How long to change job after GC

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JoeF said:
blah
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JoeF. Excuse me while I use your own words on you.....

To: JoeF
I am not in "duels" with anybody. Even if I disagree with somebody, that would just have been a difference in opinion. You are the only one who has sunk so low as to try personal attacks.
Even if I disagree with some people on opinions, if they can argue about it, they have my respect.
You, however, don't argue. You belittle people. You insult people. You have your minions try to impersonate me. You run smear campaigns. You are despicable.
 
eltoro said:
You must be Russian. That's the only way to mistake Ivan for Igor...

Pashol von, sobaka!
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Ivan, Igor. Same thing.

Go eat a duck. You are quacking like one.


----------------------------
Vote Bush '04
 
dsatish said:
In the following thread, one of the members ( Chakal2000 ) hastold about the experience of his friend who has quit his company on the day of stamping :

http://www.immigrationportal.com/showthread.php?p=904906#post904906
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very promissing progress on this debate. here is my understanding.

1) At the time the I-140 is filed one should have the intent to work for the
sponsoring employer indefinitely UPON approval of I-485. In other words,
the intent should exist at the time when I-140 is filed NOT when I-485 is
approved

2) once your I-485 is pending for more than 180 days, the intent can
change (AC21).

3) I-485 is NOT sponsored by the company. It is your own application. There
is no "sponsoring employer" for your AOS application. There is only
a "sponsoring" employer for your I-140 application. If you don't believe me
check the receipt notice for the "petitioner" section.

4) If you get I-140 approved through company A, then company A is your
"sponsoring employer" even if you work for company B by the time your
I-485 is adjudicated. Company B has never been your "sponsoring
employer" for your GC application. Thus the argument that one has to
have to work for B after GC because B is the sponsoring employer does
not make too much sense to me.

Just my opinion. welcome any comments.
 
zyu said:
3) I-485 is NOT sponsored by the company. It is your own application. There
is no "sponsoring employer" for your AOS application. There is only
a "sponsoring" employer for your I-140 application. If you don't believe me
check the receipt notice for the "petitioner" section.
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When I changed my job after 180 days of 485 filing and when my attorney sent AC21 documents, one of the docs mentioned that my new employer will "continue processing" I485. So though it is not really an employer sponsered application, it seems that one needs blessing from the employer. If that is true, then you need to continue working for the same employer even after 485 approval.

Also one may take a stand that its a commitment from employer to employ the applicant after 485 approval but its not a commitment from the applicant to continue working for the same employer.
 
I went to San Jose office to stamp my passport. Had a conversation with officer. m=me, o=officer

After stamp done, conversation started,

m: Can I ask you a question?
o: Yes
m: I just want to clearify this queston and not intend to do by myself.
m: Can I change job today?
o: I don't understand your question
m: I mean I am employ based green card. It is said that employ based green card holder can not change job immediately after the case approved. In the past the law said applicant has to work with sponsor company for at least two years.
o: There is no this 2 years restriction any more
m: I know but I heard 6 months is the good period to approve the intention. Is this true?
o: It is your own decision
m: Can I talk to your supervisor to verify this?
o: He is not in office today.
m: If I change my job today, what will happen during the citizenship stage? Will you take away my green card now?
o: No one will take it away. You are permanent residant of the Unitted State as of Aug xx, 2004.
m: So, can I change job
o: As I said it is your own decision
m: Thank you
 
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I have heard some lawyers say, that it is good to demonstrate intent to stick with your employer for a few months before leaving, but I have not found any substantial evidence of this. One thing to keep in mind is that most of these lawyers have the interest of the company rather than the employee for obvious reasons. If this was a valid requirement, then it should have occurred in some govt. document somewhere. http://uscis.gov/graphics/howdoi/PermRes.htm
 
lisansw said:
m: I know but I heard 6 months is the good period to approve the intention. Is this true?
o: It is your own decision
m: If I change my job today, what will happen during the citizenship stage? Will you take away my green card now?
o: No one will take it away. You are permanent residant of the Unitted State as of Aug xx, 2004.
m: So, can I change job
o: As I said it is your own decision
m: Thank you
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It looks like the officer was non-commital. This means INS is neither approving nor rejecting the change of job immediately after green card approval.
 
Murthy's FAQ on this topic says this on this subject
"
Generally, 6 months to 1 year after obtaining the green card is a safe time period to change employment. Failure to stay at the sponsoring employer may result in problems at the naturalization stage!
"

There is no certainty established in this note, nor does it point to any document / site from us.gov about the stay period. As I said before, most lawyers are lobbyists for the employers and not the employees, and Murthy is no exception.

JoeF said:
You should not trust anything what a CIS officer says. They are generally not trained in all the details of the law. And, quite frankly, that's not their job. Lawyers are the professionals. They are paid to know the law.
You don't go and ask a nurse about a cancer diagnosis, either. Doctors are the professionals who have the training to diagnose such a disease.

