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***********So, Is our I-485 Litigation Over?*************
- Thread starter Rajiv S. Khanna
- Start date
Re: Let us talk coming Sunday, 2 MP Eastern Time
I think April 25, 2004 Sunday 2pm EST should be fine for most of us. I already scheduled the conference call. I'll mail the conference details. Please send e-mail to immigration_o2@yahoo.com to obtain conference details, also include immigrationportal id if you are member of this forum otherwise mention 'N/A' for member id.
Originally posted by operations
Does that work? I will also give an update on the litigation.
I think April 25, 2004 Sunday 2pm EST should be fine for most of us. I already scheduled the conference call. I'll mail the conference details. Please send e-mail to immigration_o2@yahoo.com to obtain conference details, also include immigrationportal id if you are member of this forum otherwise mention 'N/A' for member id.
Rajiv,
It might be slightly off topic, but look at the reponses of customer service people at VSC :
http://www.immigrationportal.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=123059
It might be slightly off topic, but look at the reponses of customer service people at VSC :
http://www.immigrationportal.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=123059
Re: Too many unknown parameters
Lot of personal friends who are concurrent filers called me up and
flaked me up...they believe that USCIS has good intentions in starting this new process.... to me whether they got good intentions or bad intentions does not matter but what matters is whether they thought seriously about the pros and cons before introducing a new scheme... some people attributed motives to me that I am arguing against because I am old filer...I want to clarify that I am not arguing against the new process because I am old filer...in fact I am not that mean...I genuinely feel that process will spell trouble for concurrent filers in the long run. In the immediate short run, some people might get benefit.
I think most people are still thinking that for concurrent filers get their I-485 when their I-140 is processed...that is the way the memo projected and what wonders me that why people are not thinking that they will get their I-140 when their I-485 comes up for adjudication...(the other way)...thereby subjecting to further tension...at least old filers are lucky that they can change jobs after I-140 ...
I also realised that some kind of "stockholm syndrome" has set us in...for those who does not know stockholm syndrome..I will explain in brief..
"The Stockholm syndrome is a psychological state in which the victims of a kidnapping, or persons detained against their free will - prisoners - develop a relationship with their captor(s). This solidarity can sometimes become a real complicity, with prisoners actually helping the captors to achieve their goals or to escape police...."
What are the symptoms for this syndrome...One can notice statements like
'`They have been harsh `only' to the young men.'' Notice the
word ``only''. This statement was from one of the victims after the release after six days in one of the hijackings...
I see something similar here...
"It is REALLY UNFORTUNATE that they haven't done ANYTHING for the real backlog(old) cases." ...implying that they are doing something good for others... "This might help future filers "..
I picked these statement here for a sample but I can see lot of similar statements floating...to me this kind of statements indicates we are losing out on our rational skills ...
Because of our long captiveness in the immigration process...we started looking everything as opportunity and in an emotional angle and in the process losing our ability to analyse in a rational way...it might apply to me ....
We are all victims whether old filer, concurrent filer or future filers... there is no point in differentiating ourselves...if the overall adjudication rates increases we all benefit else as a group we are not going to benefit at all .... in fact, this is a bottom less pit....
At the same time, let us not confuse about our real enemy...our enemy is not USCIS... but our enemy is the "inertia of USCIS"...
How to fight this "inertia of USCIS". One is definitely this law suit...but the law suit can take us to some point...we have to go beyond that point...as already discussed lets go to law makers, opinion makers and corporations in this country...
-rajum
Originally posted by dsatish
Pro side : They might have thought that the concurrent adjudication will bring down the over all time for adjudication. Keep in mind that CSC and TSC have just started (or about to start) 90 day adjudication for concurrent filers. I think that they will use the pilot program results to improve the process and when they are satisfied with the accuracy of the results, they will apply those procedures for all the concurrent cases. That's why they have issued orders to start treating concurrent cases separately from now. I think that it is definitely a good news for all concurrent filers.
...........................
Lot of personal friends who are concurrent filers called me up and
flaked me up...they believe that USCIS has good intentions in starting this new process.... to me whether they got good intentions or bad intentions does not matter but what matters is whether they thought seriously about the pros and cons before introducing a new scheme... some people attributed motives to me that I am arguing against because I am old filer...I want to clarify that I am not arguing against the new process because I am old filer...in fact I am not that mean...I genuinely feel that process will spell trouble for concurrent filers in the long run. In the immediate short run, some people might get benefit.
