How long to change job after GC

[gorf]

JoeF,

How about Religious Workers GCs? Don't they come here to practice religion only?

What if priest X changes his mind and becomes "businessman x" after having been here for a while?

Isn't this contradicting his initial intention to work here as a man of the cloth?

Thanks

 

[zyu]

With due respect to JoeF and dsatish's opinion, I am tending to agree with both on certain aspects. The GC is for future job and a person should have good faith intent to continue with sponsorer. Having said that, if a week or month or year later, a person decides to do something else (diffrent field, employer etc), isn't he/she allowed to exercise their choice. As a GC holder there are no restrictions. In fact a few days back someone had posted the info from CIS webpage about rights of perm. resident " To be employed in the United States at any legal work of your qualification and choosing." Literal meaning of this line is in accordance with dsatish's opinion.
For most of us nothing changes after the GC. we still go back to the same job and do the same thing. In fact after stamping, I went back to work right away. Had taken a 2 hr break in the work day from my boss.

I agree. i checked the board of immigration appeals. none of the revocation of GC is due to changing employers. most of them are due to criminal records or discontinuous stay. i guess the risk that your GC being cancelled because of changing jobs after GC probably only exists theoretically. but i prefer to be on the conservative side, i.e., stay with the employer for some additional time. after all, it takes so long and so much effort to get it. why not spending some additional time?

 

[dsatish]

What BS. Your employer can complain to CIS, and your GC could be in danger. You have to have the good faith intent to work for the sponsoring employer "indefinitely."
Another clueless statement. Unless you are in charge of CIS, you can not know what they will or will not do. CIS examiners have quite some discretionary powers.
And finally, such clueless and potentially dangerous statements make me think that the "drive to reduce the I-140 backlog", which at least in theory is a good idea, may suffer from the same detachment from reality that you demonstrated in your post.

Joe F,
I appreciate your seniority and contributions in these forums. But i was surprised at the words and unnecessary comments in your reply to my post. I didn't expect this type of reply from a veteran like you. You can disagree with me, but then it would be lot better if you don't stray away from the subject. You are neither an immigration lawyer nor a judge in this forum. So you shouldn't have declared that my statements re clueless and potentially dangerous. I feel the same way about your arguments, but i didn't bother to say it publicly, because i believe in arguments that do not make any personal remarks.
One of the main reasons i have posted my opinion is to start a discusson with you and others. When i read your postings, i got scarred and thought that i have to continue with the small consulting firm for some more time. I truely believe that that's not necessary because of the following reasons:
1) There are no time limits on how long a person has to continue with the sponsor. The "intention" at the time of approval , might change after a month.
2) There are two contradictory legal issues on the matter of changing jobs after getting the GC. On the one hand, a GC holder has legal freedom to work for any company. On the second hand he should have good intention of continuing with the sponsoring company for a longer period. Now both the above aspects are legally correct. So what happens when there is a contradiction ? That is the crux of the problem. I believe that the former aspect is more supreme than the later one, as long as your ex employer does not complain to INS or you show some strong reason for leaving that company. The reasons could be poor pay compared to market rate, poor benefits, not paying on bench time, not providing enough opportunities for growth, other harassment etc. Any one can easily prove these facts (you can show old pay slip and the pay slip from new company). If people ar not getting substantial difference in pay, why would they leave the sponsoring company and take a little risk at citizenship ?
So, hidden / understood assumptions in my line of argument is that , a person can change jobs 1 month after getting GC, and he just need to have a good reason with material proof, to support his argument. In my opinion, that is not at all difficult for a vast majority of the people and that's why i would not scare any one who wants to change jobs 1 month after getting GC.

PS : I may not match your seniority in terms of number of postings or number of years in this forum, but just a search on my userid will tell you more about my contributions in I485 forums. I am a moderator for one of the forums on this site and i have started immigrationportal.org along with Raji Khanna etc.

 

[gorf]

dsatish,

I'd like to find out about a religious worker (GC) switching jobs / careers.
Do you know the answer to question I raised earlier?

JoeF doesn't seem to.

Thanks

 

[gorf]

JoeF,

I agree. Give me your take on this scenario:

Suppose, a religious instructor switches jobs after two (2) or more years of working for the sponsor after receiving his gc. Then, let's say he decides to become an IT guy because that what he wants to do.

While this is certainly not fraud, however, what will he face on that day of the citicenship interview?

If you can think of someone who has experience with this kind of stuff please feel free to point in this direction.

Thanks.

 

[dsatish]

Well, if I see BS, I call it BS... You essentially advocated fraud, and that's something I can not stand.

