Here is the Govt's Response to The complaint

total waste ......

This is not going anywhere....., i guess everyone has the time and patience to write and reply to posts and i think you people are just proving that time and again by replying over and over again.

A total waste of time.............

Bottom line : We need results and nothing else..... Get results and then talk,write
 
Re: Re: Thank you all

Originally posted by feb6361
Dear Mr. Rajiv,

Well said!! Yes..We need some more ledearship amongs us folks. More people to plan, organize, move!!!!.

Rajum,

I have sent an email long time back after NJ 1st meet and gave one contact name for you to contact..You haven't replied to my email yet..Please do so..

Others,

Please stop arguing each others and do some constructive work as per Mr. Rajiv's note..

Thank you!!


feb6361,
Thanks for your message. I remembered that conversation with you. Till now, I am concentrating on other things for the community. I will call you this weekend. As a backup, If I miss it on saturday, I request you to call me on Sunday..

-rajum
 
Re: TheLastMile

Originally posted by poongunranar
.....
Also, every society, every polity, and every institution of a free country aspires to usher in an egalitarian society that is free of all crimes and corruption. That is the goal. But, only Ulysses' Utopia will qualify for that society...

Dear Sir, methinks you are mixing your Mythology with your Philosophy, as I am under the impression that it was Plato's Utopia that adresses the "near-perfect" society (the "Who guards the guardians?" question is highly applicable to USCIS IMHO), while Ulysses took a return trip from Troy to Ithaca in in Homer's Odyssey. I could be wrong, of course, I don't profess to be an expert at either Greek mythology or philosophy, and don't even try to pretend to be one--note that I don't drown my posting(s)with domain-specific buzz-words, something that appears to be on the rise in this thread, but I digress.

On a related note, Rajiv, could you please post your postings in a thread where others can't post, I find it tiresome to sift through a pile of ... personal attacks, wannabe lawyers, wannabe marketeers, and other unqualified opinions to read your comments and news. I am sure a significant portion of your audience would welcome the ability to filter out the noise that is drowning your signal.

Thank you in advance.
:)
 
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Re: Rajiv

Read the following excerpt from our Memorandum in Support of Class Certification:

Exceptions to Mootness

Capable of Repetition, Yet Evading Review

The most commonly used exception to the mootness doctrine is that the claim is “capable of repetition, yet evading review.” Sosna v. Iowa, 419 U.S. 393 (1975). Under such an exception, the court will generally look to whether “(1) there [is] a reasonable expectation or a demonstrated probability that the same controversy will recur involving the same complaining party, and (2) the challenged action is in its duration too short to be fully litigated prior to its cessation or expiration.” Sierra Club v. Martin, 110 F.3d 1551, 1554 (11th Cir. 1997).
It is also pertinent to examine whether the defendant systematically violated the law on a “class-wide basis” in which case the pre-certification mooting of named plaintiffs’ claims “does not moot such a class action claim.” See Samuels v. District of Columbia, 248 U.S. App. D.C. 128, 770 F.2d 184, 193 n. 5 (D.C. Cir. 1985).
Intervention By Other Class Members

Courts will permit substitution of named plaintiffs whose claims have been mooted if there exists a live controversy in regards to the class members. See Swan v. Stoneman, 635 F.2d 97, 102 n. 6 (2d Cir. 1980) (“To the extent that appellants’ argument is that Swan’s death does not moot the class claim if one of the proposed intervenors can be substituted as a named plaintiff, we agree.”) The Swan court further states “[a]s a general rule, a class-action cannot be maintained unless there is a named plaintiff with a live controversy both at the time of the complaint and at the time the class is certified.” Id. at 102. The Swan court further notes that this general rule is not without exception and that the “capable of repetition, yet evading review” exception can also overcome the requirements of the general rule. See id. Similarly, in Silva v. Vowell , the court stated that “[o]nce the [named plaintiffs’] challenge became moot and put the named plaintiffs’ standing in question, the plaintiffs and the judge should have realized that intervention by another plaintiff was appropriate.” 621 F.2d 640, 650 (5th Cir. 1980) (case remanded to district court to allow “an appropriate named plaintiff [to] intervene.”), cert. denied, 449 U.S. 1125 (1981). Similarly, the court in Rivers v. Califano permitted the intervention of new plaintiffs with live claims and granted class certification. 86 F.R.D. 41, 45-46 (S.D.N.Y. 1980); see also H. NEWBERG, NEWBERG ON CLASS ACTIONS §§ 2.25-2.26 (2d. ed. 1985 & Supp. 1988). Such action is especially appropriate where the events causing mootness have only individual rather than class-wide impact. H. NEWBERG, supra § 2.25.
Relating Certification Back to the Time Of Filing of the Complaint

