The disposition only helps you if it's not quilty. And that would be the only document you would need in your case .
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Arrested after the citizenship interview but before oath ceremony.
- Thread starter CyrusImmig
- Start date
CyrusImmig
New Member
If hypothetically I have a bench trial today and they find me not guilty, how many days does it take for them to issue me a disposition? could it be done on the same day? I am asking because my case is time-sensitive.The disposition only helps you if it's not quilty. And that would be the only document you would need in your case .
I also called for info pass appointment and unfortunately, they did not accept giving it to me.
CyrusImmig
New Member
Ok so I got my case dismissed (failure to persecute).
I requested for a hearing because my N400 was denied. I filed the N336 application. Does anyone have any experience of how long this process may take? I have no idea what else I should be prepared for!
I requested for a hearing because my N400 was denied. I filed the N336 application. Does anyone have any experience of how long this process may take? I have no idea what else I should be prepared for!
CalGreenCard
Registered Users (C)
Ok so I got my case dismissed (failure to persecute).
I requested for a hearing because my N400 was denied. I filed the N336 application. Does anyone have any experience of how long this process may take? I have no idea what else I should be prepared for!
I personally think it makes more sense to just apply again from scratch. If you file N-336 you are basically saying that they made a mistake in denying you. If at the time they denied you, they didn't know the disposition of your criminal case, then it is hard to argue they denied you unfairly. A new application with the new information of the dismissal of the criminal case will have a better chance of success.
CalGreenCard
Registered Users (C)
If on the day of Oath I do not reveal it to the officer, would they still find out automatically or do a regular background check to find out about my arrest?
My answer to this question is no longer timely, as you've now moved on from the original situation and are currently working with a denial of the N-400 but the dismissal of the arrest. However just to answer if anyone else has a similar question:
There is a final N-445 form that you need to fill out and hand in at the oath ceremony that asks about arrests after the interview but before the oath. I don't know how many last minute background checks USCIS does before doing the oath. If you lied on N-445 it is possible that you'd get away with it in the short term, especially if the time between the arrest and the oath was brief. However your naturalization would then technically not be valid (you had to lie to get it) and you'd be looking over your shoulder for the rest of your life wondering if you might be denaturalized at any time.
Far better to do as you are doing and work through the criminal case, and sort things out w/USCIS once you can honestly report the outcome of the criminal case.
CyrusImmig
New Member
Thank you, as I mentioned, I have already filed the N336 and my question is how long it takes for them to give me a hearing session?I personally think it makes more sense to just apply again from scratch. If you file N-336 you are basically saying that they made a mistake in denying you. If at the time they denied you, they didn't know the disposition of your criminal case, then it is hard to argue they denied you unfairly. A new application with the new information on the dismissal of the criminal case will have a better chance of success.
You are probably right about applying again but at the time I was thinking that N336 is a faster solution. My disposition literally came three weeks after the denial! I know it is not their mistake but it was not mine either. I was 100% innocent when they arrested me and I find it unfair if they deny an application without waiting for the final court decision. Basically they violated the rule "innocent until proved otherwise"!
CalGreenCard
Registered Users (C)
It appears based on the following website that a few months is reasonable to expect for the N-336 appear. Of course this article is from a few years ago when immigration was a bit easier:
N-336 Successful Naturalization Application
As for whether you should appeal or file a new case, I would still say you are better off filing a new case. I don't believe that one precludes the other so you can still file a new N-400. If an attorney does advise you that filing N-336 is the best course of action, of course I will defer to that attorney's judgment.
I'm sure you are aware of this, but "innocent until proven guilty", while true under certain circumstances, isn't universally true in all situations. Simply being arrested--even without immigration complications--has consequences like having to post bail, having restrictions placed on you, etc. However the way it is, in theory, supposed to work seems to be that whichever party seeks to change the status quo has the burden of proof.
So in the case of the criminal case, it was the prosecution that wanted to change the status quo, by punishing you for something you had not been proven guilty of as yet. So the prosecution had the burden of proof--and evidently that was a bar they weren't in a position to clear, as they dropped the case.
