Voting Dilemma !
- Thread starter Ladybuggy
- Start date
The most important advice: don't vote on a machine made by Indra Sistemas!
LOL..good one!
How so? If you are from NY (blue state) and vote for the republican presidential candidate – how is your vote going to influence outcome since the presidential election is not based on popular vote?
nyc_naturalizer
Registered Users (C)
Let me break this down for you.
1. I go to the polls. With any luck I'm not harrassed, and the machine works.
2. I cast a vote for John McCain (for the sake of argument; God strike me down if I actually do this).
3. My side loses the popular vote in the state of NY. It's not that we didn't have any influence, we just didn't have enough.
4. The electors representing NY at the electoral college all vote for Obama because he carried the popular vote in NY.
It's a grossly imperfect system, but really not hard to understand how, in theory, voters have some influence on the outcome of the election.
CNN Breaking News Update: Emilio Gonzalez's presidential win has been annulled by the courts as he's not a US born citizen.
Justice is sweet when it wants to be
CNN Breaking News Update: Emilio Gonzalez's presidential win has been annulled by the courts as he's not a US born citizen.
Justice is sweet when it wants to be
Unless Emilio uses his influence to pass the 28th amendment!
nyc_naturalizer
Registered Users (C)
Unless Emilio uses his influence to pass the 28th amendment!
He can cite unforeseen processing time delays in stepping down.
"You will hear something from us about the legal status of the Gonzalez administration within 2922 days of receiving this letter."
Ladybuggy, I would encourage you to vote. Remember that in many elections people not only vote for elected positions but for propositions. It is almost impossible to like a candidate 100%. I would take the following analogy. Let's say you need a car, and your only choices are a Honda Civic and a Toyota Corolla. Perhaps you don't like any of these two at all. However you would go through an elimination period, you would list things that you like and dislike, put each in columns, perhaps order them by the importance you give, perhaps get some points and then you would come to a decision. Democracy is much more than liking one candidate or the other, it takes effort, you have to invest the time to read beyond what the mainstream media wants to show you. I am sure if you put the effort you will come to one candidate or another. However, worse comes to worse you could vote for another party if your ideas match their ideas. Even worse, you could just leave the presidential candidate part of the ballot empty and fill out other propositions or candidacies.
I believe the popular participation in elections is bad for democracy and is a reflection of people not engaging enough in the political process. I don't want to point fingers on who's to blame, but I think the people lose when the participation is so low, that means candidates just have to focus on the hardcore voters and not the general population. It seems quite clear to me that groups that don't vote never get the same attention from politicians and they end up suffering the consequences, take the immigrants as an example.
I believe the popular participation in elections is bad for democracy and is a reflection of people not engaging enough in the political process. I don't want to point fingers on who's to blame, but I think the people lose when the participation is so low, that means candidates just have to focus on the hardcore voters and not the general population. It seems quite clear to me that groups that don't vote never get the same attention from politicians and they end up suffering the consequences, take the immigrants as an example.
Jackolantern
Registered Users (C)
The reduced influence of the non-swing states is not the fault of the electoral college system per se; the problem is with how most states choose to use the system.
Each state decides how to allocate its electoral college votes. Almost all states use a winner-take-all system that gives all their EC votes to the candidate with the most popular vote within the state. As a result, states that historically are not close to the 50/50 mark will be taken for granted; the winner of the state can be easily predicted ahead of time, regardless of how much or how little effort the candidates put toward that state.
But there are two states, Nebraska and Maine, that don't automatically give all their EC votes to one candidate. They have a formula that splits the EC votes to different candidates based on the districts the candidates have won. So a candidate needs a landslide victory across the state to take all the EC votes.
The non-swing states could increase their influence by adopting a similar measure. But it probably won't happen because the voters and politicians in those states lean heavily to R or D, so the ruling majorities in those states won't want to change to a system that enables some EC votes to go to the other party.
Each state decides how to allocate its electoral college votes. Almost all states use a winner-take-all system that gives all their EC votes to the candidate with the most popular vote within the state. As a result, states that historically are not close to the 50/50 mark will be taken for granted; the winner of the state can be easily predicted ahead of time, regardless of how much or how little effort the candidates put toward that state.
But there are two states, Nebraska and Maine, that don't automatically give all their EC votes to one candidate. They have a formula that splits the EC votes to different candidates based on the districts the candidates have won. So a candidate needs a landslide victory across the state to take all the EC votes.
The non-swing states could increase their influence by adopting a similar measure. But it probably won't happen because the voters and politicians in those states lean heavily to R or D, so the ruling majorities in those states won't want to change to a system that enables some EC votes to go to the other party.
Jackolantern
Registered Users (C)
Yes, in November of a national election year, you are not just voting for the president. You are also casting votes for (or against) changes to the law, as well as voting for senators and congresspersons. Even if the state overall is a hardcore blue state or red state when it comes to voting for the president, many of the non-presidential politicians do not have a predictable victory or loss.
Rameshwari
New Member
which presidential candidate running this year is a better choice
if all I'm concerned about is immigrant rights? (for people like us
on this forum?)
Thnaks!
if all I'm concerned about is immigrant rights? (for people like us
on this forum?)
Thnaks!
cafeconleche
Registered Users (C)
I think we legal immigrants don't have much to worry about with any of the candidates. They're not extremely right wing (like the Italians now- they are absolute fascists again). Even illegal immigration is just an issue that is brought up off and on for them to have something hot to discuss... they're not going to do anything about it. So, you will have to look at other issues. PLEASE DO! They're out there, everywhere. You can even contact the candidates' office and ask them for information.
I would put the Swiss way above the Italians. Even today, Swiss citizenship is given on the basis of a secret meeting of the city council which collects "feedback" from neighbours.
From today's NY times:
http://www.nytimes.com/2008/06/01/world/europe/01swiss.html
From today's NY times:
http://www.nytimes.com/2008/06/01/world/europe/01swiss.html
cafeconleche
Registered Users (C)
Yeah, but the Swiss just voted against the Popular Party's push once again for the secret ballot vote for the granting of citizenship. Thankfully. Absolutely racist.
Your theory is not perfect. The electoral college map changes over the years and the history of the United States. Do not forget there used to be a time Texas used to vote Democratic. November will show if there is a big shift in the map
I personally am expecting a blue tidal wave Not unless Hillary is also on the ticket
If not, it will be McCain for me!
If not, it will be McCain for me!
Your theory is not perfect. The electoral college map changes over the years and the history of the United States. Do not forget there used to be a time Texas used to vote Democratic. November will show if there is a big shift in the map