Finally, the Cockrum v. Califano decision strongly suggests that class certification is appropriate in the case at bar. 475 F. Supp. 1222 (D.D.C. 1979). In Cockrum, plaintiff claimants filed suit against defendant, the Secretary of the Department of Health, Education, and Welfare, claiming that the Social Security Administration failed to process certain appeals of benefits decisions in a timely manner. See id. at 1224-25. The Court found that “the problem plaintiffs complain of is systemic and nationwide in scope, and that a long-run solution, generally inappropriate and premature at a preliminary stage, must be made systemic rather than ad hoc in the final judgment.” Id. at 1232 The Supreme Court has acknowledged that a special allowance in dealing with a class action may be necessary for claims that become moot during the pendency of an action:
There may be cases in which the controversy involving the named plaintiffs is such that it becomes moot as to them before the district court can reasonably be expected to rule on a certification motion. In such instances, whether the certification can be said to "relate back" to the filing of the complaint may depend upon the circumstances of the particular case and especially the reality of the claim that otherwise would evade review.
Sosna, 419 U.S. at 402 n. 11. In Cockrum, the Court acknowledged the transitory nature of the class action by stating “it is likely … that many named parties will obtain decisions throughout the pendency of this action.” Cockrum, 475 F. Supp. at 1233. In concluding that class certification was appropriate, the Cockrum Court stated “[f]irst, the Court concludes it would be undesirable if the concept of mootness were defined so that unfettered power to control judicial review rested with defendants.” Id. The Court further added that the “plaintiffs’ advance epitomizes an ‘injury capable of repetition yet evading review’ … [because] a plaintiff dependent on Social Security and the efficiency of the system remains threatened by the defects in the system even though his immediate complaint is resolved, because the systemic delays could affect the claimant in the not unlikely event of a subsequent controversy with the system.” Id The court noted in its reasoning that, as in Roe v. Wade, 410 U.S. 113 (1973) “refusal to consider a class-wide remedy merely because individual class members no longer need relief would mean that no remedy could ever be provided for the continuing abuses.” Id. (citing Blankenship v. Secretary of HEW, 587 F.2d 329, 333 (6th Cir. 1978)). The Court continued its analysis by stating that regardless of whether the individual claims were moot, “the action is not moot as between members of the plaintiff class and defendants.” Cockrum, 475 F. Supp. at 1233. The Court ultimately concluded that certification should “relate back” to the date of the filing of the complaint and that the class action claim was not moot. Id.
Application to the Case at Bar

If at all an issue, mootness is certainly not a fatal issue in this matter. First, there remain six viable Plaintiffs representing the class and the subclasses. The controversy, thus, is alive and justiciable. Second, this claim falls properly within the “capable of repetition yet evading review” exception. Third, the claims of the class survive the claims of individuals. Based on the history of application backlog at the USCIS, inexorable probability is that the same controversy will recur continuously. The transitory nature of the class may allow for the resolution of individual claims before the matter is fully litigated. The mootness of these individual claims should not affect the certification in the class because like Cockrum, “the action is not moot as between members of the plaintiff class and defendants.” Cockrum, 475 F. Supp. at 1233. The case at bar is factually similar to the Cockrum decision and therefore, class certification should be appropriate in this case as well. Similar to Cockrum, the violation is class-wide and its effect is nationwide in scope. Fourth and final, this Court can properly certify this class by “relating back” to the filing of the Complaint. The Cockrum Court was unwilling to grant defendants the power to control judicial review by allowing them to destroy class certification through mooting the claims of individual named plaintiffs. The same rationale is applicable to the case at bar.






Originally posted by poongunranar
Rajiv:

I had discussed about this in the TSC forum sometime ago. I predicted that in order to avoid the culpability arising out of this suit, INS may well adjudicate all the plaintiffs thereby making the suit moot. At least a few cases of the plaintiffs have been approved within the past few months. If this trend continues, the cause for Class-Action gets seriously undermined. Do you think the priority is to first get the case admitted as Class-Action, so that the approval or pending of the plaintiff's applications becomes moot to our interests?

