India Dual Citizenship Mega Thread (Merged)
- Thread starter columbiaman
- Start date
SDQmer said:Hi,
Anybody got approvals/file number assigned recently from CGISF. We applied sometime in Feb2006 and still mha website is giving file number not assigned in concerend mission..
I applied in mid march. No file number yet. Ditto for couple of coworkers. Moreover if you see the list of people approved at CGIsf, the list has shrunk from ~1500 to around ~800. Did they unapprove these remaining people ?
CGI SF OCI Timeline
Per the Ministry of Home Affairs (http://www.mha.nic.in/oci-brochure.pdf)
--
"After preliminary scrutiny, if there is no adverse information available
against the applicant, the Indian Mission/Post shall register a person as an
OCI within 30 days of application and the case shall be referred to MHA for
post verification of the antecedents of the applicant.
If during the post verification, any adverse information comes to the knowledge of the MHA, the registration as an OCI already granted by the Indian Mission/Post shall be cancelled by an order under section 7 D of the Citizenship Act, 1955.
After preliminary scrutiny, if there is any adverse information against
the applicant, prior approval of the MHA shall be required before grant of
registration. The MHA may approve or reject the grant of registration
within 120 days from the date of the receipt of the application. If the grant of
registration as an OCI is approved by the MHA, the Indian Mission/Post
shall register the person as an OCI."
--
So, if 30 days have elapsed, the Consulate/Mission is obliged to tell the applicant(s) whether they have been registered or not. Of course, this assumes that received applications are opened in a timely manner.
How about "OCI Timeline Tracker" threads for all of the consulates/missions ?
At least this would help identify the laggards, as well as set expectations for applicants who, for example, may have travel plans and now may need alternatives.
dad22 said:
Per the Ministry of Home Affairs (http://www.mha.nic.in/oci-brochure.pdf)
--
"After preliminary scrutiny, if there is no adverse information available
against the applicant, the Indian Mission/Post shall register a person as an
OCI within 30 days of application and the case shall be referred to MHA for
post verification of the antecedents of the applicant.
If during the post verification, any adverse information comes to the knowledge of the MHA, the registration as an OCI already granted by the Indian Mission/Post shall be cancelled by an order under section 7 D of the Citizenship Act, 1955.
After preliminary scrutiny, if there is any adverse information against
the applicant, prior approval of the MHA shall be required before grant of
registration. The MHA may approve or reject the grant of registration
within 120 days from the date of the receipt of the application. If the grant of
registration as an OCI is approved by the MHA, the Indian Mission/Post
shall register the person as an OCI."
--
So, if 30 days have elapsed, the Consulate/Mission is obliged to tell the applicant(s) whether they have been registered or not. Of course, this assumes that received applications are opened in a timely manner.
How about "OCI Timeline Tracker" threads for all of the consulates/missions ?
At least this would help identify the laggards, as well as set expectations for applicants who, for example, may have travel plans and now may need alternatives.
FrustratedCGINY said:
You should call MS Kaniyal and tell him about this whole incident.Besides exposing what inefficient people run the embassies you might get a free duplicate issued to you in India.You should also write a letter (Hard copy) to the ambassador and CG ASAP.Dont spare any detail in your letter.And mail it in such a way that you have proof of mailing.
Few Questions
Hi Mangal
I hope you would have got your OCI by now COngrats!!!
Have few questions if you could answer that will be great.
1) Person holding Indian passport dont have to apply for a visa to visit Nepal -- Now I am an OCI if i want to visit Nepal do i need to apply for a NEP visa or do i qualify for a visa free entry?----(PS-NOt planning to visit nepal at the moment lol)
2) If i take 2 Million INR to INdia and deposite in a bank over there will i have problems in INdia from IT officials. DO i need to follow any procedures---DO i need to pay tax again on that 2 mil as i have already paid it over here.
Hi Mangal
I hope you would have got your OCI by now COngrats!!!
