Indian citizen baby born in US - have others had this situation?

Citizenship Issues

tamtom said:
If you read the earlier discussion in this thread by leonidas666, you would realize that actually the rule against dual passports from the Indian side isn't even in law. Technically, the rule is one loses Indian citizenship when "voluntarily acquiring" a foreign citizenship, and a foreign passport is evidence of that. But such a conclusion is hard to sustain where the other country makes its passport mandatory.

On the US side, although the passport is mandatory, there are a number of waiver possibilities within existing regulations.

In short, if the two countries decide to fix the problem, there are technically easy ways for them to do so while both remaining largely within the frameworks of their existing laws. The main thing blocking progress is they don't yet perceive that it's important to fix the problem.

--Tamtom
Click to expand...


Dear Tamtom

Your research on the issues of Indian citizenship are really extensive and have been really helpful to me and my husband. Although, we dont line in the US...we live in Singapore but are faced a similar situation where foreign citizenship is aquired involuntarily by birth...

our story is this...

My husband is Singaporean and I am Indian. We want the baby to be an Indian citizen. We understand that baby has right to be a citizen by
descent (Section 4(1) of the Citizenship (Amendment) Act 2003 since I am an Indian. Singapore Government informs us that the baby is a Singaporean by birth as he is born in Singapore to an Singaporean father. We believe that this citizenship is involuntarily acquired (as we do not want Singaporean citizenship for the baby but have no choice but to take it up) and we want to be able to renounce the Singapore citizenship for the baby as soon as we can.(which by Singapore laws can only happen once baby turns 21).

We understand that baby cant hold 2 passports by Indian law and therefore we wont take the Singapore passport and only take the Indian passport. Singapore Govt has clarified that it is not mandatory to take the
Singapore passport and the baby can have an Indian passport.

We approached the Indian High Com in Singapore recently explaining to them that although we wont be in a position to give an undertaking that baby does not hold nationality of any other country as Singapore citizenship is involuntarily acquired. However, we can give an undertaking that the baby does not hold passport of any other country.

Like you explained, Section 4(1)(A) of the Indian Citizenship (Amendment )Act 2003 also states that minors who are citizen by descent can hold another country's citizenship until they reaches full age. This seems to be permitted under Indian law.

We tried to explain the above to Indian High Com in Singapore; they told us that noone has relied on the 2003 amendments until now in SIngapore and we are the first case in SIngapore.

We believe the baby has a right to hold an Indian passport and be an Indian citizen. If you could help give advice on how to convince the Indian High Com to let the baby have an Indian passport and citizenship? (Incidentally for processing the passport, one of the documents the Indian High Com needs is a birth certificate from the hospital- in our case the birth certificate will mention that the baby is Singaporean....afraid that they will reject the passport application oonce they see the birth cert)

Like you we feel strongly abt the baby having indian citizenship and passport...am sure u'll understand the sentiments...

really look fwd to your advise!

Best regards

Vanda
 
us born baby of indian parents

dear vanda,
i am in a similar situation to yours.i live in the usa my wife is due in a couple of weeks and i want my baby to hold indian passport and citizenship.please advise.and let me know of how u went about in solving this issue.
any one reading this post with most acurate info and advice pls reply.
thank you
indian baby
 
Hi All

I am in similar situation as Vanda / Tomtom. Me and my wife are Indian citizens. Our kid is going to be born in USA in a few weeks.

Did anybody figure out a way by which our kid can maintain his Indian Citizenship and does not have any problem in traveling to and from India.

-Mohit
 
n400jan18 said:
I am traveling to India in 2 weeks. I will go to the Airport and enquire with the immigration people. Also if you read the web site it says " Beginning January 23, 2007, ALL persons, including U.S. citizens, traveling by air between the United States and Canada, Mexico, Central and South America, the Caribbean, and Bermuda will be required to present a valid passport, Air NEXUS card, or U.S. Coast Guard Merchant Mariner Document, or an Alien Registration Card, Form I-551, if applicable.". The point a valid passport was always required for travel between Indai and the USA. I will keep you posted.
Click to expand...