In the naturalization case, though, it is you who are trying to change the status quo (from green card holder to citizen). So you bear the burden of proof. USCIS is simply saying that you didn't meet that burden--not that you'll never qualify to naturalize. In the case I quoted above, USCIS seems to have made multiple very clear errors in denying the naturalization, and so an appeal by a competent attorney was necessary to keep them honest (or get them honest if they weren't honest to start with). I'm not sure that I see similar errors in your situation. The difference between the outcome of the two cases (the criminal case and the naturalization case) seems to have primarily been one of the burden of proof. In the criminal case, the government bore the burden of proof, but in the naturalization case, you bore the burden of proof.
N-336 Successful Naturalization Application
As for whether you should appeal or file a new case, I would still say you are better off filing a new case. I don't believe that one precludes the other so you can still file a new N-400. If an attorney does advise you that filing N-336 is the best course of action, of course I will defer to that attorney's judgment.
I'm sure you are aware of this, but "innocent until proven guilty", while true under certain circumstances, isn't universally true in all situations. Simply being arrested--even without immigration complications--has consequences like having to post bail, having restrictions placed on you, etc. However the way it is, in theory, supposed to work seems to be that whichever party seeks to change the status quo has the burden of proof.
So in the case of the criminal case, it was the prosecution that wanted to change the status quo, by punishing you for something you had not been proven guilty of as yet. So the prosecution had the burden of proof--and evidently that was a bar they weren't in a position to clear, as they dropped the case.
In the naturalization case, though, it is you who are trying to change the status quo (from green card holder to citizen). So you bear the burden of proof. USCIS is simply saying that you didn't meet that burden--not that you'll never qualify to naturalize. In the case I quoted above, USCIS seems to have made multiple very clear errors in denying the naturalization, and so an appeal by a competent attorney was necessary to keep them honest (or get them honest if they weren't honest to start with). I'm not sure that I see similar errors in your situation. The difference between the outcome of the two cases (the criminal case and the naturalization case) seems to have primarily been one of the burden of proof. In the criminal case, the government bore the burden of proof, but in the naturalization case, you bore the burden of proof.
In your Instructions of the N336 App
It says you must file within 30 Days of the receiving the denial letter , if not filed within a timely manner "30 days" the application wouldn't be accepted. Judging from your post its well over 2 months since you got that denial letter .
Seems as though the best route for you is to file a new N400 Application .
It says you must file within 30 Days of the receiving the denial letter , if not filed within a timely manner "30 days" the application wouldn't be accepted. Judging from your post its well over 2 months since you got that denial letter .
Seems as though the best route for you is to file a new N400 Application .
CyrusImmig
New Member
I filed it within the one-month deadline after the official denial letter. I just posted things late in this forum.In your Instructions of the N336 App
It says you must file within 30 Days of the receiving the denial letter , if not filed within a timely manner "30 days" the application wouldn't be accepted. Judging from your post its well over 2 months since you got that denial letter .
Seems as though the best route for you is to file a new N400 Application.
Do you think there is still hope? Because apparently N336 is only acceptable when they have made a mistake which they did not because I really could not provide my disposition on time!
Do you recommend filing another N400 while my N336 is being processed?
CyrusImmig
New Member
Thanks for spending time answering my questions. Yes, it is not their fault rejecting my N400. In N336 hearing (If hopefully they even approve giving me a hearing) can I argue that I just needed to buy some time to keep my case open until the court grants me the disposition?It appears based on the following website that a few months is reasonable to expect for the N-336 appear. Of course this article is from a few years ago when immigration was a bit easier:
N-336 Successful Naturalization Application
.
If N336 success is solely based on the USCIS mistakes on rejecting N400, then yes probably they deny N336 as well which makes me upset really.
Yes that would be the best course of action .Do you recommend filing another N400 while my N336 is being processed?
The initial denial seems justified and I can't see that being overruled.
CyrusImmig
New Member
Hi Jebuff,Yes that would be the best course of action.
The initial denial seems justified and I can't see that being overruled.
It has been almost a year since I posted anything here.
I followed your advice. Not only I filed for N336, but I also filed for a new N400 in 2019. They fingerprinted me about a month later.
