sotiredofwaiting
Registered Users (C)
perm_lc said:
I disagree, please read thru the Q&A's here: http://www.immigration-law.com/Visa Retrogression Q&A.html for instance Q27 and Q28
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Surge of Older PD’s
- Thread starter eBhola
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I disagree, please read thru the Q&A's here: http://www.immigration-law.com/Visa Retrogression Q&A.html for instance Q27 and Q28
sotiredofwaiting said:I disagree, please read thru the Q&A's here: http://www.immigration-law.com/Visa Retrogression Q&A.html for instance Q27 and Q28
What ever I mentioned is right, not contracts with the QA.
If employer wd 140 before 6 months, the first employee got scrd. The second one will get. If withdrawal is after 6 months first one (If he used AC21) is safe, the second one is scrd, unless second one escapes from loop hole. In either case only one GC is officially issued.
unitednations said:if employer/lawyers plan correctly, more then one person can get greencard on the same labor.
Yes thats correct... and many are doing it.
The favourable winds that makes the sail even better are retrogression, concurrent filing, faster 140 approval and many guys willing to pay for a earlier PD... PERM who cares
As long as the guy with the original labor does not get 485 approved --- an employer can hatch in any number of guys with the same labor. The retrogression has given them chance to squeese in more guys. The only thing they need now is -- ability to file 485 even when retrogressed. If this get passed -- they can chuck a guy out as soon as 140 is approved and get a new guy in -- without waiting for additional 180 days.
Let them do whatevery they want --- I do not care about the games -- an sub labor guy should not get the earlier PD.. thats what I thought should be good.
But this will stay.
Used same labour for multiple people.
Employees/Attoney using brains and reclaiming the old labor to there benefits --- is little better than this ...
I got this from other post :
Guys check Ur labor before U pay -- if at all U are paying.
Employees/Attoney using brains and reclaiming the old labor to there benefits --- is little better than this ...
I got this from other post :
Mike Khosla(Ace tech Lawyer) is a real stupid crazy *** who has
1. He sent 100's substitution labour cases to California service center.
2. Used same labour for multiple people.
Guys check Ur labor before U pay -- if at all U are paying.
The only easy solution out of all this is to ban all Labor Substitution.
But something tells me there will be a huge hue and cry from Layers and Employers if this happens.
There will be lawsuits left right and center and the USCIS will reinstate it. But again I guess the lawyeres and companies have already lobbied to keep Labor Substitution.
No wonder the PD's have gone so far back. What this means is that any labor left from any year (could be even in the 70's) for which a 485 is not approved is a candidate for Substituion. Also it surely takes sometime for the USCIS to realise thse cases and send an RFE. In the meantime the application gets counted and the USCIS will keep pusing back the PD's.
If this keeps continuing then I wont be surprised that the PD's move further back every month. This month (Oct 2005) employers who were operational before 1998 would search for any labors in their drawers and if they find it then they can potentially substitute it without even caring for the fact that there is a 485 approved for that. During those days there was no AC21 and the employee stayed with the company until the GC was obtained. But the employer can potentially (fraudulantly) sell the labor to an unsuspecting (desperate) employee.
Now the USCIS sees that there is more demand for Visa numbers for year 1998 and 97. So they push back the PD's to 1995. This can potentially continue, but it probably limited to 90's becuase the concept of large scale bhadwagiri started in the 90's. Other big companies probably wont stoop so low.
Therefore potentially the PD's will remain in the mid 90's for sometime until the USCIS starts rejecting those fraudulant filings and shatter the dreams and money of those unsuspecting people.
neocor
But something tells me there will be a huge hue and cry from Layers and Employers if this happens.
There will be lawsuits left right and center and the USCIS will reinstate it. But again I guess the lawyeres and companies have already lobbied to keep Labor Substitution.
No wonder the PD's have gone so far back. What this means is that any labor left from any year (could be even in the 70's) for which a 485 is not approved is a candidate for Substituion. Also it surely takes sometime for the USCIS to realise thse cases and send an RFE. In the meantime the application gets counted and the USCIS will keep pusing back the PD's.
