* * * Why Do we need GC ??

Ahmeri,

You have forgot to mention one more problem that India faces. We have lot of people who can give all day long lectures but do very little in substance.

you talked about unemployment.....poverty .....illiteracy.....corruption etc etc

To How many people in your family,relatives, close friends you have stressed the importance of birth control ???????
 
I agree with you on some aspect...

I agree we all have our point of views, which are equally as important then others.

But what I would really like to stress upon is, even if whatever you say is correct. Which no one has any contention accepting, then why US??? Should you already not be in India??? If we are so skeptical about US, then why give a damn about US. Don't you think it is slightly double standard? I hate to admit and entertain any point of view on the subject some of which are, we will stay here for 3 yrs and 5 yrs and then leave. If the conviction about India is so strong then it is a no brainer, sooner the better!!!! Right!!! the fact that we all have an ID on immigration.com\485 section goes on to prove the intensity of hypocrisy!!!

The question is not of a Kashmir or a Punjab or a Gujarat. The question is of criminalization of Indian constitution and its judiciary.
What happened at these places is much-much more ironical because it is done with the help (yes help) of state machinery in a clinically precise manner!!!

And please when I say Indian (I mean the whole subcontinent). I named these controversial places because everyone has a perspective about them, I must apologize if I offended anyone in any regard.

4-5K is something, which I know first hand. I can send you contact information of enumerable fresh engineers and other professional graduates (MBA) etc who have either passed through this and/or are passing through this humiliation as we speak. This is a sore truth, life is not as rosy in places like Bihar, Orissa, Assam, South India (some parts) as potrayed by the main stream media.

Not every place is a Delhi or a Mumbai. There are towns, cities and places where getting 2 square meals a day means menial drudgery in sweltering heat. Most of the people who come abroad have had the luxury of being able to graduate from good universities and come from well to do families. That is not the proper representation of our sub continent anyway. If one has to see true India, Pakistan, Bangladesh, Srilanka and Nepal one will have to go down to villages and smaller towns, which are often never talked about in the main stream media. Only then can one realize the state of affairs, which no matter how much I write will never be enough to delineate the picture properly.

I know which CIA website you are talking about, CIA cannot publish any facts or figures about any country in a public domain without having that information obtained legally by the authorities. So, my friend all you see on their website is what they get from Statistical Department of India.

Sharabi, how do you know I haven't??? not about birth control only but others as well in any capacity that I could. Question is have you???

Thanks,
 
Re: Hmmm..you points are excellent but vague!!!

Originally posted by Ahmer123
Firstly, when I said education and providing for family and friends, I did not mean "money", I meant a value (could be money or could be just a piece of advice to someone in your family on what courses to choose).....not necessary hard cash. Understand, when I said growth, I meant perspective!!!!

Like I said before, let's call a spade a spade!!!!!

Thanks,
Click to expand...

Well Ahmer123,
I am not saying that spade is a joker. I know Spade is a Spade. If anyone disagrees about that, I will come to your side.
But to understand my point, you have to come out the of box, and think. If Gandhi(for that matter, many people who fought for the freedom) had thought that getting Freedom is a difficult task, we wouldn't be free by now. And remember also Gandhi, did not alone get us the freedom. Only thing you have to realize is you have to do your part. It is as sample as that. For example, when you go to India, try to pay the custom tax for all the items you have taken, that you have to pay. Don't encourage corruption there. If they give you a hard time, try to fight against it. You may loose sometime, and also it may not have any effect at all. And more important thing is educate you friends also. Many friends may laugh at you at first, but they will follow the suit, later. Imagine if more nri's start doing that, do you think customs people will so openly ask for bribes. There are many many little things you can do. Educate the people around you. If you don't have an idea of where to start, there are many organizations in India that are fighting for good causes. Try to find out some and join the cause that appeals more interesting to you.
I will tell you an example, one of my old indian colleague wanted to do something good to India. Then he found out about some of the organizations in India. And he came across some organization(I don't remember the name) that sets up some chain of schools and give them the education. The most important thing in the education is LIVING RIGHT. This will be given the utmost important in their education. The idea behind that is, they believed that changing a grown, corrupt mind is very very difficult, so they thought of moulding children brains, from childhood. That sounded interesting to him. So he started funding to that organization and he also tries to spread the news and try to involve more people in it.
I know the changes will not occur overnight. And by stating that one should not become an "ESCAPIST".
 
Ahmer123,
Since you said I am here and not in India, allow me to explain. I have travelled and worked widely (Europe, N. America, SE Asia, Far East and a small stint down under). US is one of many destinations that I have worked but it has been my longest stay in one country outside of India.

If you dig through this thread, I did mention that I would be gone from US regardless of GC. I was never interested in GC but had to file due to my employer. My company (atleast couple of years ago) would automatically start the GC process after a person completes 6 months with them. Refusal means that I would raise suspicions with the company. Once commenced, this forum seemed interesting and I follow during my 'lean days' at work. I have a stable and fabulous job with a terrific package in this tight economy. Further, I have room to visit and explore US for a year or two before my kids start school. I have visited most of east & west coast and Canada but a few spots in midwest, hawaii, alaska and caribbean remain.