I think most people are still thinking that for concurrent filers get their I-485 when their I-140 is processed...that is the way the memo projected and what wonders me that why people are not thinking that they will get their I-140 when their I-485 comes up for adjudication...(the other way)...thereby subjecting to further tension...at least old filers are lucky that they can change jobs after I-140 ...
I also realised that some kind of "stockholm syndrome" has set us in...for those who does not know stockholm syndrome..I will explain in brief..
"The Stockholm syndrome is a psychological state in which the victims of a kidnapping, or persons detained against their free will - prisoners - develop a relationship with their captor(s). This solidarity can sometimes become a real complicity, with prisoners actually helping the captors to achieve their goals or to escape police...."
What are the symptoms for this syndrome...One can notice statements like
'`They have been harsh `only' to the young men.'' Notice the
word ``only''. This statement was from one of the victims after the release after six days in one of the hijackings...
I see something similar here...
"It is REALLY UNFORTUNATE that they haven't done ANYTHING for the real backlog(old) cases." ...implying that they are doing something good for others... "This might help future filers "..
I picked these statement here for a sample but I can see lot of similar statements floating...to me this kind of statements indicates we are losing out on our rational skills ...
Because of our long captiveness in the immigration process...we started looking everything as opportunity and in an emotional angle and in the process losing our ability to analyse in a rational way...it might apply to me ....
We are all victims whether old filer, concurrent filer or future filers... there is no point in differentiating ourselves...if the overall adjudication rates increases we all benefit else as a group we are not going to benefit at all .... in fact, this is a bottom less pit....
At the same time, let us not confuse about our real enemy...our enemy is not USCIS... but our enemy is the "inertia of USCIS"...
How to fight this "inertia of USCIS". One is definitely this law suit...but the law suit can take us to some point...we have to go beyond that point...as already discussed lets go to law makers, opinion makers and corporations in this country...
-rajum
Last edited by a moderator:
gc999999999
Registered Users (C)
Re: Re: Too many unknown parameters
RAJU
I AGREE WITH YOU....
Originally posted by rajum
Lot of personal friends who are concurrent filers called me up and
flaked me up...they believe that USCIS has good intentions in starting this new process.... to me whether they got good intentions or bad intentions does not matter but what matters is whether they thought seriously about the pros and cons before introducing a new scheme... some people attributed motives to me that I am arguing against because I am old filer...I want to clarify that I am not arguing against the new process because I am old filer...in fact I am not that mean...I genuinely feel that process will spell trouble for concurrent filers in the long run. In the immediate short run, some people might get benefit.
I think most people are still thinking that for concurrent filers get their I-485 when their I-140 is processed...that is the way the memo projected and what wonders me that why people are not thinking that they will get their I-140 when their I-485 comes up for adjudication...(the other way)...thereby subjecting to further tension...at least old filers are lucky that they can change jobs after I-140 ...
I also realised that some kind of "stockholm syndrome" has set us in...for those who does not know stockholm syndrome..I will explain in brief..
"The Stockholm syndrome is a psychological state in which the victims of a kidnapping, or persons detained against their free will - prisoners - develop a relationship with their captor(s). This solidarity can sometimes become a real complicity, with prisoners actually helping the captors to achieve their goals or to escape police...."
What are the symptoms for this syndrome...One can notice statements like
'`They have been harsh `only' to the young men.'' Notice the
word ``only''. This statement was from one of the victims after the release after six days in one of the hijackings...
I see something similar here...
"It is REALLY UNFORTUNATE that they haven't done ANYTHING for the real backlog(old) cases." ...implying that they are doing something good for others... "This might help future filers "..
I picked these statement here for a sample but I can see lot of similar statements floating...to me this kind of statements indicates we are losing out on our rational skills ...
Because of our long captiveness in the immigration process...we started looking everything as opportunity and in an emotional angle and in the process losing our ability to analyse in a rational way...it might apply to me ....
We are all victims whether old filer, concurrent filer or future filers... there is no point in differentiating ourselves...if the overall adjudication rates increases we all benefit else as a group we are not going to benefit at all .... in fact, this is a bottom less pit....
