Here is the Govt's Response to The complaint

Re: Re: Public law 106-313

Originally posted by poongunranar
Hello Edison, kindly allow me some time for me to peruse the same. My comments regarding BILLS Vs. OPINIONS Vs. OBITERS were to draw the attention of laypersons like you and me to the important distinction between what is law and what is not. That doesn't mean, that this case was filed merely on opinions. Sorry, if that was the impression gained. I will redact more of my opinions after I peruse the law you have posited. Thanks.

By this time, you took ALL OF MY MORNING after you have posted several ideas and wonders. At this point and only you realized IT IS A LAW and NOT A BILL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

We did our study from two years ago. Nobody is attacking you here. We are just replying, kindly.
However, It is my opinion that you need to do more READING than WRITING.
 
Some statistics

For people more interested in numbers, this Excel spreadsheet might help you:

For the first spreadsheet 485_02: the data is from sbctsublc weekly posting on I485 thread. Line 1 is the date of the scan, lines 2-13, every month in 2002, col B the total nr of cases, column D-M the number of touched (Approved, transf and withdr/denied). Line 16-17, are the Total and remaining cases for the whole year. For the last 3 scans because there was no update for Oct-Dec I used the same numbers. Line 19 shows the difference from the previous reading, or the pace of "touching" the cases. March 15 is higher because it has 2 weeks. As you can see the pattern is very similar despite the fact the belief that after H1 cap will be reached they will move the resourced to GC applic. Lines 21-34 have the same data but as a ratio=nr touched/total for each month/per scan. The ratio is plotted on the first chart to have the evolution of the process by month. If you want to see if there is a month where they gave priority as a nr of cases processed, look at lines 76-87, or Chart 2 - looks like Apr02 and Sept 02 has the highest nr of processed cases per week; this might be related with the fact that in this 2 months there were a higher nr of applications that in the other months. Chart 3 shows the evolution of the processed cases with different scanning (as a ratio) and Chart 4 the same thing but having the total nr of cases plotted in as the first column.

The second spreadsheet 485_03: I want to the same analysis but I don't have enough data, the guys doing the scan didn't post the data for 2003.

The third spreadsheet: EB_VSC_485: shows a chart with the evolution of the delay in time. Delay is defined by the difference between the time of the report from the USCIS Web site and the processing date from the report. Covers more than 2 years and shows how the delay increased in the last 2 years from 300 to 700 days with a small tendency to go in a plateau recently.

The forth spreadsheet: EB_VSC_140: shows the delay for 140 for different categories. I marked in red EB2 because I applied in this category. Things seem to improve for EB2,3,4 recently but still a long way to go back to normal.

The fifth spreadsheet: data from ImmigrationWatch.com, their last posting. Lines 1-20 the actual numbers, 24-42 the ratio. As you can see they are working in the area March-June 2003

The sixth spreadsheet: the same analysis for I485 from ImmigrationWatch.com in chart 1. Chart 2 has the number of I485 cases for each month, and chart 3 shows the number of completed (touched) in blue compared with total number of cases.

The seventh spreadsheet: source ImmigrationWatch.com - total nr of I140 per month - shows the evolutions of approvals per month in time (chart 1). Chart 2 is a different way to look to the same data but we can clearly see that they are working in March-June 03. Chart 3, again the same data but with the total nr of cases for comparison.

The eight spreadsheet: incomplete because of the lack of data. I will update when data will be available.

Hope that this spreadsheet helps with some numbers and to understand what the USCIS is doing. Definitively they increased their interest in 140 but no in 485 in the last month at least.
 
Re: Re: Questioning Jurisdiction cannot be arrogance!!

Originally posted by cinta
One thing I hate is when people mispell or mispronounce my name and I try to keep the same principle for the rest of the world. I believe it is "RAJIV".
Rajiv, being from Northern India is reverentially being addressed as RAJIVJI. One should not rush to judgments about mispellings/mispronouncements or even claiming that certain words do not exist in English (WHEREFORE)!!
 