Well, if that is your nature, then i woul say, never reply to my posts directly and i would do the same thing. I would care more for mannerisms than calling names or using such words. You seem to be very rigid person.
Secondly, i did not advocate any fraud. Leaving a sponsoring employer immedately after getting GC is not a fraud if CIS takes 4 yrs for approving a GC petition, which is for a future job. No employer will petition CIS for a job that will be filled 4 yrs later. The whole system is designed to be a normal one (each of the LC,140 and 485 should take 1 month each) . Getting a GC through an employer on the basis of future employment and never working for that employer, is a fraud. More than 90% of the employers does not file a GC for a candidate who is not working for them. So a typical I485 approved candidate would have already worked for a long time (much more than the desired 2yr period in the original law). Delaying the whole process and not taking into the years we have worked with the sponsor, is a bigger fraud by CIS and i am sure they won't do that. There is no need for you to advovate a pessimistic and one sided view to every one here .

First off, there is no INS anymore. Second, you have to have the intent of working for the sponsoring employer regardless if somebody complains or not. Fraud is fraud

Many people still use the word INS in their postings, for its familiarity and simpleness to type and understand. There is no need for you to tell me about the name, unless you don't understand what INS means.
As i said before, leaving the company is not a fraud if you have alreay worked for it for many years. Trying to escape from a bad law or bad interpretation of the law is not a fraud. If we have to discuss about frauds, then the discussion has to start with the fraud committed by INS on the employment based immigrants by taking years and years to adjudicate the cases, and indirectly enforcing slavery (forced bondage with the sponsor).

That is all nice, but then you should have known that the statement you made is dangerous at best and should be avoided without qualifiers.

I feel the same way about your statements and advocacy. You are trying to scare every one by seeing only one side of the coin.

 

[dsatish]

JoeF,
As i said before, you see only one side of the coin and call it the law and also call some one dangerous if they see the other side of the coin. I am not advocating some one to break a law, i am saying that your interpretation of the law is not accurate . I feel that the law permits permanent residents to choose their jobs. All they need is proper justification do do that. PERIOD.
You are not a lawyer and it is time you realise that. Arguing is one thing, but using your choice of words for others arguments is another thing and you seem to be better at the latter. I am not going to reply to a rigid person like you. I made my views very clear and it is upto the people to decide who is correct.
Good Bye and have a nice week-end.

 

[dsfgh100]

Nothing for the PR. After all, the PR demonstrated that he wanted to continue to work for the employer.

JoeF, Maybe you did not understand what john was asking. How could someone demonstrate that they wanted to work for an employer thats gone out-of-business?

john, If your employer goes bust, there is little you could do. Collect information on the bust, get a new job and go on. If asked in future, make sure you have the information related to your old company's closure information handy. Best of luck.

 

[dsfgh100]

Once your GC is approved , you can simply forget about your ex employer. Let him go to hell or close his company or re open it. For you that chapter is closed. There won't be any difficulties at citizenship. Read my earlier post on job portability after GC.

I agree with you dsatish. There is certain amount of misinformation put forth by quack-attorneys like JoeF about duration to work for employer after getting GC. I do not know where JoeF gets all this wrong information from, but from reading his other posts, I would not be surprised if he dispenses advice that he reads from inside a Chinese fortune cookie.

 

[zyu]

I agree with you dsatish. There is certain amount of misinformation put forth by quack-attorneys like JoeF about duration to work for employer after getting GC. I do not know where JoeF gets all this wrong information from, but from reading his other posts, I would not be surprised if he dispenses advice that he reads from inside a Chinese fortune cookie.

i think people may be too concerned about the "intent" thing. most of us came here on F1 visa. we all know that F1 visa requires that we do not have the "intent" to emigrate to US. so what. do you worry that one day cis knocks at your door and ask you to demonstrate that you do not have the intent to emigrate to US when you obtained your F1, and if you fail to demonstrate that they will deport you? yes, theoretically it is possible by the law. but how likely is that. sometimes we have to use common sense.

 

[dsfgh100]

Why don't you learn something before sprouting BS?

JoeF, Show me where it says that your citizenship will be rejected if you quit the employer immediately after getting GC. If you cannot show an official USCIS policy to that effect, you are merely engaging in hearsay. I term hearsay as gossip and misinformation. Now, put up, or shut up.

 

[dsfgh100]

Well, that's a misunderstanding of the intent thing. F1 students have to have the intent to return to their home country when they get the visa and when they enter the country. While in the country, intent can change. I know people on F1 who don't leave the country because of that.
It is known that for people who enter on a visitor visa and then marry a US citizen, CIS looks very closely at the intent. There has been a lot of fraud with that.
So, the intent thing is not an idle threat.

As I said in another post, it may not be likely that they deport people who changed jobs too early after becoming a PR, but the threat is there, and if you are the one person they make an example of, you wouldn't like that.
An analogue: it is generally unlikely that you are going to have a car accident. Still, most people have car insurance to be safe just in case.

JoeF, if you were to think about this a little, you will see the falacy in your arguement. PR is a process initiated by the employer, and employee is no different than "an applicant for an open job". I apply for a job, I get the job, I report to duty on the first day, and hate my boss. So, I quit. That's the same pattern with a person quiting his/her employer after getting the GC.