At the same time, let us not confuse about our real enemy...our enemy is not USCIS... but our enemy is the "inertia of USCIS"...
How to fight this "inertia of USCIS". One is definitely this law suit...but the law suit can take us to some point...we have to go beyond that point...as already discussed lets go to law makers, opinion makers and corporations in this country...
-rajum
RAJU
I AGREE WITH YOU....
Well said
Well said rajum. Good observations.
Obviously we do not know if all these initiatives will improve the process for say the concurrent filers. Time will show, but you are right in the sense that a single internal memo creates so much confusion. Only CIS benefits by improving their public and congressional opinion.
The heart of the problem is the timelineness of the application processing and elimination of backlogs, whether concurrent or not. The rule should be fairness of some sort. Apparently there is none. CIS is obviously following their own management principles with no accountability to nobody. At some point, 06 or later, they will eliminate backlogs by their own rules and regulations. In short, by the end of the decade we all should be getting our GCs in six months, whether some people just applied for it or did so A FEW YEARS BACK! This is their current policy, i.e. taking care of incoming applications FIRST will eventually create some space and time for the backlogged applicants. Not fair by any means!
The other way is off course to take care of old applications in parallel or first, which they are not doing.
Well said rajum. Good observations.
Obviously we do not know if all these initiatives will improve the process for say the concurrent filers. Time will show, but you are right in the sense that a single internal memo creates so much confusion. Only CIS benefits by improving their public and congressional opinion.
The heart of the problem is the timelineness of the application processing and elimination of backlogs, whether concurrent or not. The rule should be fairness of some sort. Apparently there is none. CIS is obviously following their own management principles with no accountability to nobody. At some point, 06 or later, they will eliminate backlogs by their own rules and regulations. In short, by the end of the decade we all should be getting our GCs in six months, whether some people just applied for it or did so A FEW YEARS BACK! This is their current policy, i.e. taking care of incoming applications FIRST will eventually create some space and time for the backlogged applicants. Not fair by any means!
The other way is off course to take care of old applications in parallel or first, which they are not doing.
CSC Pilot Program update
http://immigrationportal.com/showthread.php?s=&postid=760412#post760412
The CSC Pilot Program is another one but similar one.
You can see how USCIS is discriminating long-waiting applicants.
http://immigrationportal.com/showthread.php?s=&postid=760412#post760412
The CSC Pilot Program is another one but similar one.
You can see how USCIS is discriminating long-waiting applicants.
CIS new policies or procedures will never make us happy since all their prior attempts failed. We need a immigration policy change by US government. Policies will be immigration friendly only if non-citizens also have voting rights (some cities already have...........). This is election year, so as we move ahead we'll see only citizenship backlog reduction plan and Family based GC backlog reduction plan.
Originally posted by Edison
CIS new policies or procedures will never make us happy since all their prior attempts failed. We need a immigration policy change by US government. Policies will be immigration friendly only if non-citizens also have voting rights (some cities already have...........). This is election year, so as we move ahead we'll see only citizenship backlog reduction plan and Family based GC backlog reduction plan.
Edison,
Unfortunately, I am finding on the other side of aisle with you in this thread....CIS new policies will satisfy us if it says that:
i) No multiple EAD, AP and FP
ii) Overtime policy as said by Cinta
iii) Interim GC after six months....
As we all know, for these things we need not go to Congress....
Our ability lies in convincing or forcing USCIS to get these policies or procedures out rather than cosmetic changes like the current proposal....
-rajum
Originally posted by rajum
Edison,
Unfortunately, I am finding on the other side of aisle with you in this thread....CIS new policies will satisfy us if it says that:
i) No multiple EAD, AP and FP
ii) Overtime policy as said by Cinta
iii) Interim GC after six months....
As we all know, for these things we need not go to Congress....
Our ability lies in convincing or forcing USCIS to get these policies or procedures out rather than cosmetic changes like the current proposal....
-rajum
for iii) I assume government intervention is required.
Re: contribution
Thanks. Hopefully more people can donate today at www.immigrationportal.org to fight the I485 backlogs. As of now we have collected around $8500. We definitely want to see a minimum of around 30K fund to achieve our objectives.
Here is a related link for fund collection :
http://www.immigrationportal.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=122531
Sorry for the off topic. Let's continue with the discussions on new Memo.