Originally posted by dsatish
poongunranar,
I hate personal comments more than any one else. I don't think that i have made any personal comments. Ofcourse, while calling your arguments as hollow, i didn't give point by point refutation and this might have resulted in my comments as being seen as personal comments. The reason i haven't refuted arguments, point by point, is that i felt that there is absolutely no merit in any of them and secondly i don't have that much time. I, for one, never like to write 200 lines of posting just to refute 200 lines of blurred lines. Yes, i am definitely attacking your postings, and not you. Please understand that. Normally, i will be able to post in this forum in the evenings or nights. So, i will post a detailed reply to you in the evening.
I do not care if you have the time or capability to write 2 lines or 200 lines. That is your right and will. I do not care what you attack, especially when you cannot counter my arguments with solid facts at your disposal. It is not about personalities -- it is about facts.
 
Re: Re: Re: Public law 106-313

Originally posted by cinta
By this time, you took ALL OF MY MORNING after you have posted several ideas and wonders. At this point and only you realized IT IS A LAW and NOT A BILL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

We did our study from two years ago. Nobody is attacking you here. We are just replying, kindly.
However, It is my opinion that you need to do more READING than WRITING.
I respectfully dismiss your high-horsed personal suggestion to me. Kindly come down, Sire. Some of my viewpoints have been vindicated in Rajiv's humble response as well. You need to read my responses carefully, where I had discussed about bills and laws in general to which I had further clarified that I will specifically answer Edison's poser after perusing AC-21 to which he was alluding to. It is your figment of imagination that I was implying AC21 as a bill and not a law. As a Plaintiff of a couple of Civil Action Suits and appearing per se I have even won coveted plaudits from the Judge -- so I only care less to what you say. Cool! :)
 
Re: Re: Re: Questioning Jurisdiction cannot be arrogance!!

Originally posted by poongunranar
Rajiv, being from Northern India is reverentially being addressed as RAJIVJI. One should not rush to judgments about mispellings/mispronouncements or even claiming that certain words do not exist in English (WHEREFORE)!!

We are in the good old USA, not in Northern India...In a private conversation with the host you can use any variations. In this forum it is better to follow somebody's name as posted officially. I may have another ten nick names and variations because I am from whatever; that does not justify their being used by anybody in a public forum.
 
Originally posted by cinta
Are you providing a free Immigration Legal 101 course??
I am not qualified to as I am an Engineer(look at my caveat emptor in my signature file. I also usually do not make perfunctory postings with glib remarks.
 
Re: Re: Re: Re: Public law 106-313

Originally posted by poongunranar
I respectfully dismiss your high-horsed personal suggestion to me. Kindly come down, Sire. Some of my viewpoints have been vindicated in Rajiv's humble response as well. You need to read my responses carefully, where I had discussed about bills and laws in general to which I had further clarified that I will specifically answer Edison's poser after perusing AC-21 to which he was alluding to. It is your figment of imagination that I was implying AC21 as a bill and not a law. As a Plaintiff of a couple of Civil Action Suits and appearing per se I have even won coveted plaudits from the Judge -- so I only care less to what you say. Cool! :)

I would care less if you won a hundred civil suits. It is amazing how you jumped out of some hidden place to be our morning teacher. We do need your legal advice (at least not muself). I trust Rajiv in his judgement and wisdom as well as his team. There is a lot of room for a POSITIVE contribution. Certainly you have not done that and you should get the message, high-horsed or a donkey!
 
Re: Re: Re: Re: Questioning Jurisdiction cannot be arrogance!!

Originally posted by cinta
We are in the good old USA, not in Northern India...In a private conversation with the host you can use any variations. In this forum it is better to follow somebody's name as posted officially. I may have another ten nick names and variations because I am from whatever; that does not justify their being used by anybody in a public forum.
I summarily reject your diktat and thanks for reminding about my Geographic location. Will you go around the board and cleanse the Augean stables and remind every instance wherein people would have posted in their native linguistic phrase/salutation etc.? You should have better things to argue with me -- other than Rajiv Vs. Rajivji.
 
