Surge of Older PD’s

Billtoo said:
I know couple of guys who swiched jobs and paid high $$$ to get a pre-approved labor ... I will wait and see if they get approved..

If 485 cannot be approved for multiple guys with the same labor ( in the circumtances discussed above in the thread)...

Do all substitute labor guys will have hard time in 485 stage?


Experts --- Please do comment.
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It is very simple. If AC-21 is used on a labor(provided I-140 is approved and 485 pending for 6+ months), it can not be re-used for a new employee. This is as good as a dead LC
 
avi101 said:
However, USCIS has been using the labor dates as PDs for substituted labors too. I remember reading an article sometime back in Murthy.com or on Khanna's site talking about this.
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If my memory serves, they mention USCIS is making mistake to use PD from
filing date of original labor instead of filing date of I140.
 
I think a labor once associated with a 140 can not be reused as substitution without revoking/denial of that 140.
If any employer is able to do so, should be considered as fraud and should be caught sooner or later.
 
eBhola
is right, that due to substitute labor cases, there is more delay for I485 and its a chain going on and many lawyers know about this and lawyers and employers are making money on this.

Also employer can play with I-140 and LC after 6 -1+, 2+, 3+ years too there is no limit as long as I485 is pending. Also AC21 is memo not a law thats why many people got NOID on I485.

dice12
EB3 retrogressed........................
 
dice12 said:
lawyers and employers are making money on this.
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Man I will tell U ... I know some cases .. in the run up to Oct 01, 2005 ... many charged around $25,000 to $30,000 for a processing EB2 with substitution labor ..... the pre-approved labor have had become like a wine ... the older it was more valuable was it...

Wonder where those EB2 pre-approved labor came from?

Most of the EB2 filed were so hurried thru in the end ... looks like the attorneys office thought ... lets file it first .. we will tackle the RFE's later.

Well atleast for now ... if all of them get 140 approved in 3 months time .. all will jump past most of the guys waiting from EB3/EB2 Category since 2002..
 
Interesting way to go around the system and abuse it. It might explain why DOL proposed in August 2005 to eliminate LC substitutions. As far as I know it has not been approved yet, but it might happen soon. That could substantially reduce number of 140/485 applications in the system.
 
If you cant beat them, join them.

hundreds of desi companies are now hoarding thousands of 1999 2000 lcs that is getting cleared by the backlog centers, and all this will come into the market.

so if anyone knows these dalals, please share it with the forum.
 
always_in_labor said:
If you cant beat them, join them.

hundreds of desi companies are now hoarding thousands of 1999 2000 lcs that is getting cleared by the backlog centers, and all this will come into the market.

so if anyone knows these dalals, please share it with the forum.
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The price tag on the bottle of Wine increases exponentially with time.... the older more pricey it becomes -- how much are U ready to shell out...
 
It's loophole but rational in term of job market. If one invokes AC21 to switch job that means there is another job position availabe and original employer has one more empty slot to fill up. Employer spent money/time to get this LC. It's their right to fill up actual person. Both positions are valid! Simply put, one personal moves, it implies two positions availabe in this country. Though it's loophole in law but resonable in labour market if not abused. Sub-LC should not be eliminated entirely but needs to be more regulated.
 
the advices attorney give

And attorney want people to use more AC21 and move on ...

Look at this what MurthyDotCom had to say some time back:

Almost every problem in immigration has at least some benefit; the proverbial silver lining in the dark cloud of retrogression. For visa unavailability, two things come to mind.

The first is marriage timing. Many people wait until their I-485s are pending to plan their marriages. It is necessary, however, to get married before the I-485 approval in order for the new spouse to be eligible for the same employment-based category and same priority date as the primary spouse. Marriage after the green card is approved means the case becomes a family case, with a waiting time for visa number availability in the family category that is normally five to seven years. Thus, those EB3 individuals who have delayed making marriage plans or have plans sometime during July through September 2005, because of visa number unavailability, will not have their cases approved before their weddings.

The second issue pertains to changes in jobs. Under AC21, it is possible to change jobs after the I-485 has reached the 180-day point. It is generally understood, however, that it is best to make this change before the green card is approved. With visa unavailability, EB3 individuals know that their I-485 cases are going to remain pending at least through the end of September 2005, and possibly longer, especially for nationals of India, mainland China, and the Philippines.
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Go ahead -- make the change -- create a room for some windfall.
Ahhh the advices attorney give ...........
 
GCIsTortoise said:
It's loophole but rational in term of job market.
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Rational in term of job market --
Go ask any CEO -- pick a guy for Ur company -- who will join the company later ( date unknown).
Do U think an CEO can ever pick a guy for the future employement and the future date is unkown..

There is not rational in this process... But still thats the way it works.

Well sub-Labor is here to stay -- but U know when they take up higher slots after cutting the line -- it hurts others waiting..
 
Ac-21

Nadi said:
And attorney want people to use more AC21 and move on ...

Look at this what MurthyDotCom had to say some time back:
It is generally understood, however, that it is best to make this change before the green card is approved.
Go ahead -- make the change -- create a room for some windfall.
Ahhh the advices attorney give ...........
Click to expand...

AC-21 is a memos and memos of this type do not have the force of law and are subject to change by the issuance of subsequent memos, regulations, or changes in law. They are guidance on USCIS interpretation at the time they are issued and generally are used by the Service Centers in deciding cases.


Well AC-21 might change from the present form before it becomes some sort of law.

