Should we still carry the green card domestically

A

AmericanWannabe

Registered Users (C)
Should we still carry the green card domestically if passport stamp is
phased out? In viewing risk and benefits reagarding whether we
should carry the green card, apparently the risk factor earns a bigger
weight if there is no passport stamp.

If you lose you rgreen card, the worst thing is to apply for a replacement
and inthe mean time you use your passport stamp. But without passport stamp, it means you can not travel internationally for more than one
year.
 
The law states to have the GC in our possessions @ all times. It doesn't necessary means to have it in our shirt pocket or jacket or in the pocket of our denim jeans (does jeans have to be 'wrangler'?).

If those who want to be paranoid about it, pls carry it. Otherwise, keep it safe @ home and always accessible.

ps: it is good to post again after a hibernating season. Just was lazy to post (yawn.. ;) )
 
This has been debated many times. I opened the thread
meant to ask opnions about the effect of INS obsoleting
passport stamp on the necessicity of carrying the
card.

If you don't carry it anyway no matter what, then it seems it
does not matter. If you carry it anyway no matter waht, then
it does not matter either.

But there are some people in teh middle who weighs benefits
and risk of carrying the card. This new passport stamp
policy may tip them to not carrying the card. I want to
hears thoughts on this.

It is just like now who will be in the next president
is in hands of those fencing riding people. What
Keyy and Bush will do in the next 2 weeks
dose not6 matter to people who already made up
their minds.
 
From USCIS website.....

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Permanent Resident Card
The Permanent Resident Card, Form I-551, is issued to all Permanent Residents as evidence of alien registration and their permanent status in the US. The card must be in your possession at all times. While that does not require that you have on your person at all times, it does require that you have a currently valid card and that you know where it is and can show it to an immigration officer, if requested.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
 
ar888 said:
From USCIS website.....

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Permanent Resident Card
The Permanent Resident Card, Form I-551, is issued to all Permanent Residents as evidence of alien registration and their permanent status in the US. The card must be in your possession at all times. While that does not require that you have on your person at all times, it does require that you have a currently valid card and that you know where it is and can show it to an immigration officer, if requested.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
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As mentioned by others there is this document (and not a law) and there is INA 264(e), which is a law. Now, use your own judgement whether to carry your green card always or not.
Personally speaking, I don't carry my green card always. However, I carry it whenever I travel - boarding on domenstic flights or just driving somewhere else (long distance). I do this weighing two risk-factors - risk of getting questioned about citizenship status and risk loosing my card. It's unlikely that my city or neighbor city cop is going to ask for my citizenship status. But if tomorrow situation changes, probably I have to think about carrying GC always.
On the other hand, while boarding domenstic flights I was never asked for my citizenship status and I never had to show my green card. DL works always. But I just won't want to spoil my holidays just because I am not carrying my GC.
 
JoeF said:
Well, yeah, that is ... at odds with the actual law
Click to expand...

No. It is not at Odds with the Law. The CIS website explains the law as it is, simple and clear. I find JoeF guilty of a sleazy misinterpretation.
 
daJudge said:
No. It is not at Odds with the Law. The CIS website explains the law as it is, simple and clear. I find JoeF guilty of a sleazy misinterpretation.
Click to expand...

I think the document in USCIS website does not deal with INA 264 at all. It just talks about and from a perspective of immigration related issue (and that's why it says only "immigration officer", not any other kind of law enforcement agency). But there are lots of experiences (including forum members) where non-immigration officers (not-a-immigration officer) asked for citizenship status.
 
ar888 said:
it does require that you have a currently valid card and that you know where it is and can show it to an immigration officer, if requested.
Click to expand...


This is subject to interpretations. If you drive to
A Wal-Mart 5 miles away and is stopped by
a home land security officer and is asked for
a green card, you tell the officer :"Please wait
here, I'll go home to get my card", the officer
may think that you do not meet teh criterion
"can show it to an immigration officer, if
requested".

The officer may not want to come with you to your home either.
 
