JUNE VISA BULLETIN PREDICTIONS...Time to tie the knot with your Greencard

Visa Number By Particular Country

saras7
If most of the visa demand decisions are made on "anticipated demand" that means what? There are only 8 cases of adjustments of status in regards to country Bahrain in year 2006. If they they do not know the breakdown of visa numbers by nationalities -how do they determine the visa available dates as published on Murthy.com. Please put some more light.

Thanks
 
Jackolantern,
Can you please explain how does this work ? Table V PartII ,Immigrant visa issued and adjustments of status Fiscal Year 2006 shows only 8 for country BAHRAIN.in employment catagory. How to find if the visa number for Bahrain is combined with ASIA or it has its own percentage share.
Thanks
Percentages only matter if a given country is going to use up 7% of the total for a category. And when they enforce the percentages, they only look at individual countries, not continents.
 
saras7
If most of the visa demand decisions are made on "anticipated demand" that means what? There are only 8 cases of adjustments of status in regards to country Bahrain in year 2006. If they they do not know the breakdown of visa numbers by nationalities -how do they determine the visa available dates as published on Murthy.com. Please put some more light.

Thanks
Apparently they set the dates based on the I-485 applications they expect to be coming in, not on actual data taken from the I-140s in their hands. So it's just a big bunch of guesswork (like our guesswork trying to predict the dates! :eek: ), and last year they guessed wrong to the extent of 11000 unused green cards.
 
I wouldn't say total guesswork..

Apparently they set the dates based on the I-485 applications they expect to be coming in, not on actual data taken from the I-140s in their hands. So it's just a big bunch of guesswork (like our guesswork trying to predict the dates! :eek: ), and last year they guessed wrong to the extent of 11000 unused green cards.

I would not go so far as to say that the entire thing is based on guesswork but there is enough evidence now to believe that a "fair amount" (say 40%) of the whole visa movement thing is based on historical/future anticipated demand figures. A concisous effort is made to not go overboard with the PD movement because they do not want to overwhelm the USCIS or run out of visas quickly. PLUS, I believe a conscious effort has also been made to keep the workload at a mangeable level and not let things get out of hand as they had between 2002-2005. The threat of thousands of 245is streaming into the USCIS has also kept a lid on PD movement. A conservative approach has helped clean up the whole system all the while esnuring USCIS would be ready to handle the flood from the BECs. The "flood" from the BECs has been the biggest source of the "guesswork" and the head of the DHS pretty much said as much last month on Murthys site.

Needless to say that this approach has screwed over older PDs from India EB3 and EB2. ALSO, as UN has pointed out several times, between 2002-2005 India EB3 when there was no cap or retro, India took up a lot of visas. A concisous effort has been made to stop that from happening as well.

cheers,

saras
 
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Here are some facts that should help most people understand that most of the visa demand decisions are made on "anticipated demand"
............
PS: None of this is meant to refute the fact that the demand for EB3 India remains high and that the situation is dire. Neither is the above meant to indicate that dates are being artifically retrogressed. All that is being said is that the whole process is a mess and one can ONLY expect to get lucky.

later,

saras
My comments were limited to the contents in Murthy's quoted letter and to Immi_expoited post. After reading the news letter it appears that there will be some movement in India EB2/EB3.

My point is this, any kind of movement whether it is months or weeks may not help people who are already waiting greatly if India gets only 3000 visas per category. However if it is going to be many months then it is based on anticipated demand and if it is weeks then it is based on unused visas.

After reading the news letter, it appears that this would be movement based on anticipated demand.

In either case it is too late for a person filing 485 newly in the coming three months to get approved before October. Where as for the people in line I doubt there are enough visas to make any difference as there are not many approvals for already waiting guys.

If the visa numbers are going to remain 3000/category, the forward movement will only help people to file their 485; that may not be bad deal for many.
 
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I think they'll wait for the labor substitution ban to be officially published before moving the dates for India. Until it is banned, there will always be some old labors out there being pushed through the system and stopping the dates from moving.
 
Once labor substitution is gone, how far do you think the dates will move.

Is it fair to say that there may be close to 240,000 people from India walking around without greencard. (estimated as 20,000 per year h-1b from 2000 and double it for dependents so 40,000 times six years). Note: this is only h-1b not including other types of visas and 245i's and their dependents.