If this keeps continuing then I wont be surprised that the PD's move further back every month. This month (Oct 2005) employers who were operational before 1998 would search for any labors in their drawers and if they find it then they can potentially substitute it without even caring for the fact that there is a 485 approved for that. During those days there was no AC21 and the employee stayed with the company until the GC was obtained. But the employer can potentially (fraudulantly) sell the labor to an unsuspecting (desperate) employee.
Now the USCIS sees that there is more demand for Visa numbers for year 1998 and 97. So they push back the PD's to 1995. This can potentially continue, but it probably limited to 90's becuase the concept of large scale bhadwagiri started in the 90's. Other big companies probably wont stoop so low.
Therefore potentially the PD's will remain in the mid 90's for sometime until the USCIS starts rejecting those fraudulant filings and shatter the dreams and money of those unsuspecting people.
neocor
GreenCardVirus
Registered Users (C)
unitednations said:Another way to check if it is an original labor; get them to scan it, using a color scanner. In the signature page approving the labor, the stamp will be three different colors. Now of course if they are wicked enough to color copy the original before they applied for it to uscis and fool you into thinking it is the original then there is no protection for you. One person I know of was smart enough to get 750a and 750b of the labor, and from the details of the 750b tracked down the person whom the labor was for and contacted them. Person said their case had been denied due to ability to pay and it had been used.
I am thinking of starting a thread right on immigrationportal.com and post my LABOR Details. Any one using so and so labor certification (number), do it at your own discretion and risk.
What you say guys ??
A question for you
UnitedNations, you have tons of knowledge and I wanted to thank you for sharing all that information with the forum members.
A question for you,
Getting a green card is a privilege and not a RIGHT. So can the USCIS withdraw this privilege, if it later finds out that it was obtained by improper means - Like say 4 guys getting green card on the same labor?
UnitedNations, you have tons of knowledge and I wanted to thank you for sharing all that information with the forum members.
A question for you,
Getting a green card is a privilege and not a RIGHT. So can the USCIS withdraw this privilege, if it later finds out that it was obtained by improper means - Like say 4 guys getting green card on the same labor?
mutiple filing of 140 on the same labor
Looks like USCIS is looking into the mutiple filing of 140 on the same labor
Here is one of the letter sent to company by USCIS regarding the labor issue, I got this from the forum.
Is there going to be a major investigation on the multiple filing of 140 against the same labor ... For USCIS its just a simple Query to get all the data.
Looks like USCIS is looking into the mutiple filing of 140 on the same labor
Here is one of the letter sent to company by USCIS regarding the labor issue, I got this from the forum.
This letter is being served upon you because a review of the petitions that you submitted are not bona-fide positions with legitimate labor certificates. You state that you have 65 employees, however, you have submitted over 300 I-140 petitions and of those 300 plus petitions, 77 petitions have been approved. The labor certificate in this file has also been submitted for the use in other files at the same time. A labor certificate is authorized for a petitioner for a specific person to work at a specific place. There are provisions for labor substitutions; however, the labor certificate may only be used for one beneficiary at a time. It is further noted that numerous labor certificates were altered after the Department of Labor had certified the Labor certificate. It is also noted that some filings have the Department of Labor cover letter, but contain a labor certificate from another beneficiary. Other filings dont contain a Department of Labor cover letter, but contain an altered labor certificate and document explaining labor substitution.
Submit a list of employees that you intend to use the labor certificates for. Please be very clear and distinct in clarifying which original labor certificate should be matched with which beneficiary. One original certified labor certificate will be considered per beneficiary. If it is a labor substitution case, submit a new labor substitution request, as numerous filings do not have any documentation to indicate which labor certificate is for which beneficiary. At final review each case will be determined by the guidelines outlined above. If there are any questions relating to the validity of labor certificate, the ability to pay or the education/experience needed the file will be denied. The Service will not make a final decision regarding the revocation of your petition's approval for thirty (30) days.
During that time you may submit any evidence that you feel will overcome the reasons for revocation. Failure to submit such evidence could result in the revocation of the approval previously granted.
Is there going to be a major investigation on the multiple filing of 140 against the same labor ... For USCIS its just a simple Query to get all the data.
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Jackolantern
Registered Users (C)
That alone should be grounds for prosecuting them for fraud. But still they are being given a chance to resubmit the applications.You state that you have 65 employees, however, you have submitted over 300 I-140 petitions...
