How long to change job after GC

[lisansw]

My understand is, at the time of I-140 adjustment the posistion must exist. Once I-140 approved and I-485 pending over 180 days. There is nothing can hold you. AC21 is only useful if you get RFE on your I-485, right? As far as I see there is no requirement for the posistion existance or other requirement at the time of adjust I-485.

In extreme case
I-140 Approved
I-485 pending over 180 days, applicant was laid off on 181 day
EAD apporved
One can use EAD work for anybody (of course lawful) and including even stay home wait his/her I-485 approval. Your status is perfect legul. Only if RFE comes then one needs a sponsor to answer RFE, so called AC21. I would say once your I-140 done you are almost free. I-485 done, you are totally free.

 

[dev28]

Hi guys:
This thread is an interesting read! Liked Unitednations summary posted earlier.

 

[dsfgh100]

Hi guys:
This thread is an interesting read! Liked Unitednations summary posted earlier.

The beauty of this thread is that you can see the discusson coming to a conclusion. Every one seems to be agreeing to the original arguement I was siding, which said GC holders could change employers immediately after getting GC. With all the good reasons provided by UN, lisansw and july this discussion is concluded and the people who were suggesting that GC holders wait until 6 months after GC to quit employer have gone home.

Live happy.


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Spirit of USA Personal Responsibility, Opportunity, Equality.

 

[dsfgh100]

blah.

JoeF my lost friend,

Who ever said that attorneys are never wrong? If you ask for legal advice from 4 different attorneys, you will likely get 4 different opinions.

On the changing employer issue, no one even disputes that the "Intention" to work for that employer should be there. Having said that... Intention is subjective. It has been explained by some very trust worthy members of this board that the GC process is 100% responsibility of employer and the employee merely agrees to take up the job offer. Like any other job offer, the employee would change her plans after getting the GC. AC21 gives additional options to switch employers and jobs, but it does not prevent the already afforded legal status that a GC holder could decide to change employer or not work any where after getting GC. Thousands of GC holders quit their employer and declare their independence the day after getting GC. This is a free country, and the law will never force GC-holders to stay with the employer for 6 months.

I have a lot of respect for Murthy (as I do for Rajiv).. but on this one, the verdict is in: Get GC, Change employer, live happy.



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Spirit of USA Personal Responsibility, Opportunity, Equality.

 

[coolman]

question on intent

Hi,

My i140 was approved yesterday. My i140/i485 was filed concurrently 18 months ago. There have been many layoffs in my company and I cannot say how long will I last in my current job. Due to this I had started looking for jobs and had accepted a position a month back. My H1 was also filed and it was approved a few days ago. My current intent is to switch employers in 2-3 weeks by using AC21. I know I can clearly use AC21 as long as my 485 remains pending. However, what happens if my 485 gets approved in next 2-3 days. Can I still use AC21? I intend to stay in my new job permanently. Does one actually have to be working in his/her new job when 485 gets approved or you go for stamping or when you actually get the plastic card to invoke AC21? A lot of people on this board have said that you don't have to notify INS about change in employment till you get RFE. So when does INS know that you are invoking AC21

Comments?

 

[dsfgh100]

Hi,

My i140 was approved yesterday. My i140/i485 was filed concurrently 18 months ago. There have been many layoffs in my company and I cannot say how long will I last in my current job. Due to this I had started looking for jobs and had accepted a position a month back. My H1 was also filed and it was approved a few days ago. My current intent is to switch employers in 2-3 weeks by using AC21. I know I can clearly use AC21 as long as my 485 remains pending. However, what happens if my 485 gets approved in next 2-3 days. Can I still use AC21? I intend to stay in my new job permanently. Does one actually have to be working in his/her new job when 485 gets approved or you go for stamping or when you actually get the plastic card to invoke AC21? A lot of people on this board have said that you don't have to notify INS about change in employment till you get RFE. So when does INS know that you are invoking AC21

Comments?

coolman. Make sure your employer will not withdraw their I-140 during the 180 day period. If possible hang in there until you meet the time criteria to invoke AC21. From the time frame you provided, it does seem you have had the I-485 unadjudicated for 180 days. You should have no problem with the job change.