20K might be a very conservative number. Note that in 3 of the years since 2000 the H1B quota was 195K. AFAIK the quota was not hit in all those years, but still 60K H1-Bs for three years, followed by 30K for the next 3 is a distinct possibility. Thats a scary 270K cases pending in various stages, and with dependents its half a million.
 
Are there any statistics available about how many left the shores of U.S.A ?

Realistically whoever came and hung for the difficult period of 2001-2-3 when lay off were thick in air, is likely to be to here.

Even if assuming a high rate of 30% of these returned the figures are not good. No solution till for India and EB-3 ROW till a legislation comes in.




I figured that it was more. Just wanted to underestimate for variables such as people who didn't come to usa or left.

from 2001-2005 if I go from the top of my head, I think there was 150,000 total greencards given to indian nationals. I'd say that during this timeframe with labor processing speeds it was for people who came on h-1b from 1997-2001 who got greencards at that time. Even if you take the number of people who would have came during that time and doubled the count for dependents, it would have been way more then 150,000. therefore, there is good possibility that there are many from late 1990's still waiting and the ones who came after 2000 haven't gotten greencard yet...

Therefore, labor substitution end should really move the dates forward by a great amount.:rolleyes:
 
Once labor substitution is gone, how far do you think the dates will move.

Is it fair to say that there may be close to 240,000 people from India walking around without greencard. (estimated as 20,000 per year h-1b from 2000 and double it for dependents so 40,000 times six years). Note: this is only h-1b not including other types of visas and 245i's and their dependents.
Very few of those 240,000 still without a green card started the green card process in 2001 or before.

Assuming they ban labor substitution, I expect EB3 India to reach into mid 2003 within a year from now. Then the date will move reeeeaallllllly slowly, when they hit the bulk of that 240,000 people. Without a law change, anybody from EB3 India with a PD in 2004 can expect a 15 year wait; anybody after that can only expect a posthumous green card.

However, it may become a self-limiting trend. As the prospect of a green card becomes an impossible dream, many won't even bother to start the process. Their mentality will be to work here for 3-6 years, change jobs often in order to make as much money as possible, and take their savings and go back home or to a third country. That may keep things in the range of a 10 year wait instead of posthumous.
 
I don't know what you guys are seeing from your acquaintences but my experience growing up in Canada was that the people who came to Canada always dreamed of going back home. Many went and came right back. You spend 3 to 4 years living in this society, it just can't be that easy to go back home.
It's not that hard to go back if you come here without thinking of a green card and there is nothing to encourage you into thinking you'll get a green card.

I spent 4 years here as a student in the early 1990s and went back home without any deep desire to stay here. Some of my foreign-born colleagues were also here in the early to mid 1990s as a student or on H-1 when it wasn't a common thing to file a green card for anybody. They spent a few years here, did their thing and went back. When they (and I) came back in the late 1990s/early 2000s, the green card became an important recruiting and retention tool being used by more and more companies, and more people got lured into the prospect of a green card. That's when it became hard for them to go back.

With employment prospects improving a lot in people's own countries, and the green card getting increasingly out of reach, those who come here will increasingly have the temporary mentality of working here for a few years to save as much as possible then go back home or move on to a third country. No buying a house or nice cars or other expensive things. No sticking with one employer for 5+ years. Just live light, change jobs often, save a lot, leave.
 
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Are there any statistics available about how many left the shores of U.S.A ?

Realistically whoever came and hung for the difficult period of 2001-2-3 when lay off were thick in air, is likely to be to here.

Even if assuming a high rate of 30% of these returned the figures are not good. No solution till for India and EB-3 ROW till a legislation comes in.

Lot of qualified people hung around even if the salaries were low during that time. I would say the demand for India EB2 in 2003 would be very high; it would be no way comparable to EB2 from late 2002. First few months of 2003 would have as many India EB2 as the entire second half of 2002. I can say this by looking into the BEC trackers, mostly the people are with MCA and few years experience after coming between late '99 - early '00.

There is this guy gp111 in california tracker used to get lot of statistics on pending labors at BECs by month and year. I think some them got their approvals last year, I doubt they are doing it now.
 
Very few of those 240,000 still without a green card started the green card process in 2001 or before.