In the discussion about changing jobs, I trust what a respected lawyer like Ms. Murthy says more than what a CIS officer untrained in this particular topic says.
http://www.murthy.com/485faq.html#13
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There we go again ! An overabundance of fiction and no facts. Show me in Black and White where the usgov says that. And please stop introducing your own rubber rules and confusing the folks here.
BTW. If I need a worthless opinion, I'll ask you - OK?

JoeF said:
Of course not. The immigration law has a lot of rubber rules.
Of course not. As I have explained over and over, and as Ms. Murthy explains in her FAQ as well, it is about the intent. Why is that so hard to understand? To quote again: "Therefore, the employee must have a good-faith intention to work for the employer after the green card is approved, and the employer must have a good-faith intention to employ the employee after the green card is approved."
The 6-12 months are only a way to show this intent. Nothing more, nothing less. That should be easy to understand.
Now that's complete BS. A lawyer has to represent the interests of the person the lawyer represents. That is their professional obligation. Accusing lawyers of something else shows your bias more than anything else.
There of course may be unethical lawyers, but Ms. Murthy is one of the most respected and ethical lawyers in this country.
Just because you don't like what she says, you can't accuse her of violating the ethics rules of her profession. In fact, you get close to libel here.
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JoeF said:
You should not trust anything what a CIS officer says. They are generally not trained in all the details of the law. And, quite frankly, that's not their job. Lawyers are the professionals. They are paid to know the law.
You don't go and ask a nurse about a cancer diagnosis, either. Doctors are the professionals who have the training to diagnose such a disease.

In the discussion about changing jobs, I trust what a respected lawyer like Ms. Murthy says more than what a CIS officer untrained in this particular topic says.
http://www.murthy.com/485faq.html#13
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JoeF,

Thanks for the remind. In fact I did not draw any conclusion, just list the conversation here. :)
 
If the employer lays you off within 6 months of getting GC

I just got this reply from a lawyer regd changing jobs after recieving GC:

In today's dynamic market, many people want to know how long does an employee who receives employment based greencard needs to work for the same employer after getting he greencard. There is no precise answer to this question. The law say that if the employee left within 2 years, the employee has burden to prove that he/she accepted the job offer in good faith and didn't intend to leave at the time of accepting permanent residentship. If it is more than 2 years, the burden comes to USCIS to prove that. The theory behind greencard through offer of employment is that an employee is accepting a job on a "permanent" basis. But "permanent" obviously does not mean for ever as it does not make sense. But it also does not mean that the person leaves the company the day he/she gets green card. Each case would be different depending upon employee-employer relationship. But in general, staying with the same company for about 6 months to 1 year should be enough indication of permanency. "Permanent" means that, at the time the employee becomes a lawful permanent resident, neither the employer nor the employee have any plans to change the employment relationship described in the labor certification or I-140 petition. If you leave too soon, USCIS may claim that you did not intend to take the job up on a "permanent" basis. If the employer(or even a jealous co-worker)is dissatisfied with yourself leaving too soon, they can file a complaint with USCIS and USCIS may either take any action or not depending upon the circumstances. USCIS also may find about yourself leaving too soon while later applying for Citizenship or petitioning for relatives.

If USCIS finds out that the employee was just waiting for his/her immigration to be complete before jumping to a new job, then they are likely to charge fraud. If, on the other hand, it appears that the employee really did intend to stay with the petitioning employer indefinitely at the time of immigrating, but a legitimate reason later developed for leaving(like employer's business took an unexpected downturn and the employer had to lay off workers), then there should be no problem.

Even if the employer does not mind employee leaving immediately after getting the green card, it is not OK for USCIS. Both employer and employee should have good faith to have that employer/employee relationship on a "permanent" basis.
 
Hate beating this dead horse any further, but some basic questions have not been answerd here. I saw this posting on immihelp.com also, but here is my basic question.
How is USCIS going to judge a person's intent if it does not set conditions to validate it. If this were the case, then USCIS could have provided a 'conditional green card' just like a marriage based GC that could have been terminated if the employee did leave before a set period. The fact that they don't and make no mention of it in any uscis document shows that this argument is not valid. I have yet to see a single pundit / lawyer show me an official document on this.