Also, as a lawyer, I am sure you appreciate that POSITIVE contribution means not merely venting out or singing cymbals of sycophancy. Rather, it is mostly appreciated in legal attack/defense that failure to prepare is preparing to fail. I hope my views on the flip-side of the coin would help bolster the points you will muster to counter the counter-claim filed by the defendants. Thanks for steering the efforts and good luck
 
Hmmm-- My messages in a seperate thread.

Good idea.

Monica please guide. Deepa, Rashmi, can you ladies take care of this for me please. Copy all my messages in "The Complaint" forum together somehow. First, tell me what you are planning please.
 
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I am not sure if the following points can be used for legal proceedings

1. Got rejected when I apply for a credit card, as I don't have GC and they don't recognize EADs/APs. ( Hudson Valley Federal Credit Union )

2. Got rejected, when applied for Mortage from one of the Lender as I am having the status of non-resident Alien



If needed I can supply the written rejections letters.
 
Re: Re: Re: Thank you all

rajum,

I thought you haven't received my email..no problem, I will wait for your call otherwise call you on Sunday..

Thank you!

Originally posted by rajum
feb6361,
Thanks for your message. I remembered that conversation with you. Till now, I am concentrating on other things for the community. I will call you this weekend. As a backup, If I miss it on saturday, I request you to call me on Sunday..

-rajum
 
Re: Hmmm-- My messages in a seperate thread.

Originally posted by operations
Good idea.

Monica please guide. Deepa, Rashmi, can you ladies take care of this for me please. Copy all my messages in "The Complaint" forum together somehow. First, tell me what you are planning please.

Rajiv,
I don't think that it's a good idea to post static messages in a thread. Let's continue the lively discussions we are having all these days. Once in a while, we see some arguments getting out of control and we can prevent it by your timely intervention or by deleting the useless postings.
Peace every one. Let us continue our normal discussions here.
 
Please re-direct your energy and frustration

I understand the frustration, but I love Rajiv's optimistic and constructive perspective. We will keep fighting and we will win.

Please use the energy in a positive way, instead of fighting with each other. We are all in the same team.

Elnegro
 
Thanks Rajiv Khanna

..for the Shepardize that is pretty strong in the case-law to rule out mootness of the suit. I was able to see how the defendants were very eager to ride over the mootness of the plaintiffs to attentuate the cause of class-action. Seems like the case-law is pretty strong in this aspect.

I am currently outside the US and am trying to Shepardize a few points based on case-law. Especially in Ngwaniya V Ashcroft , US District Judge Hon'ble Richard Kyle had heavily come down upon the INS' bungling -- especially on the additional paperwork that is resulting as a result of annual work-permits. He minced no few words against the INS by lambasting heavily with the following terms: "Kafkaesque," "egregious," "plainly harmful." Hon'ble Justice Kyle had specifically blasted INS for not providing work-permits that are valid until the duration the asylee's petition is taken up for adjudication. Now, to my knowledge, am not sure, if there is any proviso that we can cite to further our case to have at least the work-permits and advance-paroles to be valid until the petition is adjudicated. He observed, "The law requires the government to grant a work permit automatically and to keep it valid as long as an asylee remains an asylee: 'not a minute shorter, and not a minute longer,' he thundered.

As many of the other friends in this forum have questioned the logic of FIFO, LIFO inconsistencies in processing, again the very same Judge blasted by observing, "I condemn the INS for the 'one-law-for-Tuesdays-and-another-law-for-Wednesdays' mismanagement, including practices that varied office-by-office and day-by-day." He even criticized the stealthy nature of INS' policy regarding issuance of work permits as it was never communicated to anyone in the field.

My two cents. I will take more time to offer my few more cents, for whatever it is worth with additional Shepardize. Thanks, once again.
 
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Re: rajum

Originally posted by poongunranar
Thanks, dear friend.

1) Just because "Consular Processing," takes little time than "I-485 processing," cannot be a valid argument in the court of law. .....of the argument.

2) Do you have tangible numbers to prove to the court about the irregularities

3) It is purely the Judge's prerogative to evaluate whether INS was right to cause so much backlogs,...
4) Friend, I share your agony as I am .....
]


poongunranar,
You are doing an excellent job of presenting an alternative opinion. I don't consider your arguments as hallow.
I saw couple of your mails previously especially on Advance Parole in other threads. I leant a lot from it.You write very well but the problem I have in your approach is you tend to take a conservative legalist approach.