Assuming they ban labor substitution, I expect EB3 India to reach into mid 2003 within a year from now. Then the date will move reeeeaallllllly slowly, when they hit the bulk of that 240,000 people. Without a law change, anybody from EB3 India with a PD in 2004 can expect a 15 year wait; anybody after that can only expect a posthumous green card.

However, it may become a self-limiting trend. As the prospect of a green card becomes an impossible dream, many won't even bother to start the process. Their mentality will be to work here for 3-6 years, change jobs often in order to make as much money as possible, and take their savings and go back home or to a third country. That may keep things in the range of a 10 year wait instead of posthumous.

there is another point too ..when was the law passed allowing people with labor pending for a year to get yearly extensions ? ..I know many people with good skills who went back and settled in India (and have stayed back ..either starting new companies or getting managerial post ..and in turn training new engineers in india).
many people from India were asked to go back and work in Indian branches (the other option for them was layoff) ..for eg companies like I2.
in other words ..I think number of people waiting from India may be less than 2,40,000
 
there is another point too ..when was the law passed allowing people with labor pending for a year to get yearly extensions ? ..I know many people with good skills who went back and settled in India (and have stayed back ..either starting new companies or getting managerial post ..and in turn training new engineers in india).
many people from India were asked to go back and work in Indian branches (the other option for them was layoff) ..for eg companies like I2.
in other words ..I think number of people waiting from India may be less than 2,40,000
I would consider I2 as an extreme example but this is not to deny that people with good skills were offered jobs in India. In my opinion, we cannot just account them for visa number calculations.
 
BECs

Most non-245i/non-RIR cases from 2001 and before did not go to the BECs. Most of the RIR cases in the BECs are from 2002onwards.

later,

saras
 
That is what I dont understand, are all those 245i cases already clear or not
Mine is from2004 and was approved almost 6 months ago
 
Relief ..

It is a well known fact that any movement that may occur due to "anticipation" or whatever will only benefit 2001 filers from India EB3 (if at all). The situation for India EB3 beyond 2001 is not going to improve in the short term.

later,

saras
 
Cut and Paste ...

from November 2005 visa bulletin

http://travel.state.gov/visa/frvi/bulletin/bulletin_2712.html

D. EMPLOYMENT PREFERENCE VISA AVAILABILITY

The backlog reduction efforts of both Citizenship and Immigration Services and the Department of Labor continue to result in very heavy demand for Employment-based numbers. The amount of cases currently being processed is sufficient to use all available numbers in many categories. The level of demand in the Employment categories is expected to be far in excess of the annual limits, and once established, cut-off date movements are likely to be slow.

WHAT CAUSES THE ESTABLISHMENT OF CUT-OFF DATES?

The Visa Office subdivides the annual preference and foreign state limitations specified in the Immigration and Nationality Act (INA) into twelve monthly allotments. The totals of documentarily qualified applicants that have been reported to VO are compared each month with the numbers available for the next regular allotment and numbers are allocated to reported applicants in order of their priority dates, the oldest dates first.

If there are sufficient numbers in a particular category to satisfy all reported documentarily qualified demand, the category is considered “Current.” For example, if the Employment Third preference monthly target is 5,000 and there are only 3,000 applicants, the category is considered “Current”.
Whenever the total of documentarily qualified applicants in a category exceeds the supply of numbers available for allotment for the particular month, the category is considered to be “oversubscribed” and a visa availability cut-off date is established. The cut-off date is the priority date of the first documentarily qualified applicant who could not be accommodated for a visa number. For example, if the Employment Third preference monthly target is 5,000 and there are 15,000 applicants, a cut-off date would be established so that only 5,000 numbers would be used, and the cut-off date would be the priority date of the 5,001st applicant.
WILL THERE BE CUT-OFF DATES FOR ANY ADDITIONAL FOREIGN STATES IN THE FIRST AND SECOND PREFERENCE CATEGORIES?

It may be necessary to establish a cut-off date for the “All Chargeability Areas” Second preference category at some point during the second half of the fiscal year. It is too early to estimate whether future demand will warrant such action. As of October 1st, cut-off dates for the First and Second preferences for China and India were established due to heavy demand; cut-off date movement is expected to be limited until a demand pattern has been determined.

