India Dual Citizenship Mega Thread (Merged)

[basis]

I guess your plan does make sense.I was only against it because someone told me that CGINY told them they cannot convert a PIO to OCI for a couple of years.For minors PIO=OCI since they dont have to register and all but for adults that can be a sticking point.Basically I am not sure how the embassies would react to a conversion for a PIO card issued after the scheme was launched.So i would personally prefer to err on the side of caution.

I'm all for advanced planning-plan a little bit in advance and apply for the OCI directly.If some emergency does pop up while the application is under process a short term visa (1 or 2 month) can be picked up.

But in terms of economics you have made a wise choice

Just sharing couple of experiences on this.

My cousine got PIO card in Jan 2006 ( after the OCI scheme started) and in Feb applied for OCI. No issues - they dont even blink their eye for this. I know a person close friend of mine - she got her PIO card as a matter of safety (needed to R2I soon) and applied for OCI next day. Got the OCI too within 6 weeks. She is in India now enjoying registrtion free time.

 

[basis]

A new term for OCI "Near Citizenship"

Or could it be quasi-citizenship or neo-citizenship or no-citizenship

 

[gotia]

PIO1,
Please refer to the link i had posted previously (indialiason).For considering resident status they have also factored in intent.Hence a PIO starting a business is considered a resident even if he hasnt completed the quota of days in India while a PIO who is in India for medical treatment and intends to go back is considered a NRI even if his stay extends the quota.

you are right.
court has rouled about factor intend to stay.
i have a article printeed from times of india rules by court.
my scaner in not in order
but i have date and time of article.

 

[basis]

Website is a good idea.But for now let's just stick to this forum
I got a PM from the moderator.The thread is open again.

mangal and PIO - in your new thread can we add a post which gives links to various information available. During past months we have shared so many links on this thread which are useful for NRIs, PIOs, OCIs etc. e.g I am giving below a list to start with....

http://www.immigrationboards.com/viewtopic.php?t=4779&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=0
http://boards.immigrationportal.com/showthread.php?t=140033&page=99&pp=15
http://groups.msn.com/r2iclub/general.msnw
http://groups.msn.com/r2iclub/gener...essage=82918&LastModified=4675560131397030432
http://groups.msn.com/R2INRIFinanceAndInvestments


Some other useful links:
http://www.manupatra.com/ASP/newsletter 119.asp
http://www.hcilondon.net/visa/visa-formalities.html
http://www.immigrationindia.nic.in/FAQ_Registration.htm
http://india.gov.in/overseas/nri.php
http://www.indialiaison.com/pio.htm
http://www.banknetindia.com/books/handbook.htm
http://www.khaleejtimes.com/rbi/page3.htm
http://www.immigrationindia.nic.in/FAQs.htm
http://www.femaonline.com/prohibited_investments.htm
http://www.mha.nic.in
http://hcilondon.net/Overseas-Indian-Citizenship/indexnew.html
http://www.ind.homeoffice.gov.uk/in...licy_instructions/nis/chapter_14/annex_h.html
http://www.fco.gov.uk/Files/kfile/NOTE VERBALE.pdf
http://www.publications.parliament....xt/51019w02.htm
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Indian_nationality_law

What can NRIs / PIOs and now OCIs do -

http://iic.nic.in
http://iic.nic.in/piocard.htm

Citizenship related provisions

http://www.indialawinfo.com/bareacts/citi.html

A useful section on GOI website for Non Resident Indians (NRIs) and Persons of Indian Origin (PIOs). The best thing abt this one is that it puts all relevant links at one source.

http://india.gov.in/overseas/nri.php

Consular and other issues of PIOs -

http://indiandiaspora.nic.in/diasporapdf/chapter27.pdf

What are the rights of PIO card holders ? Review of PIO card scheme -
http://indiandiaspora.nic.in/diasporapdf/chapter24.pdf

Original proposal for Dual Citizenship
http://indiandiaspora.nic.in/diasporapdf/chapter36.pdf
http://www.samachar.com/features/210605-middle.html
http://indiandiaspora.nic.in/diasporapdf/chapter10.pdf
http://indiandiaspora.nic.in

Additionally info for registration for PIO holders can be given -

Question 1: Whether every foreigner is required to be registered?

Answer: No. Foreigners visiting India on any short-term visa i.e. valid upto 180 days or less are not required to register. Children below 16 years of age visiting India on any type of visa of any duration are also not required to register.

The following two categories of foreigners are required to register: -

(i) Foreigners entering India on a Student, Employment, Research or Missionary visa, which is valid for more than 180 days, are required to register with the FRRO/FRO/CHIO within 14 days of their arrival in India.

(ii) Foreigners visiting India on any other category of long-term visa which is valid for more than 180 days, are required to register only if they intend to stay in India for more than 180 days continuously during a particular visit. This registration can be done anytime within 180 days of arrival in India.

Question 2: Where can a foreigner register himself?

Answer: A foreigner is required to get himself registered with the FRRO/CHIO (in case of Delhi, Mumbai, Kolkata, Amritsar and Chennai) or the FRO (i.e. SP District) depending on the place where the foreigner intends to stay.