Originally posted by ny178
Guys,
I have contributed a small amount for project ocean. Could you let us know how much money may be required so that we contribute some more funds if required.
Lets have this struggle to-gether.
Thanks. Hopefully more people can donate today at www.immigrationportal.org to fight the I485 backlogs. As of now we have collected around $8500. We definitely want to see a minimum of around 30K fund to achieve our objectives.
Here is a related link for fund collection :
http://www.immigrationportal.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=122531
Sorry for the off topic. Let's continue with the discussions on new Memo.
hidden_dragon
Registered Users (C)
I like these sentences:
"Even though we say we want immigrants to go through the legal process and not come here illegally, we make the legal process as cumbersome and difficult as we can," said Rep. Howard Berman, D-Van Nuys.
"Even though we say we want immigrants to go through the legal process and not come here illegally, we make the legal process as cumbersome and difficult as we can," said Rep. Howard Berman, D-Van Nuys.
Originally posted by rajum
Edison,
Unfortunately, I am finding on the other side of aisle with you in this thread....CIS new policies will satisfy us if it says that:
i) No multiple EAD, AP and FP
ii) Overtime policy as said by Cinta
iii) Interim GC after six months....
As we all know, for these things we need not go to Congress....
Our ability lies in convincing or forcing USCIS to get these policies or procedures out rather than cosmetic changes like the current proposal....
-rajum
Hello rajum,
They can contract out several aspects/parts of the process like the Security Checks. DOL is contracting out the LC backlogs in two facilities, in NYC and Dallas.
I do not believe they EVER sincerely acknowledged the problem and its implications. They advertise the Elimination of Adopted Children as a success for BACKLOGS!!! Not to mention the "every applicant should receive the right benefit at the right time"!
Voting: Voting for school election and city elections is better than nothing but even in NYC is not so easy to pass..These people do not become Citizens, anyway. Even if they join the US Army they can only be soldiers, not officers or join the SEALS! What would be more important is an easier way to Citizenship for all, than spending months on how to better the Oath itself. They cannot vote in National elections and get the Citizenship benefits in full.
Government: The Executive, legislature and Judicial branches have channels of communication.
Congress can pass a lot of things even by bypassing its own regulations and procedures (fast-track)when they want to. See DHS advises Congress to pass/extend legislation for Biometric passports, etc. The President has also Executive powers for immediate relief in several ways, through Congress or not. So, if something requires Congressional approval, so what? Advise Congress to do so in a fast-track way.
FIFO: CIS has in the past indicated that due to the Security Checks taking different times for applicants, there is no real FIFO. Nobody complained, so they are taking it to the Nth degree..
USCIS is non-committal about processing time of new product line
USCIS is non-committal about processing time of new product line
Here are two paragraphs that would be relevant to what we have been talking about the impact of concurrent I-140/485 filing. The excerpts have been taken from NSC Updates 04/20/04 posted at:
http://www.immigration.com/newsletter1/nsc200404.html
Concurrent adjudication of concurrently-filed I-140s/I-485s will begin on April 30, 2004.
As directed by HQ's memo of March 31, 2004, concurrent adjudication of concurrently-filed I-140s/I-485s will begin on April 30, 2004. The memo also directs that concurrent processing will be based upon the receipt date of the I-140. In the interest of customer service, the goal at the NSC will be to keep the processing times for the "stand-alone" I-140s and the concurrently-filed I-140s/I-485s the same. [I think it at least NSC is aware of the fact that there would be widespread resentment among old filers if the concurrent filers do get adjudicated prior to older applications.] This goal may not be realized in the short term due to processing changes and training requirements.
I-140 reorganization not a part of the 75 - day pilot program
The I-140 "reorganization" and planned concurrent processing proposal is not part of the 75-day pilot program [The down side concurrent filers is that NSC is non-committal about concurrent filers adjudication. It would mean the concurrent filers would not get I-140 and it’s derivatives e.g. AP, EAD, AC-21. I hope it would not be that way but if it is , it would be bad. ] Due to incongruent I-140 category processing dates and employee training issues, exact processing arrangements are still under consideration. Implementation of the provisions of the memo is to occur on or about April 30, 2004.
I was also talking to my attorney few minutes back. Per her; the concurrent filers are who filed concurrently AND both I-140 and I-485 are still pending. So even if one filed concurrently but I-140 is approved, it would not come under this new product line.