Hi n400jan18

Were you able to successfully travel with your child's Notarized birth certificate again OR Did you have to finally get the US Passport and renounce their Indian Passport for the time being.

I was hoping I could use the same way as you. Indian passport + "US Birth Certifacate". We are expecting our child in a few weeks.

-Mohit
 
mohitbs said:
Hi n400jan18

Were you able to successfully travel with your child's Notarized birth certificate again OR Did you have to finally get the US Passport and renounce their Indian Passport for the time being.

I was hoping I could use the same way as you. Indian passport + "US Birth Certifacate". We are expecting our child in a few weeks.

-Mohit
Click to expand...

No Mohit. When my wife and the child went to the airport in Detroit to take a plane to Mumbai enroute London, the British airways people called up London to see weather my daughter could be issues a boarding pass. We were then told that she will not be allowed to land in London w/o a american passport or at a minimum she would have to have a visa from a common wealth country. I informed them that she had gone to India two times Via Frankfurt without any problem but that did not make any difference. So next day early in the morning I went to the Canadian consulate to get my daughter a Canadian Visa which would be enough for the British. However the canadian consulate told me that there is no way they can issue a travel Visa to a person with a US birth certificate. Hence I was back at square one. I had two options. One cancel the BA ticket and rebook with Lufthansa. Two get a us passport. I decided to do the later and contacted a Passport service and got a passport within 48 hours ( $300 + passport fees). I had to go to Chicago the next day and get a Visa for her and ultimately they left on Friday instead on Monday and lost 4 days of vacation. Now I have OCI for her. Hence she has a US passport with a OCI VISA. Hence if you do not want to take a US passport then do not travel Via London. We did not have any problem when we took Lufthans the last two times.
 
Acquiring Indian citizenship for US born kid

I went through most of the discussions, still don't have an answer to my situation. I would really appreciate if someone helps me on this.

My son born in US on Dec 7th 2004. I didn't register in indian consulate, I got his US passport, got a PIO card from Indian consulate and came to India in 2005. Now I want to change my son's citizenship from US to India. Can any one let me know if this is possible and if so, how this can be done?

Thanks,
Hari.
 
How come you guys don't want to let the child acquire his foreign citizenship and just get an OCI on top of that so as not to restrict travel to India? Is it for patriotic reasons? The way I see it, having an American or Singaporean passport makes travel for your child hassle-free. In the future, the child will be able to re-acquire Indian citizenship after living for a year in India, if I'm not mistaken, should the child want to do so. I do strongly believe that a non-Indian passport is a great advantage, one that many people, including myself, are trying to get in any way possible. I hope you're able to make the right choice. Good luck :)
 
Hi Tamtom,

I am facing a similar situation and have read your post.

I would like to know how you have handled your situation.

My situation, Iam due by November and I want my child to hold an Indian Citizenship. I would like to know what is the right way to do if i deliver here.

if i apply for an Indian birthcertificate in Indian Embassy, US and then take an indian passport, can i avoid the whole confusion later on. will this be fool proof and will this ensure the US authorities from not claiming my child to be a US citizen.

or is the best solution to deliver in India.

Please let me know at the earliest.

Thank you.
 
There are two things to consider:
1. A US citizen under 12 can travel without US passport if he is included into his parent's foreign passport and is traveling with that parent. US birth certificate is also required for entry.
2. As fas as I remember India no longer disallow Indian citizens to have US passport handy when crossing the border with India.
 