What will happen to the employees who filed their GC through this 'fraud' employer. I believe they are not at fault - why should they suffer?
Besides, what will happen if the employee has already moved ahead by filing AC21 etc....will his /her 485 filing nullified?
Thanks
Besides, what will happen if the employee has already moved ahead by filing AC21 etc....will his /her 485 filing nullified?
Thanks
unitednations said:AC21 protection to the employee doesn't matter if USCIS decides to revoke approved 140.
Again AC21 protection is not a rule ... its only in the form of Memo that serves as a guildlines. I agree with you , if they please they can revoke the approved 140.
As you suggested earlier -- the point system adopted in Canada or Australia might solve most of the complex immigration issues.
A few companies have been exposed in a big immigration racket ... we do not know as of today .. what might happen to the companies or their CEO's. Will it expose some more company .. well its a big question mark..
What do U think, will it stall the appoval of I-485, for sometime to sort off the matter and reOrder the list for this fisical year?
Stupid Uscis
Basically, it comes back to 2-3 things.. Those who are using labor substitution, needs to be very careful..
1. The first and foremost is, USCIS is now looking for "ability to pay" in a very careful and stupid way.. The employer if has 5 genuine labors from 2001 priority date and applies for GC for 5 new employees who joined the company in 2004, again I am not talking about the case where they have 5 substitution labors and they appplied for 15 new employees, I am only talking about a company having 5 genuine labors and used for 5 new employees, then the employer MUST have the PROFITS enough to pay wages for these new 5 employees from 2001 to 2004... In case they do not have profits and 0 dollars net income in one of the years(don't care if the economy was slow), then they are rejecting those new 5 substituition cases.. """"Here USICIS is not at all thinking that green card is for future employment, they just want since that the company is able to pay or not since the priority date. """"
2. Second thing USCIS is looking for and rejecting I-140 is for whether the job is temporary or permanent.. I know every desi consulting company's employee is in a temporary job, i.e., as long as you are on project you have a job , or you are on bench with pay for certain period and no pay after that. But, some of these desi companies support you while you are on bench by saying your GC will still continue. But, USCIS thinks otherwise, and says that all the desi consulting jobs are temporary, how stupid is that ?? . Even if you say that these jobs are future jobs, meaning you are going to join them full time after getting GC, is not going to work. If this is the case, every one who got a job from desi or american consulting company should not get GC..
The above two things happened to ACE Tecnologies according to the I-140 denial letter that was posted.. Again, these two stupid rules were from USICS, I don't know how those who got their I-140 denied from this company can blame ACE or its lawyer, if USICS is strict on its policies..
Can anyone comment ? I really want to understand if this is the case or I am wrong ??
Basically, it comes back to 2-3 things.. Those who are using labor substitution, needs to be very careful..
1. The first and foremost is, USCIS is now looking for "ability to pay" in a very careful and stupid way.. The employer if has 5 genuine labors from 2001 priority date and applies for GC for 5 new employees who joined the company in 2004, again I am not talking about the case where they have 5 substitution labors and they appplied for 15 new employees, I am only talking about a company having 5 genuine labors and used for 5 new employees, then the employer MUST have the PROFITS enough to pay wages for these new 5 employees from 2001 to 2004... In case they do not have profits and 0 dollars net income in one of the years(don't care if the economy was slow), then they are rejecting those new 5 substituition cases.. """"Here USICIS is not at all thinking that green card is for future employment, they just want since that the company is able to pay or not since the priority date. """"
2. Second thing USCIS is looking for and rejecting I-140 is for whether the job is temporary or permanent.. I know every desi consulting company's employee is in a temporary job, i.e., as long as you are on project you have a job , or you are on bench with pay for certain period and no pay after that. But, some of these desi companies support you while you are on bench by saying your GC will still continue. But, USCIS thinks otherwise, and says that all the desi consulting jobs are temporary, how stupid is that ?? . Even if you say that these jobs are future jobs, meaning you are going to join them full time after getting GC, is not going to work. If this is the case, every one who got a job from desi or american consulting company should not get GC..
The above two things happened to ACE Tecnologies according to the I-140 denial letter that was posted.. Again, these two stupid rules were from USICS, I don't know how those who got their I-140 denied from this company can blame ACE or its lawyer, if USICS is strict on its policies..
