Trip to Canada which I have not mentioned on N-400

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CitizenshipFees

Registered Users (C)
After reading jt12 posting, I am getting little nervous. I have an interview this month. In 2002 we went Canada to see the Niagara Falls, and I don’t think it was 24hours but not really sure now. When I sit and think it feels like I was in Canada around 10am and returned the next day by 1pm or 2pm. I am not positive about the timings.

I have disclosed all my India trips but I have not disclosed this trip on N-400 because I was thinking it was not more than 24hours.

Nothing is stamped on Passport. Can USCIS track the visit to Canada? What should I say in the interview?

I did not think this as an issue till I saw the post from jt12. I am getting little nervous. Please advice me how should go forward with this situation.

Do you all think that I should consult the Attorney?

Thanks in advance.
 
Bobsmyth - Thanks for your response. The problem is I am not sure whether the trip was 24 hours, it might be 27 or 28hours, but not really sure. Is there any way USCIS can track the hours of the trip.
 
During the interview they will ask you if you have travelled since submitting your application. At that point you can divulge that you had another trip to Canada that was 1 day that you originally forgot to mention.
 
CitizenshipFees said:
How to mention in the interview? I should tell them before they ask me?
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I wouldn't worry about this too much. When they come to your foreign travel section, you can just mention that you neglected to mention one trip to Canada that may or may not have lasted longer than 24 hours. Just try to have the approximate dates, in case they decide to write it down.

I have made many "day" trips to Mexico, some of which lasted less than 24 hours, and some of which lasted more. On my application, I included a separate page that states this fact, and also notes that while most of the trips were less than 24 hours, some were probably more. I gave an estimate of the number of these trips, and the longest duration. All told, worst case scenario, is it would have added an extra 12 days of being outside the US. Since I am only at 58 days outside the US since I got my GC, then these additional trips put me nowhere near the limits of physical presence or continuous presence. You can be truthful, without being 100% accurate.
 
From what I remember, if you spent part of the day in the US then that day was not counted as a travel day. Even if you spent 30 hrs spread over 2 days and were present in the US on both days, wouldn't that mean that translates to 0 days outside US ?
 
aabbcc11 said:
From what I remember, if you spent part of the day in the US then that day was not counted as a travel day. Even if you spent 30 hrs spread over 2 days and were present in the US on both days, wouldn't that mean that translates to 0 days outside US ?
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It would mean 0 days if you didn't count "partial" days outside the US as being outside. The N-400 guide indicates that you shouldn't count partial days, but I also found this point to be confusing. On my application, the way I calculated was to subtract the departure date from the re-entry date. So, if I departed on the 18th and returned on the 23rd, I counted it as 5 days even though I was only out of the country for 4 full days (19th, 20th, 21st and 22nd). If they want to re-calculate it, they can.
 
aabbcc11 said:
From what I remember, if you spent part of the day in the US then that day was not counted as a travel day. Even if you spent 30 hrs spread over 2 days and were present in the US on both days, wouldn't that mean that translates to 0 days outside US ?
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Yes, but you are still supposed to list trips of longer than 24 hours, even if the result is 0 days using the rule of counting the departure and arrival dates as days within the US.
 
Jackolantern said:
Yes, but you are still supposed to list trips of longer than 24 hours, even if the result is 0 days using the rule of counting the departure and arrival dates as days within the US.
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No need to worry about the trip. Just let them know in the interview about it. I had something similar and was questioned about my few trips I made. He was just going over the list of ones I mentioned and then I inturrupted him because I had forgotten another weekend long trip to Canada somewhere in there. IO just marked it down on my sheet and adjusted my trip time line (as I had added a 6 week trip to India in there before I was a PR which he removed).

So it's no big deal, they'll adjust it in the interview, so just mention you forgot about it. Nothing to worry about...
 
yummyk said:
It would mean 0 days if you didn't count "partial" days outside the US as being outside. The N-400 guide indicates that you shouldn't count partial days, but I also found this point to be confusing. On my application, the way I calculated was to subtract the departure date from the re-entry date. So, if I departed on the 18th and returned on the 23rd, I counted it as 5 days even though I was only out of the country for 4 full days (19th, 20th, 21st and 22nd). If they want to re-calculate it, they can.
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You only count the days for which you spent the night OUTSIDE the USA. I asked a CBP officer about that during one of my trips. So basically the day you leave is outside, the day you come back is not considered as time spent out. This is what I've used for all of my calculations - N-400 and declarations at point of entries - and I haven't come across and trouble.
 
LolaLi,
But the N-400 guide says "partial day" need not be counted. Even if you spend few hours in the US (whether you depart or arrive), it need not be counted.

This is as per N-400 instructions.
 
This trip should be mentioned on the application as a trip of 0 days length.
Trips shorter than 24 hours are ALWAYS 0 length trips, that is why they are irrelevant for time counting, and it makes no sense to list them.
Trips longer than 24 hours could potentially be counted as 1 or more days. But this trip is 0 days outside of the US, because there were no full days (midnight to midnight) outside of US. So, during th einterview you need to correct the form by saying you had a 0 day trip to Canada.
 
raevsky said:
This trip should be mentioned on the application as a trip of 0 days length.
Trips shorter than 24 hours are ALWAYS 0 length trips, that is why they are irrelevant for time counting, and it makes no sense to list them.
Trips longer than 24 hours could potentially be counted as 1 or more days. But this trip is 0 days outside of the US, because there were no full days (midnight to midnight) outside of US. So, during th einterview you need to correct the form by saying you had a 0 day trip to Canada.
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Call me crazy, but that makes absolutely no sense to me. If you had a trip of "0" days, then why bother to report it on the form. Since it will not count towards the physical presence requirements then why bother with it?

Can somebody tell me where in the guidelines it states that one need not count "partial" days as days outside the US?
 
yummyk said:
Can somebody tell me where in the guidelines it states that one need not count "partial" days as days outside the US?
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Page 24 of the Guide to Naturalization (M-476.pdf).

Listing the trips and counting the days aren't the same thing. List the trip if it's more than 24 hours, but put 0 days if the return was the very next calendar day after the departure. Even though you put 0 days, they probably want them listed so they can see if there are so many short trips to the extent that it appears you are actually residing outside the US. Either that, or they think that if they said to leave out those short trips, people would leave out slightly longer trips that they should have listed, so they prefer that you list the trips and then they will review it to see which really qualify as 0 days and which don't.
 
Jackolantern said:
Page 24 of the Guide to Naturalization (M-476.pdf).

Listing the trips and counting the days aren't the same thing. List the trip if it's more than 24 hours, but put 0 days if the return was the very next calendar day after the departure. Even though you put 0 days, they probably want them listed so they can see if there are so many short trips to the extent that it appears you are actually residing outside the US. Either that, or they think that if they said to leave out those short trips, people would leave out slightly longer trips that they should have listed, so they prefer that you list the trips and then they will review it to see which really qualify as 0 days and which don't.
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Well, the M-476 guide states that: "Generally, partial days in the United States count as full days in the United States". I remember reading that now when I first filled out my N-400. I also recall thinking that that rule most likely applied to longer trips, but that for a trip of, for example, 30 hours they would want it listed as one day (since it was, technically, one day). However, as with all things USCIS-related, it is ambiguous and subject to interpretation.

I agree with you about the residing somewhere else thing. Many Mexican people with work visas actually reside in the Mexican city of Tijuana and commute to San Diego for work, the reason being that the cost of living in TJ is so much lower. USCIS probably wants to ensure that PRs don't do that, and that they have a residence set up here.
 
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