Re: Thank you all

Dear Mr. Rajiv,

Well said!! Yes..We need some more ledearship amongs us folks. More people to plan, organize, move!!!!.

Rajum,

I have sent an email long time back after NJ 1st meet and gave one contact name for you to contact..You haven't replied to my email yet..Please do so..

Others,

Please stop arguing each others and do some constructive work as per Mr. Rajiv's note..

Thank you!!


Originally posted by operations
I need every one's input. All view points including those I disgree with are welcome.

What does this all mean? Nothing. They could have drafted a more fair response and narrowed the controversy. They chose not to do so. This is their right as defendants. But I find it shameful that our government litigates in a manner calculated to waste the time of the courts rather than achieve justice.

Just because they deny facts or law does not alter either. If they wish to go to trial, we will line up the court with witnesses who can testify as to the harm suffered.

Agreed, they have strong legal arguments. the strongest one being the separation of powers - normally - court will not tell an agency how to run its business. Nevertless, it is upto the court to intervene or not. That is why we are here, in court.

What will we do? We will fight - win or lose. And as a community, we will never again be treated with disregard. We will try always to fight for the right cause - win or lose. It is the struggle that is important.

We must simultaneously approach Congress for help and not just fight on the judicial front.

The first big test in this litigation would be the determination on the class action. Let us see where that goes.

Hang tight. I will keep you informed.

We need some more ledearship amongs you folks. More people to plan, organize, move.

Just my two cents. My warmest regards to all of you.
 
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Public law 106-313

Originally posted by cinta
I would care less if you won a hundred civil suits. It is amazing how you jumped out of some hidden place to be our morning teacher. We do need your legal advice (at least not muself). I trust Rajiv in his judgement and wisdom as well as his team. There is a lot of room for a POSITIVE contribution. Certainly you have not done that and you should get the message, high-horsed or a donkey!
I condemn your indecent name-calling. I am a participant of TSC and I am not coming out of any hidden place. You may have posted in thousands elsewhere. But now I can guess with what type of stuff you may have reached that score. Kudos to you. Even I trust in Rajiv and the fact that he has broached many points that I had mentioned only shows his magnanimity and tolerance to views from the other side. Whether I have done positive contribution or baseless name-calling as you are indulging is for others to see. And my postings are here for everybody to evaluate and I care the least for your vilification.
 
Rajiv

Rajiv:

I had discussed about this in the TSC forum sometime ago. I predicted that in order to avoid the culpability arising out of this suit, INS may well adjudicate all the plaintiffs thereby making the suit moot. At least a few cases of the plaintiffs have been approved within the past few months. If this trend continues, the cause for Class-Action gets seriously undermined. Do you think the priority is to first get the case admitted as Class-Action, so that the approval or pending of the plaintiff's applications becomes moot to our interests?

Also, as a lawyer, I am sure you appreciate that POSITIVE contribution means not merely venting out or singing cymbals of sycophancy. Rather, it is mostly appreciated in legal attack/defense that failure to prepare is preparing to fail. I hope my views on the flip-side of the coin would help bolster the points you will muster to counter the counter-claim filed by the defendants. Thanks for steering the efforts and good luck
 
Re: Rajiv

Let direct our angry to the right place. Everyone can post, right or wrong. That's why we need professional attorney like Rajiv.

BTW, I think the class certification is a key now.

Originally posted by poongunranar
Rajiv:

I had discussed about this in the TSC forum sometime ago. I predicted that in order to avoid the culpability arising out of this suit, INS may well adjudicate all the plaintiffs thereby making the suit moot. At least a few cases of the plaintiffs have been approved within the past few months. If this trend continues, the cause for Class-Action gets seriously undermined. Do you think the priority is to first get the case admitted as Class-Action, so that the approval or pending of the plaintiff's applications becomes moot to our interests?