Can anyone comment ? I really want to understand if this is the case or I am wrong ??
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asdqwe2k2 said:1. The first and foremost is, USCIS is now looking for "ability to pay" in a very careful and stupid way..
2. Second thing USCIS is looking for and rejecting I-140 is for whether the job is temporary or permanent..
Ability to pay : is infact to protect the future employee.. Otherwise the desi company might make you slave in the end .. make you work and pay nothing...
Having said that -- if the company is there since a long time ... say 10-15 years and have done ok .. even if it is not performing good when labor was applied ... the USCIS does not care. But if its just 2-3 year old company ... making just nothing at present -- how do U think the USCIS can test, if they can pay someone in future.
Temporary or permanent Job: This is like seasonal worker .. pay whenever there are paddy is to be harvested. Well its work well to "not so well off" employers.. They can cut cost and save a lot... Well but the employee suffers in this case. So USCIS does not want to increase such type of employee or jobs --- at least on papers. But in case if he/she is an H1B employee -- he is breaching the contract by not paying the H1B employee.
USCIS cannot afford to breach the international labor laws and the employee future needs to be safeguarded... or else U will find many desi companies coming in and sucking rest of the juice of the very countrymen.
GreenCardVirus
Registered Users (C)
eBhola said:Again AC21 protection is not a rule ... its only in the form of Memo that serves as a guildlines. I agree with you , if they please they can revoke the approved 140.
AC21 is a law, not a memo. You are protected by LAW if you change jobs after 180 days of 485.
GreenCardVirus
Registered Users (C)
asdqwe2k2 said:Basically, it comes back to 2-3 things.. Those who are using labor substitution, needs to be very careful..
1. The first and foremost is, USCIS is now looking for "ability to pay" in a very careful and stupid way.. The employer if has 5 genuine labors from 2001 priority date and applies for GC for 5 new employees who joined the company in 2004, again I am not talking about the case where they have 5 substitution labors and they appplied for 15 new employees, I am only talking about a company having 5 genuine labors and used for 5 new employees, then the employer MUST have the PROFITS enough to pay wages for these new 5 employees from 2001 to 2004... In case they do not have profits and 0 dollars net income in one of the years(don't care if the economy was slow), then they are rejecting those new 5 substituition cases.. """"Here USICIS is not at all thinking that green card is for future employment, they just want since that the company is able to pay or not since the priority date. """"
2. Second thing USCIS is looking for and rejecting I-140 is for whether the job is temporary or permanent.. I know every desi consulting company's employee is in a temporary job, i.e., as long as you are on project you have a job , or you are on bench with pay for certain period and no pay after that. But, some of these desi companies support you while you are on bench by saying your GC will still continue. But, USCIS thinks otherwise, and says that all the desi consulting jobs are temporary, how stupid is that ?? . Even if you say that these jobs are future jobs, meaning you are going to join them full time after getting GC, is not going to work. If this is the case, every one who got a job from desi or american consulting company should not get GC..
The above two things happened to ACE Tecnologies according to the I-140 denial letter that was posted.. Again, these two stupid rules were from USICS, I don't know how those who got their I-140 denied from this company can blame ACE or its lawyer, if USICS is strict on its policies..
Can anyone comment ? I really want to understand if this is the case or I am wrong ??
ACE? hmmmm!!!. I have a friend who got his 140 approved thru them. He hooked up with these people when he was in a very precarious position (6 years were almost up).
GreenCardVirus said:AC21 is a law, not a memo. You are protected by LAW if you change jobs after 180 days of 485.
Yes we are protected if changed jobs after 180 days and USCIS accepts Ur AC-21 application..
I far as I can remember AC21 was a memorandum (I think upto May 12, 2005 atleast).
I would appreciate a link where it explains it into a Law...
Thanks
ebhola,
I definetly agree with you that employer is responsible to pay and should not put an employee in difficult situation, but then the other solution is to fire him,right ??.. during 2001-2003 IT downturn, many of the american companies laid off their employees, but many other desi companies, tried to help these employeees by not revoking their H1. (should I say helped here ??, I mean they also could have fired by taking back their H1 status, like other big american corporations ). Then 245(k) came in, which is helping some of them who were out of status.