If it changes as we wait for years for 485 to get adjucated, will it still protect the guys who have used in past.

I read somewhere in the forum that some guys -- who got there 140 approved and after 180 days of 485 he/she changed the company using AC-21 and guess what ... USCIS denied the 485 and revovked the approved 140.. Well by my guess they will successfully fight it out ...but a hassel no one would want to be involved in.

After some research in this area -- I think (?) the guy who uses AC-21 is MORE at risk than the guy who uses his labor (substitute).

Wonder why its better in the future unknown area !!!!
 
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Isn't is true that these days 140 gets approved within 6 months? Therefore, if you've filed concurrently why not play it safe and stick out the company for 6 months. With 140 approved and 485 over 6 months, you can easily move under AC21 and no issue of employer revoking the 140.
 
GCIsTortoise said:
It's loophole but rational in term of job market. If one invokes AC21 to switch job that means there is another job position availabe and original employer has one more empty slot to fill up. Employer spent money/time to get this LC. It's their right to fill up actual person. Both positions are valid! Simply put, one personal moves, it implies two positions availabe in this country. Though it's loophole in law but resonable in labour market if not abused. Sub-LC should not be eliminated entirely but needs to be more regulated.
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This is not correct. 99% of the labor subsitution is a fraud and abusing the system. It should be eliminated immediatly and completly.
"Employer spent money/time to get this LC". I agree. At the same time employer might have earned more money from that employee. After all they are doing business, not charity.
"It's their right to fill up actual person". I agree this too. However, How did the employer find the second subsitute? Is it through open labor market? Have thay advertised the job properly? Is the job open to all including US worker? How does one know the second subsitute is a result of adiquate/correct recruitment effort? There is no way to check it. DOL and USCIS made a blunder mistake in admitting this.
 
Billtoo said:
AC-21 is a memos and memos of this type do not have the force of law and are subject to change by the issuance of subsequent memos, regulations, or changes in law. They are guidance on USCIS interpretation at the time they are issued and generally are used by the Service Centers in deciding cases.
After some research in this area -- I think (?) the guy who uses AC-21 is MORE at risk than the guy who uses his labor (substitute).

Wonder why its better in the future unknown area !!!!
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The main purpose of AC21 is to give job flexibility to the employee. Therefore one is 100% is safe if he/she port the job correctly (140 is approved for safeside and 485 is pending more than 180 days).

More and more people will use or they will be forced to use due to deep retrogression in visa numbers. For example, think of an EB3 Indian having PD in 2004. He has to wait several years to get GC.
 
cut-off date will regtrogress quite a bit every fisical year.

can_card said:
More and more people will use or they will be forced to use AC21 due to deep retrogression in visa numbers. For example, think of an EB3 Indian having PD in 2004. He has to wait several years to get GC.
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Yes, as more and more people use AC-21 .... for many small companies it will give them the valuable labor back.. there are many in the market who are looking for older Labor so that they do not have to wait long for 485.

So quickly an EB3 Indian having PD in 2004 will see a surge of atleast 60% new guys infront of him in a year .. and he will be pushed further down...

Say -- a guy with the labor of 2000 uses AC-21 today and moves on... Now his employer (old) revokes his 140 etc and files in new 140 to another guy. So this guy will be ready by end of this fiscal year with 140 approved. When the USCIS

- State Department will do a reorder in Sep 2006 ..
The cut-off date will push back to 2000.. So in effect the cut-off date will regtrogress quite a bit, begining every fiscal year.
 
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eBhola is Right.

As UN mentioned, if more and more people use AC21 in future, and if more employer abuse the system (by revoking 140 and applying the LC subsitution), only the 140/485s with very old PD will be active in the cycle. The PD cutoff date will never move forward. The geniune guys using their own LC will be severly affected, waiting in the pipeline for ever.

To stop this, the only one way is stop the LC subsitution and USCIS has to make a rule that the 140 can not be revoked after 6 months.

Some one has to write a detailed letter to USCIS about this issue.
 
I heard few days back that USCIS is bring a law to stop Labor substitution. Does anyone know what is the status of that rule?

Thanks
 
DOL will propose..
Employers and Lawyers will oppose..
DOL will revert its stand..
Everything is a big hogwash..
Labor substitution is here to stay..

However, I do not want to hurt genuine labor appliers who are are still waiting for their labor to get cleared, they fully deserve their GC ahead of most of us.
If at all we have to point a finger at anyone, it is at the system itself which issued GC to all labors cleared in 4-5 months with a PD Of 2002-2003 from some centers, when others were waiting for years together having PDs of 2001 and earlier.


Loopholes are left unplugged in the system, for a reason.
Someone said: "Retrogression is another way of ending substitute labor"
i.e it is supposed that all old unused labor are going to surface. Well isn't it the right time to surface the LCs and make hefty income. It is going to end subs-labor, of course after everyone line their pockets well, and then after 5 years we will follow a proper system and everyone will be happy ever-after.....
Doesn't this sound familiar?

If the govt wanted, it did not have to do anything but just shift the PD to the new I-140 instead of keeping the same PD. This would have solved the problem to a very great extent. WHY DONT THEY DO THIS?
because, the money hungry employers and the lawyers do not want this to happen?
So then, who is the Govt. trying to protect here?
Do they not have any lawyers to give reasons for scrapping sub-labor?

Everyone is hand in glove, whom do you trust?
 
At the end of our green card journey, the US will end up with a bunch of immigration lawyers by training :D

Keep analysing guys, the process will still be slow :)
 
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