Question 3: Is a foreigner required to register himself/herself on each visit?

Answer: No, a foreigner is not required to register himself on each visit as long as he is visiting on the same visa on which he was first registered. The registree will be required to report to FRRO/FRO/CHIO if he re-enters India on a fresh visa. If the registree obtains a new passport during the validity of his registration and visa, he should get the visa transferred on to his new passport from FRRO/FRO/CHIO for which a service charge of Rs.235/- is levied.

Registration is required to be done only once during the validity of a visa irrespective of the number of times the foreigner leaves/re-enters India on a multi entry facility.

Following categories of foreigners are exempted from registration:
1. US Nationals holding ten-year Tourist/Business visas provided their continuous stay during each visit does not exceed 6 months.

2. Foreigners of Indian origin holding 5 year multiple entry X visa with an endorsement that "stay should not exceed 6 months during each visit."

3. Foreigners holding five-year Tourist visas, who are actively engaged in tourist/travel trade, desirous of visiting India frequently over extended periods for promotion of tourism etc., provided that their visa contains an endorsement that "continuous stay should not exceed 6 months".

4. Foreigners below the age of 16 years.

 

[basis]

you are right.
court has rouled about factor intend to stay.
i have a article printeed from times of india rules by court.
my scaner in not in order
but i have date and time of article.

Can you please post the date n time. TOI has archive facility online ...we can go to issues in the past.

 

[SDQmer]

I applied at CGI SF over a month ago. So far no mail or email from them. Plugging in the reference # at the mha oci site says "File yet to register in the concern mission".

How much longer after sending in the application do people usually get the file number ? Do they notify you of the file number by mail or email ?

I sent my application (for the whole family) almost 8 working weeks ago. Still no info and OCI site says "File yet to register in the concern mission".

Please let me know if anything changes on your side.

 

[rajudm]

Messy CGINY (OCI pickup is treated as any other service)

I had been to CGINY today to pickup the OCI card and the U stickers. There is no OCI representative sitting at desk. One has to stand in the general information line (window 8). The lady will take your name and informs to wait for some time. Another person (OCI expert) comes down and calls out the names.

After giving the letters and passport, the rep told me to come back at 12:30 to pick up the passport. I asked for $17 refund which I had paid for postage while applying. She told that all the money collected is non-refundable. Then I insisted that they should mention in the instruction that if passport and stickers are picked up in-person there is no need to send postage money.

I told them to do the express mail and left the building (didn't want to wait in the congested lounge for 2 to 3 hours.), atleast get some use out of the postage money.

IT IS BETTER TO SEND THE PASSPORT BY EXPRESS MAIL for getting the OCI card and U sticker.

 

[jenimmi]

Was there at CGINY today.. Messy floors too

I decided to get the Indian PPs cancelled first. Since the weather was really nice, I walked to CGINY. It was a long.. long.. walk both ways. Even though the website says applications/inquiries between 9:15 to 12:15, they stop issuing tokens around 12 noon (I learnt this today). I was there at 12:05 and the guard wouldn't let me in. I had to argue with him about what the website says and the fact that I just went there for cancellation, then he asked me go to Window 8 - the "Info window". After a long wait there, the lady took the PPs from me and to my surprise asked me to pick up the cancelled PPs in a half hour. When I asked her if she needed to see the natz certificate, she said "No.. We don't need all that here". I was surprised that they just take things at face value.

But after 10 mins, she came back and said "Come back tomorrow". I asked her why she had changed her mind. She then kept saying some excuses - totally didn't make any sense. I then gave her the letters that we wrote - similar to the one PIO1 has in the sticky thread and showed her the Natz certificates. She took the letters and the PPs once again and asked me to wait another half hour. Finally I got the cancelled PPs back.

She must have asked at least 3 or 4 times - "Why do you want it cancelled if you are not applying for any visa?" - I told her that's what it says on the PP. She kept saying it is not necessary to cancel PPs - I was amazed! but I insisted that since I had gone there, I want them cancelled and returned to me the same day. A gentleman standing next to me on the line said he already got his OCI (in ONLY 2 months ) and his Indian PP is still not cancelled. He showed it to me .

The whole place is a total mess. I've been there every few years and absolutely no change at all. Not enough chairs.. very small halls. There was some doggy or some other p**p all over the floor in the hall on the right and it was not even cleaned. I was just glad to be out of there, without throwing up.

 

[jenimmi]

Thanks Mangal for the info on PIO card.

Should the US PP be valid for a certain period of time when applying for a PIO card? i.e. If the US PP is expiring in Nov and if the trip to India is around June/July, can we apply for PIO card now? I know that's an extra work to get the PIO card updated with new US PP info after we renew the PP in Nov. But other than that, is there any other problem?

 

[PIO1]

Mangal - thanks for the update - not sure though about the validity of the information from the website ... as according to RBI PIOs/NRIs can sell,gift,inherit commercial/residential property to other PIOs/NRIs... might be worth checking.