BTW, this is my second GC filing. I abandoned my first one with my previous company after I-140 approval without 485 filing. GC or no GC, I will be completing 6 yrs early 2004 and I wanted to leave US at that time. I will be gone as soon as the end of this year or early next year (probably timing it between April-June next yr for tax reasons). I am right on track as per my plans.

BTW, I would rather try to do my bit part for my 'homeland' from within than whining from afar.

To each, his own.
 
So, if the Indian economy and the society in general is so great then why move out of there in the first place. The very fact that most Indian seek job outside the Indian subcontinent goes on to prove the point I have been trying to make.

Now, one may or may not decide to go back based on a lot of factors. The question really is, should we be generalising it???
There are people here on this forum, who are ardently waiting for their GC approval but yet again they are skeptical about their stay. Why???? I guess somehow the lack of recognition from the outer US seems to be compensated by the very thought that "one day I will go back"...but go back where??? the place where you decided to migrate from in the first place. This is a oxymoron statement in the first place.

The only problem Indian (I think at this point of time I would say Immigrant community) has is lack of sense of belonging. An alienation about everything that comes from within. What we have not done, which in my opinion we should, is build up a community here??? which is again debatable. In my opinion one will exact same sense of alienation (the degree of which may vary) if he is send from north to south india or vice-versa.

And the argument we are having here, is not a topic anew to many of us. It has been dicussed time and again by generations of people who have migrated and longed for their homeland. Have they gone back...maybe a handful....but I can bet the last dollar I have in my pocket, they still complain the same. Why??? if living here is so horrible then might as well go back!!!!

Now, about making a change, very good thought!!! I agree with whatever you said. But who says one could not help from sitting 14000 miles away. Understand the point of contention is not "whether to help or not" but rather "why GC".

Thanks,
 
Originally posted by st8
Ahmer123 and others,

Just an interesting article from Dr.M.Vidyasagar, Executive Vice President, TCS.

http://atcweb.atc.tcs.co.in/~sagar/topsy.html
Click to expand...

All are not true ...It is very very difficult to earn the first 1 lac in any bodys life. So is very difficult to come out of the poverty circle.

Once if you have a 'little' you can invest that and can earn more.
But till then it will be of Hand-Mouth existence

in 1947 India was in position of total poverty. It was right what decisions were taken by Nehru & Co at that time. The proof is what we are now and what some African countries are doing ( selling human skins )

These Private Companies want to make 'ILLEGAL FAST' bucks.. so it appears for them that every step of GOI is a hurdle. If Govt is not there, these companies would have sipped the last drop of blood of employees.
 
1amShantanuB,

You are wrong at many levels. No multinational is trying to suck and blood out of anyone. The only people who are interested in doing that is GOI.

Mutlinationals on the other hand try to provide the jobs at a fair market price and thus improves the economy. In the last 50 yrs, govt. of India could not come up with a single institution to regulate the price and eradicate poverty. Salaries which some of my friends mentioned on this post (8-10 lakh/year) was something unheard about 10 yrs back.

On the other issue, where you mentioned it is very hard to earn 1 lakh in ones life, I think you are wrong here. Staying in a country or not, is not entirely dependent on the amount of the money one makes. There are a lot of of other factors involved there too, money just being one of them.

If people like "M. Vidyasagar" are economists then we all are bharatnatayam dancers. What he forgets in his entire analysis is the rapid changing Indian political scenario or should I call it fiasco. Everytime, there is another govt. in power the projects are left unfinished, FDI get hayware, people have lost trust in Indian banking/financial system not to mention judiciary & law and order.

Despite of all the above there are people like me who still vote for India because a nation in my opinion is bigger then just how much green can one make!!!!! it is in my opinion a feeling of where you belong!!!

Take Care,
 
Originally posted by googly

Despite of all the above there are people like me who still vote for India because a nation in my opinion is bigger then just how much green can one make!!!!! it is in my opinion a feeling of where you belong!!!
Click to expand...

Is that the reason, you wanted to go back to India, but need a job of atleast 12 lakhs per year and still need your citizenship here in US (referring to your other thread)? ;) (just kidding)
 
Googly
I expected an answer like this from some one...

Companies Exist ONLY for them selves. The company owner WANTS to make money for him self - Come what may.

See the scenario here in US
Many of us are working now-d-days more than say 8 hrs with NO additional PAY. This is a new trend. Companies know the weak point and expliting. They are not hesitant to fire ' citizens' wind up here and take their business to some where else for saving more money. They do not care about the employees.

Minimum wage act etc, are all guide lines framed by Govts to protect the weak. Even If there are more and more application developers, company cannot pay less than say 5$ per hour...:D:D though some body is prepare to work. They will readily pay $1/hr too.