USCIS is non-committal about processing time of new product line
Here are two paragraphs that would be relevant to what we have been talking about the impact of concurrent I-140/485 filing. The excerpts have been taken from NSC Updates 04/20/04 posted at:
http://www.immigration.com/newsletter1/nsc200404.html
Concurrent adjudication of concurrently-filed I-140s/I-485s will begin on April 30, 2004.
As directed by HQ's memo of March 31, 2004, concurrent adjudication of concurrently-filed I-140s/I-485s will begin on April 30, 2004. The memo also directs that concurrent processing will be based upon the receipt date of the I-140. In the interest of customer service, the goal at the NSC will be to keep the processing times for the "stand-alone" I-140s and the concurrently-filed I-140s/I-485s the same. [I think it at least NSC is aware of the fact that there would be widespread resentment among old filers if the concurrent filers do get adjudicated prior to older applications.] This goal may not be realized in the short term due to processing changes and training requirements.
I-140 reorganization not a part of the 75 - day pilot program
The I-140 "reorganization" and planned concurrent processing proposal is not part of the 75-day pilot program [The down side concurrent filers is that NSC is non-committal about concurrent filers adjudication. It would mean the concurrent filers would not get I-140 and it’s derivatives e.g. AP, EAD, AC-21. I hope it would not be that way but if it is , it would be bad. ] Due to incongruent I-140 category processing dates and employee training issues, exact processing arrangements are still under consideration. Implementation of the provisions of the memo is to occur on or about April 30, 2004.
I was also talking to my attorney few minutes back. Per her; the concurrent filers are who filed concurrently AND both I-140 and I-485 are still pending. So even if one filed concurrently but I-140 is approved, it would not come under this new product line.
Policy change
I will be happy for something in this line.
1) Make H1B equivalent to EAD valid for 3 years, provided salary requirements are met and job category remains the same. H1B holder should notify CIS on changing job through a online system.
2) H1B renewable by person after 3 years if had job for substantial portion of the period and fulfilled salary requirement.
This will solve the most part of our suffering. Rest of the problems will solve itself.
Originally posted by Edison
CIS new policies or procedures will never make us happy since all their prior attempts failed. We need a immigration policy change by US government. Policies will be immigration friendly only if non-citizens also have voting rights (some cities already have...........). This is election year, so as we move ahead we'll see only citizenship backlog reduction plan and Family based GC backlog reduction plan.
I will be happy for something in this line.
1) Make H1B equivalent to EAD valid for 3 years, provided salary requirements are met and job category remains the same. H1B holder should notify CIS on changing job through a online system.
2) H1B renewable by person after 3 years if had job for substantial portion of the period and fulfilled salary requirement.
This will solve the most part of our suffering. Rest of the problems will solve itself.
Originally posted by Edison
CIS new policies or procedures will never make us happy since all their prior attempts failed. We need a immigration policy change by US government. Policies will be immigration friendly only if non-citizens also have voting rights (some cities already have...........). This is election year, so as we move ahead we'll see only citizenship backlog reduction plan and Family based GC backlog reduction plan.
If they give us right to vote, the problem will be solved automatically. but getting right to vote for alien is probably an impossible mission.
nagpurichokra
Registered Users (C)
Only way non-citizens can influence the political decisions (like APAC, etc) is through fund raiser for targeted senate and congress members on Immigration standing committiees like Sen Chambers and Sen Hatch. Only power other than vote is money, which can influence the voters. Getting Greencard is not a right, its privilidge and we should be grateful and thankful to USA and their kind citizens.
-NC
-NC
Originally posted by nagpurichokra
Only way non-citizens can influence the political decisions (like APAC, etc) is through fund raiser for targeted senate and congress members on Immigration standing committiees like Sen Chambers and Sen Hatch. Only power other than vote is money, which can influence the voters. Getting Greencard is not a right, its privilidge and we should be grateful and thankful to USA and their kind citizens.
-NC
it is mutually beneficial. US gives us this "privilage" not because they are "kind" it is because it demands aliens to boost its economy. the reason that they are slowing down the process is most likely because the country currently is not on high demand of aliens. CIS probably faces a lot of public and political pressure to reduce immigrants though they always try to find some other reasons.