Have few questions if you could answer that will be great.
1) Person holding Indian passport dont have to apply for a visa to visit Nepal -- Now I am an OCI if i want to visit Nepal do i need to apply for a NEP visa or do i qualify for a visa free entry?----(PS-NOt planning to visit nepal at the moment lol)
2) If i take 2 Million INR to INdia and deposite in a bank over there will i have problems in INdia from IT officials. DO i need to follow any procedures---DO i need to pay tax again on that 2 mil as i have already paid it over here.
Indian4 said:
1) Nepal does not recognise OCI at all - treat it as if it is not there. Actually Nepal will be better off joining the union of India ... why don't they do this? Bizare.
2) You can't carry large amounts of cash across the border - don't think you were going to do this. This applies to US govt as much as any other. Open an NRE account or FCNR account, and deposit here (e.g. Citibank), withdraw it in India. If the source of funds was o/s India has no problems with you bringing it here, provided you deposit it o/s.
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Indian4 said:
Indian4 - Go to India and open an NRE account and write a check to deposit how much ever you want. The money you deposit is not taxable, as you have already paid taxes in the country of your citizenship. However the interest you earn may be taxable. If you do not want to convert the currency into INR right away you can open an FCNR account in the foreign currency, and convert it to INR as needed. Good luck.
P.S: You can negotiate your currency conversion rate (with the Indian bank) to INR as you are planning to deposit 2 Million INR equivalent amount.
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Indian4 said:
Unfortunately OCI is not dual citizenship so as far as Nepal is concerned you are still a US citizen and need a visa.But it's 50$ for a multiple entry 1 year visa and 30$ for a single entry
You just CANNOT take $2 mil out of the US or into India with your luggage !You have to open an NRE/NRO account here deposit the money and withdraw it there.You will not have to pay any tax on the 2 mil but will have to pay tax on the interest earned.
mangal969 said:Unfortunately OCI is not dual citizenship so as far as Nepal is concerned you are still a US citizen and need a visa.But it's 50$ for a multiple entry 1 year visa and 30$ for a single entry
Agree with Mangal. You wud need visa for Nepal and also special permissions to visit PAP / RAP areas in India as well. You are no longer an Indian citizen - now you know its value
mangal969 said:
There is nothing that stops one to bring as much cash - either currency notes, TCs, cheques etc. The only restriction is if it is USD 1000 or more then one has to declare. by the way not that it makes difference in the reply but OP is referring to INR 2 mil and not USD 2 mil. So long one has valid visa the NRI accounts can be opened in India as well. This is the legal view.
From convenience, safety, security point it is much better to make the bank transfer while you are in the US. If you use facilities like money to India or remit 2 India the money will reach India in 4-5 working days free of cost - they will open FCNR / NRE or other accounts for you as well. They will also credit it to someone's account if you want to.
More details on currency import legal rules- There are no curbs on the amount of foreign currency or travellers' cheques a tourist may bring provided he makes a declaration in the Currency Declaration Form on arrival. This will enable him to exchange currency brought in and take unspent currency out of India departure. Cash, banknotes and travellers' cheques up to US$1,000 or equivalent, need not be declared at the time of entry.
Any money in the form of travellers' cheques, drafts, bills, cheques, etc. in convertible currencies, which tourists wish to convert into India currency, should be exchanged only through authorised money changers and banks who will issue an encashment certificate require at the time of re-conversion of any unspent money into foreign currency. Exchanging foreign exchange other than through banks or authorised money changers is an offence.
Visitors are required to make an oral baggage declaration of baggage and foreign currency in their possession. They are also required to obtain the Currency Declaration Form from the Customs. They should fill in the Disembarkation Card given to them by the airline during the flight.
http://www.india-travel-guide.de/indiacustoms.html
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basis said:Agree with Mangal. You wud need visa for Nepal and also special permissions to visit PAP / RAP areas in India as well. You are no longer an Indian citizen - now you know its value
There is nothing that stops one to bring as much cash - either currency notes, TCs, cheques etc. The only restriction is if it is USD 1000 or more then one has to declare. by the way not that it makes difference in the reply but OP is referring to INR 2 mil and not USD 2 mil. So long one has valid visa the NRI accounts can be opened in India as well. This is the legal view.