When I was looking this stuff up, I found that most sites had wrong or misleading info (including sify) and only the RBI was accurate.

 

[PIO1]

mangal and PIO - in your new thread can we add a post which gives links to various information available. During past months we have shared so many links on this thread which are useful for NRIs, PIOs, OCIs etc. e.g I am giving below a list to start with.....

basis, looks good - please put this stuff up yourself, maybe as two + posts (a) useful links and (b) registration.

Also re registration, there were these rules for hotel registration that we could not find ... any ideas where these would be/what the situation is with NRIs/PIOs?

 

[PIO1]

Thanks Mangal for the info on PIO card.

Should the US PP be valid for a certain period of time when applying for a PIO card? i.e. If the US PP is expiring in Nov and if the trip to India is around June/July, can we apply for PIO card now? I know that's an extra work to get the PIO card updated with new US PP info after we renew the PP in Nov. But other than that, is there any other problem?

This is what the embassy says re visas (not sure about PIO)

"Passport, it should have a minimum validity of six months on the date of application with at least two blank pages. "

http://www.indianembassy.org/consular/visa_guide.htm

 

[mangal969]

Mangal - thanks for the update - not sure though about the validity of the information from the website ... as according to RBI PIOs/NRIs can sell,gift,inherit commercial/residential property to other PIOs/NRIs... might be worth checking.

When I was looking this stuff up, I found that most sites had wrong or misleading info (including sify) and only the RBI was accurate.

This site has been recommended by the MOIA on their website.

Jennimi,
If you do not plan to renew the passports before travelling to India go ahead and use this passport in the PIO application

 

[atlantathrasher]

thanks for all the info

a big thanks to all the OCI gurus, Mangal, PIO1 etc. I am a silent reader on this forum. I live in Australia and planning to apply for OCI soon. Does anybody have experience with the Sydney indian consulate??

 

[indianindian]

Recived US passport with Visa stamped for life.

Hi all,

I just recived the US passport of my daughter with visa stamped for life and a certificate book which is the OCI certificate.I also got the cancelled PIO card back I had applied for her OCI in Jan 2006.

 

[gotia]

Can you please post the date n time. TOI has archive facility online ...we can go to issues in the past.

Basis
times of india
13th august 2000
article name NRI status does not change with stay at home supreme court

i have print out

 

[jenimmi]

Thanks Mangal, PIO1.

This one seems to be a sticky situation.
"RBI PIOs/NRIs can sell,gift,inherit commercial/residential property to other PIOs/NRIs". - CAN they or NOT?

Sooner or later, when my parents / in-laws become PR, does it mean inheriting Real estate property will be an issue for us? I believe this question was asked before and RBI rules on this are not crystal clear. In one of it's points, it says something generalizing that PIOs can inherit real estate, but in another place it says they can't if it's inherited from NRI. I thought it was quite ambiguous.

I wasn't concerned about this before, but I'm hoping to settle things during our India trip and hence the validity of this stmt becomes crucial at this point.
Is there some way to find out, before I leave for the trip? Or is the only option to consult an expert (BTW, what kind of expert should I consult with) when I'm in India? That would be such a bore
Thanks!

 

[mangal969]

As long as you're parents remain citizens of india, you're OK.They fall under the NRI category and can buy/sell/gift residential/commercial property.Problem would come if you were to sell the property in the future.If you want to sell it to another NRI/PIO then you need RBI clearance.If you sell it to a COI then you dont need permission.
There arent any total "cannot do's" for PIO's (incl OCI's) except where the land is agricultural.My list in the other thread only emulates the situations where RBI permission is not required.(PIO1-I just figured this out).In other situations you have to get RBI approval.

 

[ginnu]

Thanks Mangal, PIO1.

This one seems to be a sticky situation.
"RBI PIOs/NRIs can sell,gift,inherit commercial/residential property to other PIOs/NRIs". - CAN they or NOT?

Sooner or later, when my parents / in-laws become PR, does it mean inheriting Real estate property will be an issue for us? I believe this question was asked before and RBI rules on this are not crystal clear. In one of it's points, it says something generalizing that PIOs can inherit real estate, but in another place it says they can't if it's inherited from NRI. I thought it was quite ambiguous.

I wasn't concerned about this before, but I'm hoping to settle things during our India trip and hence the validity of this stmt becomes crucial at this point.
Is there some way to find out, before I leave for the trip? Or is the only option to consult an expert (BTW, what kind of expert should I consult with) when I'm in India? That would be such a bore
Thanks!

http://dipp.nic.in/nri_ready_recokner/Ready Reckoner For NRI_Final_2005.pdf

 

[mangal969]

Jenimmi's CGINY experience shows that cancelling the Indian PP is not really taken seriously by the embassies.But for us it is safer to be on the right side of the law.

Indianindian-Congrats !

Rajudm- I believe i had mentioned earlier that CGINY does not give refund for return mail if you go pick it up in person

atlantathrasher-There was a Mangalpandey who applied and received his OCI card from Sydney.Please hunt through this thread to learn about his experiences.