If you have not already done so.. please post this message in the I-485 channel of this board.

JoeF, read coolman's question carefully before answering. You are scaring him with undue information.

Live happy.



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Spirit of USA Personal Responsibility, Opportunity, Equality.

 

[July02EB12]

check where?

Here is a link to a respected lawyer's website, confirming my position:
http://www.murthy.com/485faq.html#13

In particular:
"Although AC21 allows the changing of employers if the I-485 is not adjudicated within 180 days, there is no change in the law with respect to the intention of the employer to offer and the employee to undertake "permanent," full-time work with the sponsoring employer for the job advertised. Keep in mind that a green card job offer is legally considered a future job offer. Therefore, the employee must have a good-faith intention to work for the employer after the green card is approved, and the employer must have a good-faith intention to employ the employee after the green card is approved. Even if a person had worked for the sponsoring employer for several years while pursuing the green card process, that would not count as future intent. Generally, 6 months to 1 year after obtaining the green card is a safe time period to change employment. Failure to stay at the sponsoring employer may result in problems at the naturalization stage!" (emphasis added.)

I have been right all along in this discussion.
This concludes this discussion.

JoeF, Thanks for this information.

The last sentence made by whoever writes at that site (murthy.com) puzzled me. At what stage through the naturalization process do they actually have the opportunity to audit your employment records post Green Card approval (obviously, USCIS is ONLY notified of ADDRESS changes, if at all, and not employment changes)? From reading what I could in the USCIS publications, it appears that all they are interested in knowing is whether you were arrested for anything etc. etc. (i.e. you won't be a "trouble maker")

I guess the question might arise as the possibility of one having lied of ones intent during the 140/485 stages during the citizenship "interview".....but then, didn't many beneficiaries (predominantly the EB1s and EB2s), by the same logic, supposedly lie when they applied for H1's or F1's and hence are anyway MORE culpable by the same standards to start with? (they do have a signature on a piece of paper at some consulate stating that the F1/H1 based beneficiary doesn't intend to stay permanently in the USA, while all they have "against" a fresh permanent resident is an intention of long term future employment with a particular employer, if at all, who as part of his rights as a permanent resident, has the right to change a job, if he so sees fit)........

 

[dsfgh100]

The last sentence made by whoever writes at that site (murthy.com) puzzled me. At what stage through the naturalization process do they actually have the opportunity to audit your employment records post Green Card approval (obviously, USCIS is ONLY notified of ADDRESS changes, if at all, and not employment changes)? From reading what I could in the USCIS publications, it appears that all they are interested in knowing is whether you were arrested for anything etc. etc. (i.e. you won't be a "trouble maker")

The N-400 form does ask for employment history. Part 6, Section C. They ask for past 5 years employment history. In most cases, the employer at time of GC issue is available to the interviewing officer.



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Spirit of USA Personal Responsibility, Opportunity, Equality.

 

[dsfgh100]

The N-400 form does ask for employment history. Part 6, Section C. They ask for past 5 years employment history. In most cases, the employer at time of GC issue is available to the interviewing officer.



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Spirit of USA Personal Responsibility, Opportunity, Equality.

Having said that... It has no effect on the citizenship process as to who your employer was when obtaining GC and whether or not you worked for the same employer after GC.



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Spirit of USA Personal Responsibility, Opportunity, Equality.

 

[dsfgh100]

You have to provide your employment history for the last 5 years on the N-400.

Thanks for repeating the same thing I said in my post above. Immitation is the best for of flattery. I am flattered that JoeF has been copying my posts all along.

You also have to provide copies of your tax returns.

Absolutely wrong. It is not essential to provide tax returns with N-400. JoeF misleading the board again. Thats why we call JoeF the Blabbering Joker of this board.


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Spirit of USA Personal Responsibility, Opportunity, Equality.