I read your argument on good faith. But I am not sure on the example you have given. If a divorce case is going on and if the case has been abjudicated then the spouse is eligible for green card...if the divorce has been issued and they didn't informed the INS, INS issued green card for spouse after divorce...I think that it is illegal not to inform CIS...if CIS knows tomorrow...the spouse green card will be withdrawn ....I am not sure how primary applicant and spouse can escape the fraud charge....the reason is that when we applied for green card, we are making implicit declaration that the above facts are true to the best... So, if there is any material changes in the statements which we make at the time of application, I presume that we need to inform to the CIS...however, I am not sure as I never thought of this scenario...

I think you should have taken the example of losing the
prospect of future employment.... suppose employer withdraws prospective future job to you and if he does not inform CIS...and CIS issues us green card under the assumption that we got prospective future employment based on employers declaration (through filing labor, I-140 and giving an employment letter) then who is responsible for this situation...INS can always go back and take the green card and sue the company for fraud and not acting in good faith ...if you know that you don't have prospective future employment and not withdrawn your I-485, how can one escape the fraudulent intent...
Where is the law for this scenario...but at the same time I don't think one cannot escape fraudulent intent charge and withdrawl of green card and may be deporting proceedings........In US there is something called Disclosures...

Arthur Anderson was found guilty by the courts despite not doing anything illegal if I buy your arguments under the yard stick of not acting in "good faith" by shredding the documents after realising that it may get subpeona...In India, the courts definitely measures by the legal yardstick like you are proposing..(Jayalalitha's TANSI land case but however even in that case courts has mentioned that she has acted in bad faith...)

Now, you have not replied to my question of what happens when the law is silent...to me the answer is very clear... we need to find answers in the constitution and if the constitution is silent then we need to apply 'natural justice' priniciples and if we cannot apply that yard stick, you need to give benefit of doubt to one party...most likely to the defending party...so if CIS does not follow FIFO then the constitutional right under the "Equality under law" is violated and so CIS cannot follow LIFO or random choice methodology and courts can dictate that CIS has to follow FIFO or it has to convince the court that its methodology does not violate the constitution of equal protection under law....

Now I will give one more example of what happens when law is silent...take the example of H-1. what happens if some one loses job under H-1.
Law is silent, and physically it is not possible to leave the country on the same day, CIS historically took a position to give a ten day grace period. It was assumed that the date as the date of his losing job.And two years back, one federal court has interpreted that the employers need to pay the salary till the employer submits to CIS that they are withdrawing the H-1 and CIS accepts the withdrawl. It is not even the day the employer sends an application to the CIS but the approval of the application by the CIS....So, that means a person is in status till CIS accepts employers withdrawl petition. Now tell me under what power the court has interpreted this though there is no explicit law in H-1 case. At least we got the explicit law which states that it the sense of the Congress that the cases has to be finalized within 180 days....the moral: Court is the competent authority to interpret the law and when it interprets it takes into consideration the spirit of law, Congressional intention, background of the law and all other relevant factors....So, I strongly disagree with you interpretation that it has to be in black and white...it is a different matter if the court decides that AC 21 is not enforceble...court may very well decide that...I am not worried on that front....

Now, I didn't mean wilful discrimination when I brought the case of CP. I raised that as a good indicator for determining the reasonable period....in CP, the file has to be move between multiple agencies rather than a single agency in case of AOS..still AOS is slower...if CIS has logistic issues, then why I should be denied justice...
I will give few examples...some are close
analogies...some may be ridiculous...If I have to pay a particular amount as taxes and if I have logistic issues, will the Govt. agree for not paying the taxes......suppose if Microsoft says that they got logistic problem in submitting tax returns will IRS accepts it...if I say that I got logistics issue in replying to a RFE within three months ...will CIS accepts it....by logistics, one can buy some more time say from 6 month to 9 month or one year....not from 6 months to 33 months...

Yes...we got tangible number to prove to the CIS that they are approving December 2002 cases when December 2001 and January 2002 has not even issued RFE's and second FP. There are cases where RFEs are pending for more than 6 months to 18 months when RFE as recent as 20 days are replied... if tomorrow CIS shuts down its online status checking...we can always request approval cases data through court...