Also, as a lawyer, I am sure you appreciate that POSITIVE contribution means not merely venting out or singing cymbals of sycophancy. Rather, it is mostly appreciated in legal attack/defense that failure to prepare is preparing to fail. I hope my views on the flip-side of the coin would help bolster the points you will muster to counter the counter-claim filed by the defendants. Thanks for steering the efforts and good luck
 
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Public law 106-313

Originally posted by poongunranar
I condemn your indecent name-calling. I am a participant of TSC and I am not coming out of any hidden place. You may have posted in thousands elsewhere. But now I can guess with what type of stuff you may have reached that score. Kudos to you. Even I trust in Rajiv and the fact that he has broached many points that I had mentioned only shows his magnanimity and tolerance to views from the other side. Whether I have done positive contribution or baseless name-calling as you are indulging is for others to see. And my postings are here for everybody to evaluate and I care the least for your vilification.

It looks like you do not understand and you are only interested in your self-satisfaction.
If you have legal advice you can send PRIVATE messages to the Host and explain your points. People in these forums may not have the same legal knowledge as you may think you do. People here need to be guided and galvanized towards a goal, win or lose. By posting all these and still supporting all of your views you look like an imposter to the average viewer; and we need everyone and all the viewers. If you want to help the Host or all then you examine all the points, not only the AC-21 but the DHS Act and the Federal Administrative Procedure Act and others; Then you guide us through the "what is possible to achieve" and not your baseless arguments in the legal domain..
By just filing the Lawsuit, we have already won. This is my argument even if we lose. Judiciary is only one branch. Our fight extends to the Executive branch and the Legislature branch. There are ample examples of lawsuits WON already. That is a good starting point. The lawsuit by itself is just one route to follow. Courts are there to fill the VOIDS ALSO in a lot of cases.
In summary, even if you have valid points the PRESENTATION and TIMING and PLACE are important as well. No name calling no chatter either.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
cinta

If the case was dismissed, I will accept what you say. The case is still sub judice. A counter has been filed. A rejoinder to the counter will have to be filed by Rajiv. While others were venting their fury at what seems to be irresponsible counter on the part of INS, I am trying to say that it is all normal in the legal process. By pointing to the legal grounds INS has, I am equipping Rajiv and whoever is preparing the rejoinder to be adequately prepared.

So, if you are not aware of the legal process, kindly do lay off. I know when to post private messages. By your attaks without any merits on facts, I am afraid you are portraying yourself to be more of an imposter than me. When the case comes to trial, I will be arguing more in attack mode against the defendants because that will be the appropriate time. Now is not the time for trial. Now, a counter rejoinder disputing the claims have to be filed by Rajiv. My viewpoints are very timely and certainly on track with what needs to be accomplished. As I said, I am sanguine about my discussions here -- just take them to your attorney and tell me where I am wrong. Until then, I am afraid your arguments are being made with malafide intentions.

Let us get it right. As I said before -- it is not about personalities -- it is about facts. Just forget about me and attack my arguments with a sound legal basis. By doing so you are strengthening the case. By not doing so, you are attentuating the case. The choice is yours and ours.
 
cinta, edison, dsatish,poongunranar... please calm down, we will not have any discussion if we do name calling and pointing out irrelevant things in each others postiings. We need to know both sides of the case so that we can make a stronger case, Mr, poongunranar himself pointed out that he is also a sufferer in this delay.

From what I see, whatever Mr.poongunranar has been trying to say is the counter arguements of BCIS in more details with whatever legal knowledge he has. I personally think whatever inputs Mr poongunranar is trying to give are valid within his framework of knowledge.. I wish Mr poongunranar was here when this case related discussion was intially started around in November-December. Because that way Mr poongunranar would have known how long discussions there were about this case, also, may be at that time Mr poongunranar would have helped us known that this case does or does not have its merits and we would have planned accordingly.
 
