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CEAC Data Up to 02-02-2014

Welcome My Friend,
Good reasoning as on the other forum

Thanks man ;) ... it was my first comment... amazing because I've been following this forum since last June....reading ... reading..... always reading....... and then it starts to be very stressful :mad: .... can't only read.... I needed to say something ....I'll try to make a good contribution of course.... hopefully :)
 
Thanks man ;) ... it was my first comment... amazing because I've been following this forum since last June....reading ... reading..... always reading....... and then it starts to be very stressful :mad: .... can't only read.... I needed to say something ....I'll try to make a good contribution of course.... hopefully :)

Well your first post was agreeing with me - so well done - obviously a man of great insight! :p

Welcome!
 
Some people believe that they will all get to a hard stop per region (the predetermined quota on visa allocations) but I think there might be some fluidity about visa issued quotas and that the quotas are enforced initially by the selectee count (the theory you dissed!). However, this year will be a good (but sad) test of that theory. EU is in the lead at the moment (in terms of progress through the selectee pool), and if that were to stay that way then in theory EU might hit the brick wall first - and we would see a cutoff number that doesn't increase, or perhaps an announcement in the VB.
They specifically disperse Europe, then to hit a brick wall hurt.:D
It's much easier. Europe gets more visas.
 
(...) Venezuela is the big country in SA region - and their desire of the last 5 years or so has represented the lions share of the SA visa issuances. If you know anything about the political and economic situation in Venezuela you will understand. So when someone in Venezuela has the chance to emigrate - believe me, they are not pondering what to do in the same way that a winner in Sydney might do...

I endorse that! Actually tons of people from Venezuela is emigrating TO SYDNEY!!! Venezuelans are going everywhere they can. You can see that desire to emigrate just by looking at the stats that show how many venezuelans have applied for dv lottery in the last years.

Regards! And thank you for understand us venezuelan people, Britjustin ;)
 
I endorse that! Actually tons of people from Venezuela is emigrating TO SYDNEY!!! Venezuelans are going everywhere they can. You can see that desire to emigrate just by looking at the stats that show how many venezuelans have applied for dv lottery in the last years.

Regards! And thank you for understand us venezuelan people, Britjustin ;)

Jajajaja Vero - I'm sure I have a little latino blood....
 
Jajajaja Vero - I'm sure I have a little latino blood....

Well, we will confirm that at the WE GOT OUR GC party that will be held at Six Flags hahahahahahahahahahaha... Just kidding. But get ready to prove it by dancing a little bit of salsa!
 
I endorse that! Actually tons of people from Venezuela is emigrating TO SYDNEY!!! Venezuelans are going everywhere they can. You can see that desire to emigrate just by looking at the stats that show how many venezuelans have applied for dv lottery in the last years.

Regards! And thank you for understand us venezuelan people, Britjustin ;)
I personnaly saw lot of portuguese people that left venezuella after living there for many year !
No offence but all of them said to me that they didnt like shavez policy!
 
I personnaly saw lot of portuguese people that left venezuella after living there for many year !
No offence but all of them said to me that they didnt like shavez policy!

No offense taken! I don't like his policy, politics, economics, legacy... I don't even like that he ever existed!!! And the "heir to the throne" is even worst!!! (and by the way, I'm scared because I said that, that can get me in real troubles!) Don't forget to check venezuelans applications for dv lottery from last years and compare them with this year's when they become available... you'll be amazed!!! I promise!
 
Veronice i will not quote you because you will want to edit your post for incase !
Just wanna say that i agree with you 100% :)
 
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No offense taken! I don't like his policy, politics, economics, legacy... I don't even like that he ever existed!!! And the "heir to the throne" is even worst!!! (and by the way, I'm scared because I said that, that can get me in real troubles!) Don't forget to check venezuelans applications for dv lottery from last years and compare them with this year's when they become available... you'll be amazed!!! I promise!

This is a point I was trying to make in another thread... People from Europe, Australia etc talk about things like shopping in the US as what attracts them.. For so many people it represents the chance for a fundamentally safer, free life .. Hope you are successful Veronice.
 
This is a point I was trying to make in another thread... People from Europe, Australia etc talk about things like shopping in the US as what attracts them.. For so many people it represents the chance for a fundamentally safer, free life .. Hope you are successful Veronice.

I hope that too :p Thank you, SusieQQQ!!! You can't imagine how many of my friends are deciding to leave every single day. Just yesterday, 4 moms from my baby's classroom (20 kids/classroom) told me they are going to another country after school's end. And I haven't told them I'm leaving too (bc I don't know yet)
 
"BUT I would have to say yours is totally incorrect. SORRY. ;-)"

Hi Simon,

You must have been talking to my wife - I hear that all the time!