n400jan18 said:
No Mohit. When my wife and the child went to the airport in Detroit to take a plane to Mumbai enroute London, the British airways people called up London to see weather my daughter could be issues a boarding pass. We were then told that she will not be allowed to land in London w/o a american passport or at a minimum she would have to have a visa from a common wealth country. I informed them that she had gone to India two times Via Frankfurt without any problem but that did not make any difference. So next day early in the morning I went to the Canadian consulate to get my daughter a Canadian Visa which would be enough for the British. However the canadian consulate told me that there is no way they can issue a travel Visa to a person with a US birth certificate. Hence I was back at square one. I had two options. One cancel the BA ticket and rebook with Lufthansa. Two get a us passport. I decided to do the later and contacted a Passport service and got a passport within 48 hours ( $300 + passport fees). I had to go to Chicago the next day and get a Visa for her and ultimately they left on Friday instead on Monday and lost 4 days of vacation. Now I have OCI for her. Hence she has a US passport with a OCI VISA. Hence if you do not want to take a US passport then do not travel Via London. We did not have any problem when we took Lufthans the last two times.
Click to expand...

My wife and US-born baby successfully travelled to India yesterday on Lufthansa Airlines (via frankfurt). My baby had indian passport and US birth certificate. However, Lufthanasa guys also created the same problem intially. they didn't issue the boarding pass for the baby. they said either a US visa or German visa is needed for the baby. But the strange thing is, if you contact the german consulate, they say it is not an issue and US birth cert is sufficient. I had a proof of this communication and had to convince them a lot before they finally issued the boarding pass for the child. we were also told that the baby won't be allowed to travel next time without US/German visa. So, seems it is becoming difficult to go this way. wondering if Air India would be a better bet to travel in this situation. may be someone who has travelled thru them can update.
 
I said exactly what I intended to. A child born from Indian citizens in the US is both Overseas citizen of India and US citizen. He can freely use both documents - US passport and passport of OCI. However, technically this is not dual citizenship, because OCI is not exactly the same as full citizen of India.
Also, a child born in US is not a full citizen of India anyway. He is just an OCI.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
raevsky said:
I said exactly what I intended to. A child born from Indian citizens in the US is both Overseas citizen of India and US citizen. He can freely use both documents - US passport and passport of OCI. However, technically this is not dual citizenship, because OCI is not exactly the same as full citizen of India.
Also, a child born in US is not a full citizen of India anyway. He is just an OCI.
Click to expand...

Your wording was 2. As fas as I remember India no longer disallow Indian citizens to have US passport handy when crossing the border with India.
 
Hi,

I have a similar situation, Me and my wife are in US thru H1&H4 Visa and our son born in US ( 5 months back).

I am planning to go permanantly to India some time later.

My plan was to get a US passport and OCI card for my son so that we can make him India Citizen after 5 years of getting the OCI card. Now it seems that minor child of Indian parents will not be given OCI.

I think I can get a PIO card but the issue that he will not be considered as Indian Citizen.

Since I already got the US passport for my son I am not eligible for Indian Passport either.

As want my Son to be Indian Citizen what are the possible option now ?

Is there proviciency exists that a person existing in India for so many years can get Indian Citizenship ?

Kindly clarify.

Note: I am planning to visit India with my son during this year end.
 
Consider following scenario:

- child born in US for parents who are both Indian citizens
- parents register the childs birth in Indian consulate and get Indian passport
- subsequently, to avoid travel hassles, parents apply for US passport for the child
- parents notify Indian consulate and return the Indian passport of the child for cancellation.

Why do this:
- by registering the child's birth within 1 year, child becomes eligible for Indian citizenship by descent, in future.
- US passport removes the travel hassle associated with US child travelling with Indian passport and birth certificate

Does the India law penalize the parents for doing this?
Has any one done this before?
Do you see any problems with this approach?

Rgds
Venkat
 
Last edited by a moderator:
milesconnection said:
Consider following scenario:

- child born in US for parents who are both Indian citizens
- parents register the childs birth in Indian consulate and get Indian passport
- subsequently, to avoid travel hassles, parents apply for US passport for the child
- parents notify Indian consulate and return the Indian passport of the child for cancellation.

Why do this:
- by registering the child's birth within 1 year, child becomes eligible for Indian citizenship by descent, in future.
- US passport removes the travel hassle associated with US child travelling with Indian passport and birth certificate

Does the India law penalize the parents for doing this?
Has any one done this before?
Do you see any problems with this approach?

Rgds
Venkat
Click to expand...