From convenience, safety, security point it is much better to make the bank transfer while you are in the US. If you use facilities like money to India or remit 2 India the money will reach India in 4-5 working days free of cost - they will open FCNR / NRE or other accounts for you as well. They will also credit it to someone's account if you want to.
More details on currency import legal rules- There are no curbs on the amount of foreign currency or travellers' cheques a tourist may bring provided ...
Basis, no probs with foreign currency, what about INR?
jenimmi said:I decided to get the Indian PPs cancelled first. Since the weather was really nice, I walked to CGINY. It was a long.. long.. walk both ways. Even though the website says applications/inquiries between 9:15 to 12:15, they stop issuing tokens around 12 noon (I learnt this today). I was there at 12:05 and the guard wouldn't let me in. I had to argue with him about what the website says and the fact that I just went there for cancellation, then he asked me go to Window 8 - the "Info window". After a long wait there, the lady took the PPs from me and to my surprise asked me to pick up the cancelled PPs in a half hour. When I asked her if she needed to see the natz certificate, she said "No.. We don't need all that here". I was surprised that they just take things at face value.
But after 10 mins, she came back and said "Come back tomorrow". I asked her why she had changed her mind. She then kept saying some excuses - totally didn't make any sense. I then gave her the letters that we wrote - similar to the one PIO1 has in the sticky thread and showed her the Natz certificates. She took the letters and the PPs once again and asked me to wait another half hour. Finally I got the cancelled PPs back.
She must have asked at least 3 or 4 times - "Why do you want it cancelled if you are not applying for any visa?" - I told her that's what it says on the PP. She kept saying it is not necessary to cancel PPs - I was amazed! but I insisted that since I had gone there, I want them cancelled and returned to me the same day. A gentleman standing next to me on the line said he already got his OCI (in ONLY 2 months
The whole place is a total mess. I've been there every few years and absolutely no change at all. Not enough chairs.. very small halls. There was some doggy or some other p**p all over the floor in the hall on the right and it was not even cleaned. I was just glad to be out of there, without throwing up.
jenimmi ... thanks for the feedback ... no one has been shot for not having their PP cancelled. (You can be in trouble for using it though!). Best practice, and the regulatory requirements are to do it ASAP, but application for a visa/OCI is probably the most convenient time, as you only have to litterally go through s**t once
When I applied I had a PP that expired 20+ years ago. My wife's was still valid. They insisted on cancelling hers and did not ask to cancel mine.
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jenimmi said:Thanks Mangal, PIO1.
This one seems to be a sticky situation.
"RBI PIOs/NRIs can sell,gift,inherit commercial/residential property to other PIOs/NRIs". - CAN they or NOT?
Sooner or later, when my parents / in-laws become PR, does it mean inheriting Real estate property will be an issue for us? I believe this question was asked before and RBI rules on this are not crystal clear. In one of it's points, it says something generalizing that PIOs can inherit real estate, but in another place it says they can't if it's inherited from NRI. I thought it was quite ambiguous.
I wasn't concerned about this before, but I'm hoping to settle things during our India trip and hence the validity of this stmt becomes crucial at this point.
Is there some way to find out, before I leave for the trip? Or is the only option to consult an expert (BTW, what kind of expert should I consult with) when I'm in India? That would be such a bore
Thanks!
From a previous post [in response to your question!]#1008, according to the RBI A person of Indian origin can ...
note that this includes agricultural, commercial and residential property!