Let me try to back off a little as I was convinced that I had been able to derive 'new information'; but it doesn't seem to be working.
First of all let me get the emotional bit out of the way. I dearly want OC to have 3%. If not 3%, ok 2% would be nice. But, deep in my heart, I suspect that 2% sounds high. If my message indicates that it doesn't look like being that high, it is certainly a blow I would rather not be delivering. It is tense enough round here as it is.

Back to basics on how the allocations between Regions are arrived at. You say that visa quotas have NOTHING to do with Population. I regret that doesn't ring true. The method of allocation between regions is specified by law and can be easily read in FAM 42.33 instructions. Transliterating, what is specified is that the Attorney-General (no less) must using set criteria identify the 'high admission countries' and kick them out of the analysis. (We all know the high admission countries, the manual requires them to be promulgated.) Then [quoting the manual] 'the Attorney General must then determine the population of each of the six regions (excluding the population of any high admission foreign state) and use those totals to determine the apportionment of the 55,000 worldwide DV limitations. Quotas for the six regions will be established'.

Using publically available figures and the above rules, I calculate the resultant 'world population' after removing those high admission countries (and the US) is about 3300 million. SA (after removing high admission countries) is about 120 [call it 3%] OC at 38m is 1.2%.

Quite candidly, if SA and OC were ever to receive exactly the same quota, the screams from Latino Senators/Representatives would reach Kentucky. (After all, this whole DV thing only exists because of the screams of Irish-descended Senators.)

I guess that is my starting point.

Next, we both know that OC and SA have been receiving (almost exactly) the same number of selectees per year. Hence there must be another 'picking mechanism' at work to make sure that the Attorney General is not breaking the law. One such mechanism would be to run OC at 1.5% [we're dealing with bureaucrats here so rounding is allowed] and SA at 3% - and that would come out close enough to be defendable at congressional hearings. I suspect that you would object to that and stick with 2%/2% for OC/SA and I am not trying to argue you out of that position; but I, myself, cannot find any objective basis to justify it.

The next thing I came across was the recent CEAC data; loved it and, yes, I have statistics qualifications. And using such analysis, the data are telling me that OC is running at 1.5% and SA and 3%. That's the message in the data, I'm just the messenger.

.... and, you know, those 1.5% and 3% figures just kinda keep popping up, don't they?

And another thing I learned from the CEAC data is just how brilliantly someone is managing the monthly CN cut-offs to keep the statistics aligned so closely; it sure isn't happening by magic.

Finally let me note and accept your criticism of the 'data set'; I have even deeper misgivings with some of the data. But we are trained to work with that (after all it is probability). And we now have (grossly) 50% of the data as our sample. I can assure you that the Actuaries who priced your house and car insurance had nothing like this quality of data. And, I guess - and hope - you paid the premium - despite their crappy data sets.

So let me leave it there and, perhaps, agree to disagree.
But in doing that, wise men navigating in uncharted waters - like Chris Columbus, who started this whole adventure - prudently keep a weather eye out for the unexpected.
We both just might be counselled to do that.

Cheers.
 
"BUT I would have to say yours is totally incorrect. SORRY. ;-)"

Hi Simon,

You must have been talking to my wife - I hear that all the time!

Let me try to back off a little as I was convinced that I had been able to derive 'new information'; but it doesn't seem to be working.
First of all let me get the emotional bit out of the way. I dearly want OC to have 3%. If not 3%, ok 2% would be nice. But, deep in my heart, I suspect that 2% sounds high. If my message indicates that it doesn't look like being that high, it is certainly a blow I would rather not be delivering. It is tense enough round here as it is.

Back to basics on how the allocations between Regions are arrived at. You say that visa quotas have NOTHING to do with Population. I regret that doesn't ring true. The method of allocation between regions is specified by law and can be easily read in FAM 42.33 instructions. Transliterating, what is specified is that the Attorney-General (no less) must using set criteria identify the 'high admission countries' and kick them out of the analysis. (We all know the high admission countries, the manual requires them to be promulgated.) Then [quoting the manual] 'the Attorney General must then determine the population of each of the six regions (excluding the population of any high admission foreign state) and use those totals to determine the apportionment of the 55,000 worldwide DV limitations. Quotas for the six regions will be established'.

Using publically available figures and the above rules, I calculate the resultant 'world population' after removing those high admission countries (and the US) is about 3300 million. SA (after removing high admission countries) is about 120 [call it 3%] OC at 38m is 1.2%.

Quite candidly, if SA and OC were ever to receive exactly the same quota, the screams from Latino Senators/Representatives would reach Kentucky. (After all, this whole DV thing only exists because of the screams of Irish-descended Senators.)

I guess that is my starting point.