On above two counts, I personally feel that Justice is denied to me as "Equality under law" is not followed....my citizenship count has not started...I have to pay higher premiums for my life insurance(I can get a letter of denial from one of the companies)...I have to bargain for lesser position(I literally did that 15 days back)..and my prime time has been wasted in maintaining the same career position...my brother has to pay full tuition fees in universities for his kids in Virginia because of delayed ...

One more point on "Motives" which you raised in few mails...Suppose you hit a person and that person is injured...and you are arguing that court will see the motive...right...I agree with you...depending on the motive, the court will impose punishment to me...I agree...but even in case of me not having bad motives and it is simply a case of accident, the minimum the court will order is to give compensation for the person.for his medical treatment and his loss of pay..why can't the same logic is applied here...even if CIS does not have any bad motives, we are definitely being harmed...we are not even asking the compensation for the loss and we are asking to stop further loss for its inaction without entering into "motives" question.So, I strongly feel that we need not prove any bad motives and it should be enough if we prove that we are facing difficulties because of CIS inaction....

As I said that I can understand your conservative legalistic perspective....and I also agree that court may not accept our argument...but I feel that our case is just and has strong merits....as I said that I am not a legal person... I am not educated in law..and so I may be wrong...
 
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rajum

Kudos, my friend. I applaud you for painstakingly redacting a lengthy reply. I beg to differ as well as concur on most of it. This is the power of debate and arguments. You, with all your frustration, haven't given up hope to challenge facts. So, once again I want to applaud you.

Coming to the merits of your points, it is not that I am a CONSERVATIVE. I am a firm believer of Aristotle's Nicomachean Ethics, which basically advises that any extreme is evil per se. So, I am not a conservative, buddy. But, put yourself in my shoes....have you climbed the stairs of the court in this country...have you tasted defeat in your own case where you have ample of case-points, yet, the court rules against your favor by adopting a stupid preponderance of evidence yardstick.....have you cried out of those bitter experiences....I have undergone all that crap. That is when the realization came. That was a moment where I rediscovered myself. Until then, as a linguaphile and a philologist, I always used to take things in literal sense --not in legal sense. Once I got kicked and trampled very badly, that is when I came to know that the words/facts/arguments/evidences, etc. that we use in real world is entirely different when it comes inside the portals of a courthouse. One another friend even carped that I type a lot. Well, if it is algebra, it will be pithy. If it is legalese, it has to be but lengthy. Have you seen any court document that spans less than 1 page? Why I am saying all this is, "He hit her," will be a true fact. But, once inside the court, the law will examine the meaning of "hit," and whether a "newton" or a "dyne" ( Flores Vs. Ashcroft, Removals Proceedings) of force is involved to warrant a classification of the offense, etc. So, to keep long story short, once an issue comes to court, that is how it is explored in every angle. So, it is not my personal position, but, just the legal dimension that brings out what an attorney or a Judge would bring out in a case or argument.

That much said, friend, it is not right when you say that I insist on the laws being black/white. I have assisted a number of persons who have been placed in removal proceedings/criminal proceedings (shop-lifting/domestic-violence/sexual battery) and if you had seen my postings in TSC, you will see the amount of optimism I exude for all those folks. In all those cases, you will see me trying to derive the advantage from the Statutes/Law, where most of the stuff will not be clearly enacted in the law. In fact American Law (unlike Indian Penal code) is more interpretative in nature. That is where the roles of lawyers come into picture. If ALL the laws are in black/white, then there is no need for so many interpretations by many courts across the nation. All that I said was, if a black/white tangible figure is given as per law, then relief is immediate. Compare and contrast how many criminal-aliens across this country seek a jail sentence of 364 days or less. What is so magical about that number? Well, any criminal sentence of 365 days can be construed as aggravated felony for immigration purposes. And this is why INS has asked ALL the US Attorneys to not allow aliens to bargain for sentences less than 365 days and has even gone a step ahead to say that even if one were to be bargained for a less sentence, mere acceptance of guilt can be construed as aggravated felony for immigration purposes. Now, you tell me friend, if I am conservative or the immigration laws are conservative. Normally, aggravated felonies are for murder/rape and other grievous crimes. I can give you examples where aliens, who were charged with DUI and DWI have been convicted for aggravated felony for immigration purposes and deported. The point to reiterate is, if it is tangible, relief is easy to get. Else, it depends on the power of the arguments and presentations at the trial. That is all.