 

[dsfgh100]

The tax returns are required if you are obtaining citizenship through marriage, ie., three years instead of the five.

I still disagree. Show me where in N-400 they ask for tax returns. When you use the word "required", it makes it seem like it is mandatory. It is not mandatory. Every one I know who received citizenship in recent years (that list is looong) has not provided tax returns, and has not been asked to show tax returns during interview.

One of the reasons citizenship takes a while to obtain is that the interviewing officer has to wait from the service center to provide your file. This file will bascially include your whole history (work visas, 140's, 485's). They will know how you obtained your greencard (ie., marriage, work, asylum, etc.), in fact there are codes on your greencard which correspond to which category you obtained the greencard.

You are quoting what might likely be the process. But this has nothing to say about the central issue of whether or not to supply tax returns or change jobs soon after GC.

How would uscis know if you did use ac21; from the five years of work history the earliest employer you would list would have a start date prior to obtaining greencard.

So? They know your employer, and you are not trying to hide that information from them. What is the big deal? This has no impact on the central issues.

If one did change a job very early after receiving the greencard and you had to prove "intent" didn't change until after receiving it, the way you would have to prove it is by showing when you sent your resume, and when you interviewed. If you can show that you did this after you obtained greencard then you should be fine as your intent didn't change until after greencard.

I agree. This means you need to apply and get the job after getting GC. This could happen within 5 days after getting GC without raising any red flags. Another documentation of intent would be your old employer declaring bankrupcy after you filed I-485. Or just about anything your old employer does to disavow his intention when processing the preference petition for this job.

Now let's say one is in the process of changing jobs, ie., they have interviewed, received job offer but haven't started and all of a sudden greencard gets approved. One could argue that the intended employer changed before greencard approval and they changed to the employer shortly after greencard approval. In my mind it gets a little tricky if you don't have the job offer in hand prior to greencard approval.

Important thing to remember is that your naration of events is the focus. The immigration officer would trust you, since they understand what happens with several GC petitions. The inner working and trickery of "body shoppers" is not a secret.

The six to twelve months issue. If you think of why this is a measurement. Supposedly employment based greencards are issued because no other american is qualified for the job. Therefore, in theory the jobs are very specialized and people would not be able to skip from one job to another. Reality is different. Some jobs the cycle from someone responding to a job advertisement, to first interview, second interview, background check and ultimately moving to new job/location could take six months (I know this is how it would work for my situation). However, other jobs may have a shorter cycle (beginning to end could be one month).

Why 6 months or twelve months? Why not 6 years or 12 years? After all... the intention is to hire you in that specialized job. Reality on ground will be given priority here.

Therefore, if one changes employer shortly after greencard approval whether it be one, two months then make sure you have documentation that can prove your intent didn't change until after you received your greencard.

Get GC, change employer, live happy.

Good post UN.


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Spirit of USA Personal Responsibility, Opportunity, Equality.

 

[dsfgh100]

Hmm, technically, you have shown your intent to change jobs even if you start looking for another job, e.g., if you posted your resume on sites like monster.com before you got the GC. There have been cases where that was enough to cause problems.

JoeF, your credibility is at stake again. You are saying cases encountered problems because of the person posted his/her resume on Monster.com? You are claiming that there are cases where this has happened? Could you demonstrate credibility and prove your point? Show us the proof of where posting resume on Monster.com has caused problems in some one's petition. If you cannot prove it, please take back your words and apologize to everyone for spreading wrong information again.


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Spirit of USA Personal Responsibility, Opportunity, Equality.

 

[dsatish]

"Intent" is no longer an issue

Some of the people here are stressing too much on the importance of "intent" to work for the GC sponsor . They are fogetting that AC21 allows people to change jobs 6 months after filing the I485. That means, once you cross that 6 months period, you can always have an intent to change jobs. Since you do not know when you are getting to get the I485 approval, you can have an intention of changing the jobs right upto the day you get approval.