WHY ARE THERE CUT-OFF DATES THIS YEAR AS OPPOSED TO PREVIOUS YEARS, WHEN THE CATEGORIES WERE CURRENT?

While the Employment categories had been “Current” for almost four years, several important factors affected the decision to implement cut-offs for FY-2006.

Prior to July 2001, demand for Employment numbers was such that cut-off dates were in effect for many categories, and that is the case once again for FY-2006.
The reasons the Employment categories had become current were:

The American Competitiveness in the Twenty-First Century Act (AC21) recaptured a “pool” of 131,000 Employment numbers unused in fiscal years 1999 and 2000, and allowed those recaptured numbers to be used by the oversubscribed countries, and
The substantial decline in demand for numbers for adjustment of status cases prevented the annual limits from being reached for several years.
In FY-2006, we are faced with continuing heavy demand due to the DHS and DOL backlog reduction efforts, along with an Employment limit which is approximately 40% lower than that of FY-2005. The lower annual Employment limit is a result of the virtual elimination of the “pool” of recaptured AC21 numbers, returning us to the pre-July 2001 situation.


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Once again; "demand", "documentarily qualified applicants" is USCIS demand for visa numbers from department of state. Look at the last paragraph "the substantial decline in demand for numbers for adjustment of status cases prevented the annual limits from being reached for several years".... There was always more labors at state level, federal level, I-140's, etc. for all of these years but they didn't retrogress it in 2001-2005. Only in 2005 they realized they broke the law and are now doing it exactly the way the law is written.

Back in 2005 the reason eb3 went unavailable is because in April 2005; uscis approved 35,000 employment base greencards based on pressure from Ombudsmen; it went unavailable shortly thereafter. If many of the cases which are stuck in name check become adjudication ready then uscis has demand for the visa numbers then you will also see the same issue.

Round and round we go...

UN,

Here are expcerpts from the bulletin from March 2007

E. EMPLOYMENT THIRD PREFERENCE VISA AVAILABILITY DURING THE COMING MONTHS

Little if any forward movement in the Employment Third preference category is expected in the near future. Recent discussions with both Citizenship and Immigration Services (CIS) and the Department of Labor indicate that the demand for numbers with pre-August 2002 priority dates is likely to be extremely high in the coming months as both agencies continue to work on their backlogs. This could easily cause a retrogression of the current Employment Third preference cut-off dates should that demand begin to materialize at CIS offices during the spring and summer months.

Here is an excerpt from latest May bulletin

F. VISA AVAILABILITY DURING THE COMING MONTHS

Recent discussions have indicated that both the Citizenship and Immigration Services (CIS) and the Department of Labor still have a significant amount of cases in their backlog reduction efforts. As a result, the anticipated increase in demand has not yet materialized and may not for some time. Therefore, in an effort to maximize number use under the annual numerical limit, the Worldwide and Philippines Employment Third preference cut-off dates have been advanced by one year.

Unless there is a significant increase in Employment demand, it will be necessary to continue this rate of movement during the upcoming months. Such movement could be expanded to include other chargeability areas and preference categories.

One consequence of rapid cut-off date advancement is the inevitable increase in demand for numbers as adjustment of status cases are brought to conclusion at CIS Offices. Such increased demand could have dramatic impact on the cut-off dates. Readers will be provided as much advance notice as possible should this occur.

Really shows how much weight a "cut and paste" from a damn bulletin proves. Unless you tell me that you are actually running DHS and DOL from your office/home (thinking that you do DOES NOT COUNT) then please stop cutting and pasting same old crap.

later,

saras
 
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Saras you are right, the last 2 bulletins kind of contradict themselves
I dont know what to believe anymore
 
From my experience and talking to people; they told me failure wasn't an option. Embarassment of going back without a greencard, family pressure (arranged marriage
> predicated on spouse coming to USA) did whaever they >could do to stay..
actually what I was trying to say is that 2,40,000 is the worst case ..I am sure number of indians waiting from 2001 to 2004 is lower than that.
there were many people with 2-3 h1b petitions ..
I would think that the people who chose to stay back even if they didnt have a job ....must have ended up working in gas stations etc ..i.e. must have gone out of status ..
(and most likely were not qualified in the first place).

once out of status ..I wonder how they would have become legal again ?
 
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