And let me give you one example -- in my civil action case (for sake of privacy please do not ask me the details of it. Thanks) I produced proper Court and Notarized Documents of Government of India, at which the Judge said, "I will not take hearsay evidence." I told her that the documentary evidence I am submitting are as much true evidence as a marriage/birth certificate issued by my country. Yet, she said, that she will dismiss those evidences as hearsay. Now, you tell me, how you can prove all the cases you cite. Can you bring each of them to Court? Do you have a historical record of their petition numbers to present to the court? Even then, INS can clearly insist that it's its own prerogative on which the court has no locus standi. This has been clearly affirmed by Rajiv as well, in his own reply. So, in a court of law, unless you produce tangible evidence (burden of proof is on the plaintiffs), it will only be dismissed quickly as hearsay. I have had serious (bitter) experiences in all of this and of course it is your right to ignore what I say. I truly respect your opinions.

As far as the example of not notifying pending divorces/changing jobs etc. , has caused problems to people on which I have some documentary evidence. For sake of privacy, I will not be able to share it with you. Again, as I said, you can either ignore this or accept it. As I always used to say in TSC forum, I write out of my own experiences and nothing more. I suffered a lot under this country's Civil Judicial System and I took it upon myself that I lost my case initially because I knew no jack about legal system of this country. Not anymore. And I truly believe in Socratesian mode of knowledge-seeking to seek truth and wisdom with persistent questions and to assert that an individual can make all the difference in a society. I lost, because I didn't know. Now, I share what I know, so that a poor alien, need not have to run from pillar to post -- from one court to the other, even while trying to secure his job in a skittish economy. The very process of having to fight your case in a trial --be it Civil or Criminal in this country can be a Road to Perdition, with the process being a clear War of Attrition. Thank God, this is a class-action suit, where it is not individuals who have to undergo the mental torture of climbing the stairs of the court! And in the TSC forum, my mission is to help those people who are accused either wrongly/rightly for any of the offenses they may have been accused of, thereby putting their GC process into jeopardy. They crave for advice and help. I merely do that by delving deeper into legal statutes and how some valuable cues can be obtained from case-law. I am good at Shepardizing and help them in their moments of fear, because I am not here to judge anybody. If somebody asks and if I know something, I humbly table it for their perusal. It is then their responsibility to run it by their legal attorneys. What is giving me all the encouragement to not give up, despite being wrongly understood as not being on "their" side by a few friends is that I have received a lot of private messages/emails where such accused persons said that they were able to corroborate whatever I said to be true with their attorneys. Automatically that gave me and still gives me the fillip to write, what I feel is right. But, as Socratesian Philosophy suggests, I am here in this forum to LEARN from many of your arguments and points as well. I really do not want to earn attraction and hence my username is a nom de guerre. Hope all of this will clear any misconception about me so that you folks can just train your focus on my arguments, as you did, rajum.

I truly dedicate whatever I write to those friends who finally put their swords down and went away to their home countries, after not being able to stand and fight their case in either the Civil/Criminal courts of this country. Yeah, I fought, and as a result my GC petition has been transferred to local office for interview! Who knows why they transferred it. Anyways, I will fight my case until the last. I do not want another X, Y, or Z to be a victim of not being aware of the laws of this country, so that he/she, at a wrong moment have the unfortunate brush with the legal system of this country.

Once again, thanks for all your input. Keep discussions going like this. Challenge anybody and everybody with questions. You are certainly better off than just venting out your anger, cursing/dissing defendants or others, that way. God bless.
 
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SirZ

Originally posted by SirZ
Dear Sir, methinks you are mixing your Mythology with your Philosophy,
Nope! I was using Utopia as a toponym. I am not sure if it was a creation of Plato, but I am sure it is a creation of Sir Thomas More. As far as "buzz-words," I think one has to blame the legalese that warrants it.
 
Originally posted by dasarihp_newid
By now. Mr poongunranar, you may have known that we are not talking about a bill but a law..
Friend, I never said that this entire suit was filed based on bills and not on laws. I merely broached that topic to show that a bill doesn't have a legal basis as law. And even if it is law, it should be an "enforceable law." Clearly 180-day limit doesn't seem to have enforcement provisions with it. That is where the court has to examine the law, probably by even a full-bench??? I don't know.
There are innumerable # of members in this board, including yourself and myself who can prove in the court that we are facing hardships due to this delay, don't you agree ?
I will agree, provided I can stand-up in court and state the same under oath. That is what counts. And until this suit is not classified as a class-action suit, it will be only treated on an individual basis. Also, yes. I agree, that case-law has some strong predecessor decisions in this regard as well. I am with you.