Anyway, coming to the first case regarding the ability to pay, according to their web site ace technologies has been their since 1993 and probably may have done atleast 200-300's of GC's till now, 300 may be too high, but this I am thinking because, they are the top 50 H1 recruiters to USA during 1996-2003, you can check for example this link,
http://www.garamchai.com/TopH1b.htm
http://www.dhishoom.com/pipermail/indojobs_dhishoom.com/2003-December/000038.html
.. So, it is not a company that is there for just for 2-3 years or some small company, so based on this, ace company may also may have thought they would get approvals using these substituted labors.. I mean, you also have made the same judgement... So, it seems, USCIS came up with a new law then that the 'ability to pay' for substituted labor should be from priority date itself.
All these rules by USCIS is nothing but, big CRAP..
First of all, they should not have allowed substituted labors.. but, they opened a can of worms and now more desperate people who are trying to maintain jobs and status will be SUCKERED in..
And these desperate people will blame their employer, lawyer if their I-140 is not approved, but it is infact they themselves that need to be blamed for not doing their own research about the companies and USCIS laws, that whether their case has a chance or not in front of MIGHTY USCIS..
I definetly agree with you that employer is responsible to pay and should not put an employee in difficult situation, but then the other solution is to fire him,right ??.. during 2001-2003 IT downturn, many of the american companies laid off their employees, but many other desi companies, tried to help these employeees by not revoking their H1. (should I say helped here ??, I mean they also could have fired by taking back their H1 status, like other big american corporations ). Then 245(k) came in, which is helping some of them who were out of status.
Anyway, coming to the first case regarding the ability to pay, according to their web site ace technologies has been their since 1993 and probably may have done atleast 200-300's of GC's till now, 300 may be too high, but this I am thinking because, they are the top 50 H1 recruiters to USA during 1996-2003, you can check for example this link,
http://www.garamchai.com/TopH1b.htm
http://www.dhishoom.com/pipermail/indojobs_dhishoom.com/2003-December/000038.html
.. So, it is not a company that is there for just for 2-3 years or some small company, so based on this, ace company may also may have thought they would get approvals using these substituted labors.. I mean, you also have made the same judgement... So, it seems, USCIS came up with a new law then that the 'ability to pay' for substituted labor should be from priority date itself.
All these rules by USCIS is nothing but, big CRAP..
First of all, they should not have allowed substituted labors.. but, they opened a can of worms and now more desperate people who are trying to maintain jobs and status will be SUCKERED in..
And these desperate people will blame their employer, lawyer if their I-140 is not approved, but it is infact they themselves that need to be blamed for not doing their own research about the companies and USCIS laws, that whether their case has a chance or not in front of MIGHTY USCIS..
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GreenCardVirus
Registered Users (C)
Nadi said:Yes we are protected if changed jobs after 180 days and USCIS accepts Ur AC-21 application..
I far as I can remember AC21 was a memorandum (I think upto May 12, 2005 atleast).
I would appreciate a link where it explains it into a Law...
Thanks
www.google.com, put in AC21.
why blame ACE or its lawyer?
Well the attorney/lawyer is hired to correctly interpret the laws and regulation and apply to our case. He is paid to give the legal advice before you file the case as he knows the laws and he has Ur case details with him.
If he is unable to correctly tell you the most probable outcome -- why do we pay them.. hmm paper work is not all that difficult.
The company -- ACE over here and its lawyers knew the status of the company .. The companies are supposed to abide by the rules and laws of the land -- however right or wrong they are at the given time.
How can we NOT blame them?
asdqwe2k2 said:Again, these two stupid rules were from USICS, I don't know how those who got their I-140 denied from this company can blame ACE or its lawyer, if USICS is strict on its policies..
Can anyone comment ?
Well the attorney/lawyer is hired to correctly interpret the laws and regulation and apply to our case. He is paid to give the legal advice before you file the case as he knows the laws and he has Ur case details with him.
If he is unable to correctly tell you the most probable outcome -- why do we pay them.. hmm paper work is not all that difficult.
The company -- ACE over here and its lawyers knew the status of the company .. The companies are supposed to abide by the rules and laws of the land -- however right or wrong they are at the given time.
How can we NOT blame them?