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PIO1 said:
Good Question PIO1. I had always thought about foreign currency to be brought to India (in the given question USD worth INR 2 mil). Didn't think one would convert USD to INR outside India and bring them to India.
a) one would always get better rate in India while converting to INR than anywhere else normally (if you are using normal legitimate channels) at a point of time
b) if converted to INR one will have to carry too many currency notes.
However, to answer your questions about INR and also to give updated info for foreign currency (USD 1000 is no more limit for declaration for latest please see second question below ) -
Can travellers carry Indian rupees while going out of India and entering India?
Yes. The amount permitted is Rs 5000 while travelling to or from countries other than Nepal and Bhutan. There is no limit for these two countries.
How much foreign currency can one carry while entering India?
There is no limit on the amount of foreign currency that can be brought into India. But if the amount of foreign currency notes exceeds USD 5000 and the amount of currency notes plus travelers cheques exceed USD 10,000, then the person is expected to declare the amount at the customs entry point and obtain currency declaration form.
http://www.statebankofindia.com/viewsection.jsp?lang=0&id=0,12,177,199,229,238
Mangal, in keeping with your posts on OCI it is important that we get accurate independent information to newcomers - I think the MOIA has botched it again with a link to indialiason.mangal969 said:This site has been recommended by the MOIA on their website.
...
The RBI is the authority on acquisition and transfer of property. MOIA has no jurisdiction in this area, someone from their office has found a link, but this is rubbish. It is not even controlled by the govt (its an accountant!). It is not the first time the MOIA, MHA etc has come up with rubbish - and we both know having waited for dual citizenship all these years
The RBI has a Control (FEMA Control 21) which, with amendments ,is unquestionably the authority on these matters. It states:
That article from http://www.indialiaison.com/inmovable.htm says that "A person of indian origin resident outside india" may receive a gift of Agricultural property from a resident. Where did this come from? it is total nonsense. And they have left out inheritance. If the RBI makes the regulations and enforces the policy, given the controls are so easy to read (http://www.rbi.org.in/scripts/NotificationUser.aspx?Id=175&Mode=0) I think it is best to refer people to the RBI and not these dodgy people. Just hope no one goes there for advice.
The indialiaison site then states "Investment in agricultural property, plantation and farmhouse is prohibited for all classes of persons resident outside India, be it NRIs/OCBs/ foreign citizens or other foreign entities." [So if a simple panjabi farmer goes to toronto for six months to be with his grandson, he automatically loses his farm??? Which law says this? Poor farmers of India will be up in arms! Nepal is looking like a safe haven!] Don't worry - no revolution is going to happen. This article is complete and total rubbish. All classes? Who wrote this? They are contradicting themselves! PLEASE DO NOT PAY ATTENTION TO THIS SITE! You can find yourself breaking the law, or unecessarily losing rights.
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Thanks Basis. So you can only bring INR 5000 into India. [There was a counterfeit currency scam from Indonesia to India That Indian Customs is still wary about.]basis said:
Most countries have limits on the amount of cash you can carry through their airports. In US ...
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PIO1 said:
PIO1 - Personally being a student of FERA / FEMA and its history I dont see any reason why there should be one treatment for INR and one for foreign currency while entering India.
I think it is more for residents of India who go outside should not take too much of INR with them (since it is uncontrollable where as foreign currency can be legitimately bought only from authorised dealers so it is controllable and traceable.
But being an Indian law they have kept the leg closed to import INRs for non-residents / foreigners as well. One logic would be why would non-residents / foreigners bring INR to India from outside India (as even my initial reaction was and could not think someone converting to INR outside India and bringing to India). Where as someone originating their short term trip from India can easily carry INR and bring it back - hence the prohibiting condition.
Sooner we get full convertibility better it would be....
And in reality I checked US, UK and most EU and developed countries on this - and most dont have restrictions on import / export of currencies. Although many have requirement to declare it in some or the other form above some limits. And most dont differintiate between local and foreign currencies when it comes to import / export from the country.
Here is a useful link for you
http://www.exchange-currency.co.uk/currency.htm