Now coming to post I485 approval era, here are my observations :
1) the USCIS web site clearly says that a permanent resident can choose any job he likes. Also the 2 yr restriction was all together removed and note that they have not replaced it with a 6 month or any other period. So the 6 month thumb rule interpretation is only a way of saying "the law is not clear. Here is my interpretation".
2) None of the doom sayers was able to show a single instance of a case where some one was deported because of changing jobs after getting the GC.
3) I agree that AC21 explicitly allows freedom to change jobs only during I485 stage. Why is that the law makers wanted to allow a person to leave the sponsoring employer during the I485 stage only ? The true interpretation of it would be "if the applicant has worked for 6 months with the sponsoring employer after the I485 is filed, then his obligation to work for that employer is over". This is the purpose behind the job portability provision in AC21. The AC21 law did not change the INA regarding employment based I485 applicants because there is nothing in INA that says that a employment based GC holder has to work for the sponsoring employer for certain period. The law is very clear (as shown in the link) that all GC holders have a right to choose a job of their liking. Even if the old law is strictly looked at, is not "the person has to have an intent to work" different from "the person has to work" ? So all you need to protect yourself is sufficient reason and documentation to explain why your "intention" has changed after getting the GC.
As a conclusion, i wouldn't think that INS will be so foolish to pass a judgement that "you did not have the intention" to work for this employer at the time of becoming a PR" (as i said before, such a conclusion is against the rights that AC21 gives to an I485 applicant to change employer during the I485 stage).

 

[dsfgh100]

Some thing that is not mentioned by our resident blabbering Joker JoeF is that Murthy's web site has a big disclaimer that reads, "The information provided at this site is of a general nature and may not apply to any particular set of facts or under all circumstances. It should not be construed as legal advice and does not constitute an engagement of the Law Office of Sheela Murthy or establish an attorney-client relationship. Laws are constantly changing. The information on this website was accurate at the time of posting and we make every effort to keep it current, however we are not responsible for outdated materials."

You could read it for yourself at this link...
http://www.murthy.com/disclaim.html

Who ever said that attorney's are always right? You get opinions from 4 attorneys, you will likely get 4 contradicting opinions.

The blabbering Joker JoeF has a problem that his ego is the size of a football field. He has trouble accepting his mistakes.

Any one who wants to learn about "intent" please read posts by dsfgh100 and wik in this and other threads. Ignore JoeF, and he will go away.


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Vote Bush '04

 

[dsatish]

dsfgh100,
Please give up the fight (suing the word "blabbering Joker ") with JoeF. It's better if we don't call any names to others.

 

[FunnyWait]

I just put dsfgh100 in ignore list....I won't be able to see his posts anymore....wow the board is back to useful one

 

[dsfgh100]

I just put dsfgh100 in ignore list....I won't be able to see his posts anymore....wow the board is back to useful one

FunnyWait my friend. To truely make this board more useful, there should be a way to ignore you on behalf of everyone.


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Spirit of USA Personal Responsibility, Opportunity, Equality.

 

[dsfgh100]

dsfgh100,
Please give up the fight (suing the word "blabbering Joker ") with JoeF. It's better if we don't call any names to others.

Come on dsatish. You have been in duel with JoeF in the past. Fess up. You like the title "blabbering Joker" when it is used on JoeF. Dont pretend as though you do not laugh when you see JoeF being called that. I know everyone else does.


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Spirit of USA Personal Responsibility, Opportunity, Equality.

 

[dsfgh100]

UN my friend. What you see may not be what actually happens. The old gang is often wrong and spread misinformation. Some members wants the old gang to retire and go settle in Florida, right in front of Igor. I do not give myself too much credit, but without my position on this board, it would be bastardized by misinformation spread by those old gang members, who are morons.


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Spirit of USA Personal Responsibility, Opportunity, Equality.

 

[eltoro]

Some members wants the old gang to retire and go settle in Florida, right in front of Igor.

You must be Russian. That's the only way to mistake Ivan for Igor...

Pashol von, sobaka!