Chakal2000 said:
I just got this reply from a lawyer regd changing jobs after recieving GC:

In today's dynamic market, many people want to know how long does an employee who receives employment based greencard needs to work for the same employer after getting he greencard. There is no precise answer to this question. The law say that if the employee left within 2 years, the employee has burden to prove that he/she accepted the job offer in good faith and didn't intend to leave at the time of accepting permanent residentship. If it is more than 2 years, the burden comes to USCIS to prove that. The theory behind greencard through offer of employment is that an employee is accepting a job on a "permanent" basis. But "permanent" obviously does not mean for ever as it does not make sense. But it also does not mean that the person leaves the company the day he/she gets green card. Each case would be different depending upon employee-employer relationship. But in general, staying with the same company for about 6 months to 1 year should be enough indication of permanency. "Permanent" means that, at the time the employee becomes a lawful permanent resident, neither the employer nor the employee have any plans to change the employment relationship described in the labor certification or I-140 petition. If you leave too soon, USCIS may claim that you did not intend to take the job up on a "permanent" basis. If the employer(or even a jealous co-worker)is dissatisfied with yourself leaving too soon, they can file a complaint with USCIS and USCIS may either take any action or not depending upon the circumstances. USCIS also may find about yourself leaving too soon while later applying for Citizenship or petitioning for relatives.

If USCIS finds out that the employee was just waiting for his/her immigration to be complete before jumping to a new job, then they are likely to charge fraud. If, on the other hand, it appears that the employee really did intend to stay with the petitioning employer indefinitely at the time of immigrating, but a legitimate reason later developed for leaving(like employer's business took an unexpected downturn and the employer had to lay off workers), then there should be no problem.

Even if the employer does not mind employee leaving immediately after getting the green card, it is not OK for USCIS. Both employer and employee should have good faith to have that employer/employee relationship on a "permanent" basis.
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Here is the answer
1 You can chnage job/employer wwhen you are on H1 status.

2. You can change employer while your 485 is processd.

Then why can you change employer after getting Green Card.
 
This is very useful thread. Do not use hash words against each other in the arguements.

some of the attorneys transform the material from uscis and argue on continuing with same company (6 months). i.e. from pro-employer attorneys ???

Some of the attorneys just transforms the material from uscis laws as attached, but it is no where mentioned about continuing with the same company. i.e. from Neutral attorneys ???

http://www.nolo.com/lawcenter/ency/...FEA/catID/C08A0295-9AFE-4F69-A9B7AEE732ECA9AB

More details is highly appreciated from all the members i.e. from uscis.gov website or other neutral attorneys.
 
"Someone who thinks he knows it all is especially annoying to those who really do"

Now, some people on this forum have hidden agendas and will use 'garbage talk' to justify them.

A simple fact:- Since the majority of immigration lawyers are paid by the employers, how can you expect them not to be pro-employer.

What written law are we talking about here ?


JoeF said:
There are no pro- or not-pro-employer attorneys. Any such notion is complete BS.
In particular, respected lawyers like Ms. Murthy are certainly above any "pro- or anti-something" talk.

Care to explain why you consider a lawyer who urges people to follow the law to be "pro-employer"??? Is following the law all of a sudden "pro-employer"???
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Originally Posted by JoeF
There are no pro- or not-pro-employer attorneys. Any such notion is complete BS.
In particular, respected lawyers like Ms. Murthy are certainly above any "pro- or anti-something" talk.

Care to explain why you consider a lawyer who urges people to follow the law to be "pro-employer"??? Is following the law all of a sudden "pro-employer"???

Folks, we should just ignore this repeatedly barking JoeF.
Any other details from uscis web site or other attorneys web sites is welcome about the sticking theory of 6 months, 3 months or 1 month or 1 year.
 
Keep shouting! You are entitled to your own stupid opinion !
Please do not quote Ms. Murthy's line again to prove your lost argument. Show me a document from usgov next time .
[Agenda]
And yes, if you'll stop lying about me, I'll stop telling the truth about you ;)


JoeF said:
Oh, and you really do? Then you hide your knowledge very well. All you do is attacking other people...
You characterized yourself quite nicely here.
I quoted from one of the most respected lawyers. Here is it again: http://www.murthy.com/485faq.html#13
"there is no change in the law with respect to the intention of the employer to offer and the employee to undertake "permanent," full-time work with the sponsoring employer for the job advertised. Keep in mind that a green card job offer is legally considered a future job offer. Therefore, the employee must have a good-faith intention to work for the employer after the green card is approved, and the employer must have a good-faith intention to employ the employee after the green card is approved. Even if a person had worked for the sponsoring employer for several years while pursuing the green card process, that would not count as future intent. Generally, 6 months to 1 year after obtaining the green card is a safe time period to change employment. Failure to stay at the sponsoring employer may result in problems at the naturalization stage!"
A simple fact: you are paid by an employer. So according to your "logic", I would expect you to be pro-employer.
Logic: F. Try again.
The immigration law. Read it for a change...
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Hi

First of all thank you all for a wonderful discussion going on. New comers like me learning a lot.

Please stop personal attacks and repeated arguments. As someone else said, if you have new evidence/experience please share with everyone.

Thanks guys
 
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