By now. Mr poongunranar, you may have known that we are not talking about a bill but a law..

If this is accepted by court and goes to trial but still BCIS says that they are trying but cannot guarantee that they can adjuducate the cases in 180 days because of security and whatever useless reason they have, then all we are asking through court is to alteast to get some kind of temprary relief as given below in the thread. http://boards.immigrationportal.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=114165

There are innumerable # of members in this board, including yourself and myself who can prove in the court that we are facing hardships due to this delay, don't you agree ?

By the way did you check out the excel sheet attached in one the posts here which gives the proof that shows the decrease in % of approvals over time ? it cannot be due to increase in # of applications, because % of applications year of year has been increasing since the inception of green card.

I don't know if the following is a valid point, but we are paying for service, and then don't you think we should expect the service accordingly ?. For ex, if you are paying for a house and if asks to confirm every year by paying $10,000 that you are still in the deal .The house owner promises on his website and reciept that he will give the house in 300-450 days(The congress passes a law saying that the seller is supposed to sell in actually 180 days). But even after 2-3-5 years if he says he is trying but don't know when he will give because whatever reasons. In the meanwhile, if he asks to renew the deal by paying another $10,000 every year till he actually gives it to you, what do you do ? who is responsible ?.

Here is where we want the temporary relief for the fellow suffereres, for eg, like in the above example, we as plaintiffs in this lawsuit don't know whatever reasons you have as the seller of the houses, but atleast allow us to stay in the house, don't ask every year from us to renew by paying $10,000, etc//

I don't know if I tried to make my point but, that what I feel is required by most of the members in the end.. a TEMPORARY RELIEF !!

Do you now see why the response by the defendents(BCIS) here is not being well taken by the members in the discussion here ? and why I pointed out those points(41 and 42) below ?

Anyway, can you based on your legal expertise, let us know if we have a case or not, and if we do, what would you do presently to increase our chances in winning this lawsuit..

your comments are appreciated, at least by me..

Originally posted by poongunranar
Even a bill has no effect in a court of law. It is a court of law. It is never a court of bills or court of opinions. That much said, the defendant can deny any of the opinions which in legal lingua will be treated as hearsay. In re (41) can you provide an INA Act and Section/Sub-Section number of the statute? Clearly the answer is NO. Hence they were able to deny that.

In re to (42), the defendants have a stronger ground to deny. The definition of reasonableness is the key to the defendants' rejection and the plaintiffs' assertion. The court will be hardpressed to define the term reasonableness so that it is reasonable to both the parties. That is why, wherever, there are no clear legal statutes, the defendants can clearly reply in the negative.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
Volunteers for ImmigrationPortal.org

Volunteers for ImmigrationPortal.org


TO ALL,

I request everyone to focus on the steps ahead. As Rajiv mentioned let's get more volunteers and organize our team for all the efforts we need to address in the near future. I understand that most of you are aware of the activities of the Core action team members of this portal which ultimately led us to form an organization immigrationportal.org .
ImmigrationPortal.ORG intend to voice the concerns of immigrant community and help contribute towards legal immigration reform in the United States of America.

I request all the interested members to join our team as volunteers. Please post your thoughts and interest in the below mentioned thread (ImmigrationPortal.org Forum).

Volunteers for ImmigrationPortal.org
http://boards.immigration.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=120377



Thanks for supporting the immigrant community.

 
Focus your energies on what to do next

cinta, edison, dsatish,poongunranar

Please save your energies to fight the adversaries. You guys are a team. Exchange your views in brief, if qualified, and present the viewpoints to Rajiv so that we can present a solid counter to the USCIS.

So kindly use lesser words and no personal attacks please. Get the maximum out of everyone’s knowledge and experience. But, in the end, remember we are victims not lawyers. We have been so much victimized by USCIS that our opinion is very much influenced. Let Rajiv work on a legally acceptable counter to USCIS’s response while you help him with small, to the point, compelling arguments.

Thanks.
 
Top