But Govt will not agree. So they are paying the min. And ofcourse market demand is there so you are being paid more.

So Govt is not wrong always.
Because of presence Law, companies go back from cheating you. You may not know the law, but they know - so they fear.

Credit Card companies Can do this for example:
Monthly account maintenance Fee : $500
Card cancellation Fee : $10,000
 
Yes...

All the facts I wrote about India are correct, what is going to happen tomorrow there is something no one knows. So, I do not want to give up my GC or Citizenship (or maybe not just as yet!!)

But yes, since I am planning to make a move there actually tells that I am ready to go back (for sometime) despite of the fact that I acknowledge there are problems.

And like I mentioned, how much you earn does not matter, what matters is the sense of belonging. What I will make in India (taking the best case scenario) will be less then 25% of what I make here.....then why go back???? well because once again, I believe there is more to going back then just the monetory aspect. In my opinion (and that is just my opinion) it is the sense of belonging to the place which overrides all the other factors.


Thanks,:)
 
1amShantanuB

You are right when you mentioned, "companies EXIST only for themselves". Let me rephrase this in a language better suited for this conversation. The sole objective of any enterprise is to maximize its profits and minimize cost under the given condition of law.

That however, does not override the fact that businesses are still the prime source of earning in many countries. Not only do they help eradicate bigger issues like poverty and unemployment but they much rather ameliorate other conditions as well by the virtue of generating employment.

Though small-scale industries and self managed household businesses, in many ways be sufficient for providing 2 square meals a day to an individual and his family but are insufficient under the same token for providing for nation building. It is bigger conglomerates which much rather shape the future of the states.

Now, what we can argue here is "how much are they paying" or "how much should they pay", important as it may sound at its face, objectively is not that important after all. What that means is that there are certain apparent lateral benefits often overlooked by socialists (or wanna be socialists) like you. For example ancillary industry, which grows by the virtue of a corporate and small and medium size business which flourish in and around the bigger corporate developments. In the absence of which what we have is a govt. held illegitimate monopoly, for example DESU.

Govts. in order to appease the voters and to propose their own election agendas are often the bearers of their own brunt and are forced to give unwanted and unfair subsidies to manage and regulate inflation which results in huge internation borrowings and thus a bigger fiscal deficit. Which by the very nature of it is immoral as it weakens the economy more then it strenthens?? Efficient corporates on the other hand offer the fair market competetion, improve the overall effeciency both inturn help regulate the markets.

Thanks,
 
So.......
These type of arguments will go on... and on

In nut shell
It is law of Equilibrium :D:D
Society, Govt, Market, Company etc are all having their FORCE in the equaltion.

( by the way, I hate socialism.... I don't like to be equally paid on par with a more INTELLIGENT one than me. Its against law of nature.
comminism/socialism is not suitable to human society - thats why is almost DEAD from the face of earth )
 
Don't agree.....

"Law of Equilibrium", what law is that!!!!!

Society, Govt, Market, Company etc are all having their FORCE in the equaltion

Apart from simile, your statement lacks meaning too. What do you mean by "equaltion"??? Did you mean equilization!!!

Anyways, contrarory to whatever you wrote, presence of corporates in any ecomony can very well be attributed to a nation "on the right track". Only loser lalaji's complain about this change as they are not getting their chance of ripping off the customers with inferior products with an unfairly inflated market price.

In jist, what you get in the absence of a fair market competetion is Abassador and not a Mercedes. Now, the lalaji makers of Ambassadors, who had almost a century to improve upon their product/s but did little, can complain all they want to about the lack of policies to promote indigenously produced goods (which is not true in case of ambassador anyway) but in reality customers are better off with the advent of competetion. Not only we now have more choices then just one but more jobs and hundreds or thousands of ancillory services and businesses directly or indirectly propering with newer and better opportunities ina growing market. The morale is high!!! so don't talk idiotic!!!

Thanks,
 
I never try to convince FOOLS !
It is upto them to to choose to become wise :D:D

YOu are totally Childish.. better you gain some understanding on basic worldly matters

till then
BYE !!
 
Hmmm..let's see who is more childish.

1amShantanuB,

Don't cry like a high school girl. Either you know what you are talking or you do not.

Just because someone differs with your otherwise asinine opinion does not mean you will start pounding you feet on ground childishly!!! and start behaving like your true self. Where is your otherwise witty self now???

People like you have no opinion, point of views or sense of humor. You are fake in every sense of the word fake!!!

Grow up, there are things better and much more imp. in life then the chat forum on immigration.com, which is where you hang out most of the time...god knows what sort of job, friend circle or company you have (or don't). I guess you are one of those, who hide themselves in the corners of classrooms, homes and offices, all the fun you have is a sick humor (not to mention senseless) you display on chat forums like these.

Good luck posting the next one!!! that is all you have and i will not take that away from you!!!

Thanks,
 
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