Next, we both know that OC and SA have been receiving (almost exactly) the same number of selectees per year. Hence there must be another 'picking mechanism' at work to make sure that the Attorney General is not breaking the law. One such mechanism would be to run OC at 1.5% [we're dealing with bureaucrats here so rounding is allowed] and SA at 3% - and that would come out close enough to be defendable at congressional hearings. I suspect that you would object to that and stick with 2%/2% for OC/SA and I am not trying to argue you out of that position; but I, myself, cannot find any objective basis to justify it.

The next thing I came across was the recent CEAC data; loved it and, yes, I have statistics qualifications. And using such analysis, the data are telling me that OC is running at 1.5% and SA and 3%. That's the message in the data, I'm just the messenger.

.... and, you know, those 1.5% and 3% figures just kinda keep popping up, don't they?

And another thing I learned from the CEAC data is just how brilliantly someone is managing the monthly CN cut-offs to keep the statistics aligned so closely; it sure isn't happening by magic.

Finally let me note and accept your criticism of the 'data set'; I have even deeper misgivings with some of the data. But we are trained to work with that (after all it is probability). And we now have (grossly) 50% of the data as our sample. I can assure you that the Actuaries who priced your house and car insurance had nothing like this quality of data. And, I guess - and hope - you paid the premium - despite their crappy data sets.

So let me leave it there and, perhaps, agree to disagree.
But in doing that, wise men navigating in uncharted waters - like Chris Columbus, who started this whole adventure - prudently keep a weather eye out for the unexpected.
We both just might be counselled to do that.

Cheers.


Back at you with a quote for a start.

"b. INA 203(c)(1)(A) (8 U.S.C. 1153(c)(1)(A)) requires the Attorney General to
determine the actual number of immigrant admissions from each foreign
country for the previous five year period. The formula identifies both high and
low admission regions and high and low admission foreign states. A greater
share of the available visa numbers goes to low admission regions. High
admission states are excluded from the program. "

The point is - this is a diversity lottery program. They specifically set out their target to get immigrants from low admission regions. I probably shouldn't say population has nothing to do with it, but the point is that it is ultimately governed by admissions. If it were governed by population then India and China would be getting most of the visas. Population does in some sense affect the pool, but doesn't have the level of control you seem to think - so yep - we will agree to disagree.

The links I already gave you show that historically OC and SA have received largely similar visa numbers (excluding Peru which became ineligible in 2008) and largely similar selectee numbers. SA tends to yield more visas per thousand (because of the desire factor I mentioned), so it is for sure that they will get more this year again - larger selectee quota and higher return rates.
 
Thanks Simon,
And OK, I see now what you have been relying upon - though your use of the India and China example is not accurate; the AG would have already excluded them under the high admissions country rule. As I am sure you know.

But I am struggling to make the statement 'A greater share of .. numbers go to low admission regions' with the requirement that 'the AG MUST [their words] determine the population of ..each..region and use those totals to determine the apportionment'

Wait, I think I've go it! If the AG follows the second clause to the very letter and allocates exactly on population - as it says he MUST; I think it follows (given the exclusion of high admission states) that such an allocation would meet the requirement that 'A greater share of .. numbers go to low admission regions'

In short, the greater share going to low admission regions is a consequence of applying the specified population formula - not the starting point.

However, it's a long day and, I'll think on that a little harder and need time to prove (at least to myself) the above logic.

Best
 
Thanks Simon,
And OK, I see now what you have been relying upon - though your use of the India and China example is not accurate; the AG would have already excluded them under the high admissions country rule. As I am sure you know.

But I am struggling to make the statement 'A greater share of .. numbers go to low admission regions' with the requirement that 'the AG MUST [their words] determine the population of ..each..region and use those totals to determine the apportionment'

Wait, I think I've go it! If the AG follows the second clause to the very letter and allocates exactly on population - as it says he MUST; I think it follows (given the exclusion of high admission states) that such an allocation would meet the requirement that 'A greater share of .. numbers go to low admission regions'

In short, the greater share going to low admission regions is a consequence of applying the specified population formula - not the starting point.

However, it's a long day and, I'll think on that a little harder and need time to prove (at least to myself) the above logic.

Best

Yes, low admission regions get a helping hand - again - with the goal of diversity.

By the way, I get a mental image of a keen amateur statistician and newly qualified pilot who is about to crash his plane on the first solo flight. He reasoned that, statistically, it shouldn't be happening, but he forgot to check if the plane had fuel.

You can do all the statistical analysis you like, but don't forget to take a look at what has been happening in the past (the links I gave you).
 
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Hi CollingwoodRuck, Simon

Isn't Low/High admission region/state about number of all immigrants in the last five years including all visa categories?
 
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