By the way did you check out the excel sheet attached in one the posts here which gives the proof that shows the decrease in % of approvals over time ? it cannot be due to increase in # of applications, because % of applications year of year has been increasing since the inception of green card.
I will have to look more into this. But, if you have solid tangible figures to share, then you can assert those truths by filing a counter to the counter that INS has posted.

I don't know if the following is a valid point, but we are paying for service, and then don't you think we should expect the service accordingly ?.
Again there are some interesting case-law precedents and this is something that the court has to delve deeper, because we are now claiming an abstract concept that is not tangible. I am sure, the Judge can push the defendants to explain what can be the expected level of service, if they are not in compliance of 180-day adjudication goal. I think the defendants will duck under the premise of 990-999 days in the receipt notice. I am pretty positive that is where their bet is. Let us see.

I don't know if I tried to make my point but, that what I feel is required by most of the members in the end.. a TEMPORARY RELIEF !!
You certainly did, and I am with you on all of it. The only difference is, emotionally and physically I am doing the same as you guys are doing -- including venting out the anger of injustice etc. But, then, once I start thinking in terms of trial/court-house, my legal experience kicks in and I know for sure, that that is how the issue will be examined in the court.

Do you now see why the response by the defendents(BCIS) here is not being well taken by the members in the discussion here ?
Friend, do you even think I am supporting INS for their counter? I am merely trying to say that, law has enshrined the rights to the defendants and whatever they have said is being said with a basis that I am able to see that others are not, because of their anger against the defendants and their callous attitude. God forbid, I am not supporting them and rejecting any of you. First of all who am I, but an ordinary person of this forum!!

Anyway, can you based on your legal expertise, let us know if we have a case or not, and if we do, what would you do presently to increase our chances in winning this lawsuit..your comments are appreciated, at least by me..
Golly, friend, I never said anything outrightly bad against this suit. Prima facie a case exists. Certainly! Now, the crucial acid-test will be to see if the Honorable Judge would admit this as a Class-Action suit. If he does, I think that will be one of the greatest victories to all our efforts. Even if it were to fail, I still think that no stone should be left unturned to request an en banc (full bench) hearing at the Circuit Court of Appeals or the US Supreme Court. Until then, I will throw whatever two cents worth of opinion I have in my armory.

Thanks for your kind words. I appreciate it, because I do not care about what others think of me. But in the brouhaha, some valid questions should not be just merely dismissed as "unworthy" of a comment. Because, ultimately the winners and losers are all of us. Collective effort always wins! Having been a Plaintiff as well as a Respondent myself, I know what helps me in each of those roles -- as a plaintiff, a valuable attorney or friend who can tease me as a Devil's advocate by highlighting the strength of the arguments of the defendant so that I can get ready all the more to pounce on the defendant, as well as correct my own presentation of facts and hone a little bit. As a respondent, I would like my attorney/advisor to basically highlight to me the validity and the strength of the prayers/accusations tabled by the Plaintiff, so that my adrenalin kicks-in to suitably refute the same.

Now, go and see, why I show more interest in seeing the "other side of the coin." By that, all I am doing is firiing-all-my cylinders to better equip myself for a legal blitzkrieg against my opponent. It is a tactical legal style that one needs to adopt. I mean, sycophancy and empty mob-rhetoric will kill the case! Serious!! It is very unfortunate that a few are not able to see it that way.

Since, I have responded at length, it has rightfully or wrongfully earned the wrath of many. So, until pointed questions are addressed to me, I will get into my hermitage. God bless.
 
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I will need those letters and your affidavit

Originally posted by gc4health
I am not sure if the following points can be used for legal proceedings

1. Got rejected when I apply for a credit card, as I don't have GC and they don't recognize EADs/APs. ( Hudson Valley Federal Credit Union )

2. Got rejected, when applied for Mortage from one of the Lender as I am having the status of non-resident Alien



If needed I can supply the written rejections letters.


Please email me.
 
Re: Re: Hmmm-- My messages in a seperate thread.