One more thought to muse about: If the purpose of USCIS is to ensure that you plan to work for the said employer, then what is the holy relevance of the 6 month period you talk about? A person working for 5 months and 29 days will get rejects, and a person working 6 months and 1 day will get approved? Makes no sense. JoeF, try to understand the nature of PR and citizenship. Everyone changes jobs all the time. Changing jobs immediately after getting GC is perfectly legal and no amount of quack-advice from JoeF could prove otherwise.

 

[dsfgh100]

I have never said that. Do not misquote me!
I always that that it may cause problems. CIS examiners have a lot of discretionary powers.
Changing jobs too early can be an indication of immigration fraud, and there is no statute of limitation on immigration fraud.
Of course, if immigration fraud is shown, that would mean not just a denial of a naturalization application, but a deportation...
You are the one engaging in misinformation. You make a good politician. Do you already have a job in the Bush administration?
Get lost!

JoeF, All you do is scare, scare, scare. Do you get some hidden pleasure from scaring people on this board?

Read my last post before this, that lays out the case, clearly and concisely.

There is a job offered in the Bush administration? I would gladly take it. After all, it is good to get a job that will last until 2008.

 

[dsfgh100]

Another nice twist of words to conceal that you lost the argument... you are not the first one who tried to twist my words if he can't win an argument, and you probably won't be the last one...

Let me repeat what I always say in these threads:
The only problem is how to show in case of an investigation that it happened the way you said, and that you didn't plan it this way from the start.
That's where the common sense rule of working for some time for the employer comes in.
And lawyers generally recommend to work at least 6 months for the sponsoring employer. This is a rule of thumb, based on common sense.

JoeF, There is no "common sensical" is saying you need HAVE to work for an employer after GC. With issuance of GC, you are authorized to work for same employer, you are authorized for new employer, you are authorized to quit your job and live in a park. My assenrtion is centered around reality, and not some vague ideology wrapped in the cover of "common sense".

There are lawyers who would recommend you do not need to work 6 months for the sponsoring authority. Lawyers like birds, fly all directions.

 

[dsfgh100]

nonsense deleted

Repeating your lines again and again does not make it right. Sorry JoeF, my misguided bud.

 

[dsfgh100]

nonsense deleted

Repeating your lines again and again does not make it right. Sorry JoeF, my misguided bud.

 

[dsfgh100]

blah blah blah

Repeating your lines again and again does not make it right. Sorry JoeF, my misguided bud.

 

[dsfgh100]

blah blah blah

JoeF, You so affected because your empty headed thoughts have been challenged? Chill out my bud. We are all here to benefit from each other's experiences. Lose this "better than thou" attitude". No wonder you have been this dead-end computer programmer without any bright future.

 

[ag28]

Don't make this personal

I think that we should make the discussion constructive. All of us are in stable jobs so the above discussion may be moot but nonetheless, it is an interesting topic. While JoeF is right about the intent thing the burden of which always rests with the individual, the 6 month that he mentions (even though Joef says is rule of thumb) is not really essential. As a GC holder I may want to rest at home for n months after GC. I would agree that his language at times may scare people and we should maintain the decorum of the forum. None of us are lawyers and as such the weight of our words should be equal to next to nothing. Also, he is right in that it doesn't matter how many months it takes to get GC, what matters is at the time of approval but after that I guess one is technically free to pusue a legal job of his liking, qualification and choosing. I think scotgirl did confirm this.
people are free to post their views on this.

 

[gb111]

It's time to be unafraid

I was in the U.S for 12 years on various visas (F1, H1B, etc.), before I finally got my permanent residency. Apart from the first few, blissful years while I was in college, I was in a constant state of fear of not being able to stay in the U.S. My fear prevented me from visiting my folks for a periord of 5 years at one stretch of time. This despite the fact that I had never been out of status or done anything to jeopardize my future G.C. (well, except for that one little incident which I won't mention here

It's not surprising that people like JoeF are still paranoid (and spreading their paranoia) about losing their G.C. or not getting their citizenship. Its because the fear of being deported is so ingrained in our very souls, that we forget to enjoy any of the freedoms that this greencard bestows upon us.

So my advice to anyone contemplating a job change after getting their G.C. is this: DO IT NOW! A 5-year old could show the *intent* that USCIS requires. You could say, it was my honest intent to work for my sponsoring employer, but in the 4 years it took to get it, my intent changed. Or you could say, my current religious beliefs prevent me for working with my sponsoring employer. Or you could say, the color of the office furniture offends me now..... Or say that your desk was not ergonomic and your boss wouldn't buy you a new one....

USCIS is far tooooo busy to prove you are wrong and your intent was untrue. The 6 mnths is just a *conservative* way to demonstrate your ***indefinite*** intent.

DO IT NOW if you can find a better job (more secure, better pay, better eye candy, whatever floats your boat and runs your engine).

And finally, use these postings (by JoeF, et al) as a source of entertainment only.... Spend $100 and talk to a competent immigration attorney or two for more experienced, legal advice.

toodles

p.s. I had the misfortune of getting in JoeF's killfile last year. It seems to have grown substantially since then.