 000 applicants who were unlucky enough to check their results on May 1-5 - I am very sorry and I do feel your pain, but please, please, please man up and move on.
You are collateral damage.
Respect your own nerves, money and time and turn the page. I wish you the best of luck in life, no matter inside or outside of the US. And again, I am truly sorry that you had to go through all this.
 
I advice you not to waste your money and time hiring the service of an immigration lawyer against the Department of State because you will have a tiny 3% chances of winning them. For instance i have seen a person that won and was denied based on some flimpsy reasons. May GOD be with us.
 
Folks who won should sue the maker of that software used in the lottery draw. How can you sue the US govt if you're not a US citizen? Remember GC holders can't vote and by winning this lottery you're not even a GC holder. You're way down the totem pole.
 
I too smell something rotten... The visa "book an appointment" system is down. All over...

I'm not a fan of conspiracy theories, but this cannot be a coincidence.

I'm a DV-2012 initial winner too, btw. Cannot believe any of this. And I hope hope hope that this is not the end of it all... If protestors can make them check the system, so can our protest make then include our winnings again.
And how many protestors could there have been? I mean, only people who look at forums knew that something was wrong...

I am also thinking about those people who won, sent their application and doesn't even know that it is invalid. Fårk this really sucks.
 
seunadey said:
..........please what has bill gates said about this issue?
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bill gates said he would sent "winners" absolutely FREE windows 7 copy.;)

Terko said:
What to do with my wife? What to tell her? She dreamed 6 years for that moment. And when she received the case number, she was told that this is mistake :(
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possible she would like to marry real winner after 15th July ;)
doksy said:
And I hope hope hope that this is not the end of it all... If protestors can make them check the system, so can our protest make then include our winnings again.
And how many protestors could there have been? I mean, only people who look at forums knew that something was wrong...
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well you can come to us embassy and burn the US flag. i believe they will accept your petition and present you GC in red box immediatly. good luck. :up:
 
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