I also got my disposition letter from the court and attached it with my N400. I also send another stamped copy of the disposition to update my N336.
Right before the pandemic lockdowns, they scheduled a hearing for my N336. The evening before the hearing I received a call that it has been canceled. They told me it is not because of a pandemic. It is because of the lack of some documents from the USCIS center sending to the hearing court. They denied answering which document!
Since then I have sent four letters to them. Aksing for updates. All they respond is to update the online account with a sentence: "An interview has been scheduled" and you will receive a letter! Since the end of July, they write this. Every time I send a letter they just update the sentence with the date. Not the date of the interview but the date that the person enters the same note!
At first, I thought it is because of my change of address but I updated my address as well via letter and filing forms online.
Do you know what are my options? These N336 cases shouldn't be taken care of within 6 months according to law?
Also no update from my N400 and it seems this time a new center in another state is investigating my N400 concurrently with my N336!
Sorry for the long post. It has been a year.
Thank you
CyrusImmig
New Member
Anyone is active in this thread?
Pertaining to the N336 hearing? From research what I've found even though the time line is 180 days it does take longer and with the Pandemic its almost impossible to get a definite answer , do remember at the time of your Denial it was well justified as you didn't have an outcome to your then pending case .Since then I have sent four letters to them. Aksing for updates. All they respond is to update the online account with a sentence: "An interview has been scheduled" and you will receive a letter! Since the end of July, they write this. Every time I send a letter they just update the sentence with the date. Not the date of the interview but the date that the person enters the same note!
I waited almost year before to get an interview and this was before Covid 19 . All I'm saying is you're gonna have to be a little more patient . With your Situation being Unique with the N336 and N400 being filed at the same time . You might want an Attorney but like I said being that the world is upside down right now , I doubt an attorney can speed anything u. You have the Disposition in hand which was the only obstacle at the time preventing you from a successful N400Also no update from my N400 and it seems this time a new center in another state is investigating my N400 concurrently with my N336!
CyrusImmig
New Member
First of all, it is good to hear from you with all the things going on with this country and the world.
Yes, you are right it takes 180 days. Right before the pandemic, they scheduled a "hearing" and they canceled it a night before. They specifically mentioned that the cancellation is not due to pandemic but because of a lack of certain documents that USCIS had to provide to the court which they did not mention exactly what document!
After 3 months when I sent letters asking for updates, they updated on the website "Interview scheduled". The first thing that confuses me is that why do they call it "interview" rather than "hearing"?!
If the denial is justified, then why don't they simply say your N336 is denied rather than all of this hassle! I really feel I am in limbo.
I think you are right. I should probably be more patient. What bothers me is that they do not communicate! If they send a letter telling me I have to wait for another six months, that would better than me being confused.
If I knew an attorney could do something I would certainly do it.
Just in case, do you know if these cases go to federal courts?
Yes, you are right it takes 180 days. Right before the pandemic, they scheduled a "hearing" and they canceled it a night before. They specifically mentioned that the cancellation is not due to pandemic but because of a lack of certain documents that USCIS had to provide to the court which they did not mention exactly what document!
After 3 months when I sent letters asking for updates, they updated on the website "Interview scheduled". The first thing that confuses me is that why do they call it "interview" rather than "hearing"?!
If the denial is justified, then why don't they simply say your N336 is denied rather than all of this hassle! I really feel I am in limbo.
I think you are right. I should probably be more patient. What bothers me is that they do not communicate! If they send a letter telling me I have to wait for another six months, that would better than me being confused.
If I knew an attorney could do something I would certainly do it.
Just in case, do you know if these cases go to federal courts?
Pertaining to the N336 hearing? From research what I've found even though the time line is 180 days it does take longer and with the Pandemic its almost impossible to get a definite answer , do remember at the time of your Denial it was well justified as you didn't have an outcome to your then pending case .
I waited almost year before to get an interview and this was before Covid 19 . All I'm saying is you're gonna have to be a little more patient . With your Situation being Unique with the N336 and N400 being filed at the same time . You might want an Attorney but like I said being that the world is upside down right now , I doubt an attorney can speed anything u. You have the Disposition in hand which was the only obstacle at the time preventing you from a successful N400