Originally posted by dsatish
Rajiv,
I don't think that it's a good idea to post static messages in a thread. Let's continue the lively discussions we are having all these days. Once in a while, we see some arguments getting out of control and we can prevent it by your timely intervention or by deleting the useless postings.
Peace every one. Let us continue our normal discussions here.


The plan is to have a COPY of my messages. No need to remove them from ongoing discussions.
 
Re: Thanks Rajiv Khanna

Originally posted by poongunranar
..for the Shepardize that is pretty strong in the case-law to rule out mootness of the suit. I was able to see how the defendants were very eager to ride over the mootness of the plaintiffs to attentuate the cause of class-action. Seems like the case-law is pretty strong in this aspect.

I am currently outside the US and am trying to Shepardize a few points based on case-law. Especially in Ngwaniya V Ashcroft , US District Judge Hon'ble Richard Kyle had heavily come down upon the INS' bungling -- especially on the additional paperwork that is resulting as a result of annual work-permits. He minced no few words against the INS by lambasting heavily with the following terms: "Kafkaesque," "egregious," "plainly harmful." Hon'ble Justice Kyle had specifically blasted INS for not providing work-permits that are valid until the duration the asylee's petition is taken up for adjudication. Now, to my knowledge, am not sure, if there is any proviso that we can cite to further our case to have at least the work-permits and advance-paroles to be valid until the petition is adjudicated. He observed, "The law requires the government to grant a work permit automatically and to keep it valid as long as an asylee remains an asylee: 'not a minute shorter, and not a minute longer,' he thundered.

As many of the other friends in this forum have questioned the logic of FIFO, LIFO inconsistencies in processing, again the very same Judge blasted by observing, "I condemn the INS for the 'one-law-for-Tuesdays-and-another-law-for-Wednesdays' mismanagement, including practices that varied office-by-office and day-by-day." He even criticized the stealthy nature of INS' policy regarding issuance of work permits as it was never communicated to anyone in the field.

My two cents. I will take more time to offer my few more cents, for whatever it is worth with additional Shepardize. Thanks, once again.


:) That is a good decision. But there are legal variations. There was strong, statutory mandate against the govt.
 
Friday

I think I finished another class in Immigration Law and I will have homework to do for the weekend. A few points are worth noticing:

1: Assylee case and Judge Kyle, AILF, Wenstein, etc were researched very well months ago. The results were posted by myself in various threads.
Rajiv followed all these closely. Judge Robertson was also briefly researched back in November /December when people were having holidays, hibernated or were celebrating victory!
In fact all relevant cases were found and listed even before the filing of the lawsuit.

2: The "fact" that EB Immigrant visas were not fully allocated for 2002/2003 annually and most probably from 1998 was also researched and results with references were posted.

3: All relevant GAO reports, CRS reports, Inspector General reports relevant to Backlogs were found and posted.

This much for the "discussion". Plato and Socrates are good references especially when studied in Ancient Greek.
 
Cinta -- just shut up please

I am seeing the discussions for the past few days on this thread.Everybody has a right to write what they think is right. You keep attacking Mr.P directly on whatever he writes.I have read numerous posts of Mr.P and basically he is very good at providing an alternative opinion. At least I came to know about what kyle said in the asylum case after he wrote about it here not where you say or boast as you already did. Also is just saying about that case from his own view....he is not saying aaahhh here is a new case i found. If you can't digest him why don't you get out of the forum and leave us peacefully to read alternative opinions of everybody? If you feel that you have done all the analysis already then why don't you go and argue the case in court? Why do you show-off that you have already done everything and that recent opinions are worthless? You seem to think that you are the end of your own world. Since my own future hangs on this Class Action suit let me ask you to please SHUT UP. At least I have a right to read opinions of Mr.P and other respected members of TSC forum. At least I get a number of other tidbits from his classical writing touching philosophy and literature and he digresses a lot and writes interestingly. If they were only ancient references none of the lawyers or judges or psychologists would be studying about those 'ANCIENT' philosophies in order to become a legal professional or a psychologist etc. Come on give a break. You and your arguments seem too pathetic. The day you become a volunteer moderator am sure many will leave the forum. I am sure from what you have written out of jealousy that you probably have only heard the names like Plato and Socrates and have googled it to know that they were Greek. Good for you. And shut up. Don't play with my future and the class action suit. If you have problems with Mr.P deal with it in front of the mirror or write to him directly. There is a PM button that you can use.
 
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