My daughter is US born, and my wife and I are Indian citizens. We live in US.

I thought of this strategy and decided that registering birth at the Indian Consulate would be sufficient for documentation proof, if at all required, for any India-citizenship issues that may rise in future. I would not go for applying Indian passport just to cancel it at a later stage. That seems fastidious.

My understanding about the whole issue of "Child born in US for Indian Parents" is this:

In theory, a minor (under 18 years old) can hold both US and Indian citizenship. Both are granted automatically as soon as the birth is registered. For the purpose of US paperwork, the birth is registered with the City/Municipal authorities by the hospital as soon as the child is born--the parents cannot stop this, and therefore the child is automatically US citizen. For the purpose of India paperwork, the birth has to be registered with the Consulate General by the parents--the parents can choose do this, if they want to assert the Indian citizenship rights of the child theoretically. India laws specifically states that for foreign born children, the birth has to be registered with the Consulate to qualify for India citizenship. Without the Consulate registration, the parents would loose a major point of persuasion (perhaps in courts or with authorities) in future.

However, in practice, the minor cannot exercise her citizenship rights in India until she renounces the US citizenship. Under US law, this renunciation is prohibited till the age of 18 (though, there is an option for a minor to renounce her US citizenship by succeeding in the US Counselor interview---pragmatically one can expect that the minor should be at least 14 years old to qualify for the interview.)

Therefore, for all the practical purposes, if a parent wants to go back to India for good, prepare your minds that the child cannot get her India citizenship rights until the age of 18. Potentially you're looking at paying high tuition fees for college education. The fees are equal to, if not greater than, the payment-seat/management-quota fees. The reservation quotas in both State and Central level won't apply to PIO, OCI card holders. So, the education is not cheap in India for these kids, and they cannot take advantage of the affirmative actions (i.e., reservations based on caste/religion).

Lastly, about that Indian-vs.-American sentiment, it's all in mind. As I mentioned in the beginning, at least in the theoretical application of Laws, the child is both Indian and American. Mere papers such as passport will not bring any likeness or dis-likeness toward one country.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
harikrishka said:
I went through most of the discussions, still don't have an answer to my situation. I would really appreciate if someone helps me on this.

My son born in US on Dec 7th 2004. I didn't register in indian consulate, I got his US passport, got a PIO card from Indian consulate and came to India in 2005. Now I want to change my son's citizenship from US to India. Can any one let me know if this is possible and if so, how this can be done?

Thanks,
Hari.
Click to expand...

It's not possible till your child is 18 years old. If you are lucky you can get this done 1 or 2 years earlier than your child's 18th birth day.
 
Clarification needed

First of all, Thanks to Tomtom and all the others who have contributed to this thread and have taken an active part in this thread. I am in the same boat as most of you, however, I could not understand something and would be greatful if someone can clarify the following issue for me.

1. Baby born in US to Indian parents.
2. The baby is a citizen of US by birth (Remember, at birth the baby is already a citizen)
3. The birth is registered at the Indian consulate and an Indian passport is acquired by registration. The declaration signed says that no other country passport was applied for the infant and that is true and no misrepresentation of facts.
4. Since US requires the infant to travel on a US passport, a US passport is applied for after the Indian passport.
5. The Indian law says, "If the holder of an Indian passport acquires nationality of another country, he should surrender his/her Indian passport forthwith to the nearest Indian Mission/Post. Unauthorised possession of Indian passport constitutes an offence punishable under the Indian Passports Act, 1967."
6. At this point however, the baby is not acquiring the nationality of another country, the US nationality was acquired at birth involuntarity and the US passport is merely a travel document and IS NOT voluntarily acquiring the nationality of another country. The nationality was acquired at birth INVOLUNTARILY.

Stating all the above facts, why would the baby lose the Indian citizenship or rather why should the infant renounce Indian citizenship and cancel the passport as it is clearly not a violation of the law or am I missing something here.

Could someone please enlighten me. Greatly appreciate any feedback and clarification on the matter.

Thanks.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Top