AmericanWannabe said:
This is subject to interpretations. If you drive to
A Wal-Mart 5 miles away and is stopped by
a home land security officer and is asked for
a green card, you tell the officer :"Please wait
here, I'll go home to get my card", the officer
may think that you do not meet teh criterion
"can show it to an immigration officer, if
requested".

The officer may not want to come with you to your home either.
Click to expand...

Hmmm, Wal-Mart, DHS officer just can't find them (because "Store Locator" link is not working at wal-mart website) :D :D :D
 
my tuppence...

joe is right, the *law* obliges an alien to carry the gc on their person; yet, the directives regarding this on the uscis website seem at odds with the law.

let's say in a hypothetical case, an alien charged with violation of this law (i.e. not being able to produce their g.c. upon request since it was not on their person) could cite the website contents to a judge, who might rule that the uscis is itself guilty of equivocation, if not outright misinformation, on the law.

an ordinary citizen could plausibly look to a government agency website to learn about public laws/regulations/procedures under the purview of that agency. equally, the government agency responsible for that website should be expected to disseminate correct information via all of their publications, including websites. moreover, the government itself is encouraging the use of the internet for such purposes; example, the "egov" initiatives.

if an agency has failed to do that, then the benefit should go to the alien - and now for the *really* hypothetical part - assuming, of course, that the alien thus charged is allowed their due process rights.
 
It is said the mistake of the law is not a defense in courts.
It is the defedant's responsibility to know the law.

On the other hand, the mistake of teh fact is a defense.
If you think you have the card in your wallet
and then find out out you don't have it in your
wallet when asked by an immi officer, then you
should not be found guilty.
 
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color photocopying and laminating - the act itself.

question for daJudge or JoeF: if I merely color photocopy the PR Card and laminate it (which will make it look like a real card to a novice person). And for e.g. if I carry it with me all times ...and for e.g. if I show it to somebody if asked (and clarifying it is just a copy) ... this mere act is not called 'forgery' right ?
 
litmu said:
question for daJudge or JoeF: if I merely color photocopy the PR Card and laminate it (which will make it look like a real card to a novice person). And for e.g. if I carry it with me all times ...and for e.g. if I show it to somebody if asked (and clarifying it is just a copy) ... this mere act is not called 'forgery' right ?
Click to expand...

Legally, it's not OK to carry copy. Legally, you must carry original. However, it's possible that some officer can find photocopy satisfactory for his/her purpose (basically it's upto the officer).
If you do photocopy and laminate, put a big "PHOTOCOPY" mark on it, just to make your intention clear.
 
AmericanWannabe said:
It is said the mistake of the law is not a defense in courts.
Click to expand...
if that were true, then courts would not throw out otherwise perfectly airtight cases on technicalities resulting from mistakes on the part of law enforcement authorities, such as failure by arresting officers to follow proper procedure, conducting unauthorized searches etc.

courts treat defendents and law-enforcers as equal parties in a suit. if one of them slips up (didn't read miranda rights, posted misleading/vague info on website etc.), the benefit goes to the other party.

AmericanWannabe said:
It is the defedant's responsibility to know the law.
Click to expand...
the issue would not be whether or not the defendant knew the law, but whether or not USCIS, in some way, misled the defendant by publishing inaccurate or vague information on their website. the defendant could claim that they did make a good-faith attempt to find out the pertaining rules and regulations, came across the cited content on USCIS's website, and took it as gospel, for there could be no earthly reason to doubt or double-check immigration-related regulation after seeing it on the USCIS.GOV website. the lacuna is clearly on the part of the USCIS.

***

of course, the caveat always is that the court should be willing to be impartial and fair. we have seen when someone screams "national security" loudly enough, good judges cower.
 
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JoeF said:
Hmm, what happens if you think you have your drivers license with you, and then you get stopped by a police officer. I think you still have to pay a fine if you don't have your license with you...
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Traffic laws are made strict liability law by some causes or maybe
some court decisions. Unless the same thing is said about
this INA 264, one has to have malice intent (Men Srea in Latin?).
 
I find the discussion humorous and the ferver funny.

Just out of curiousity, how long have you been in the US and how many times have you had an immigration officer ask you for anything (obviously this does not include going to their offices)

I've been here 5 1/2 yrs and apart from international travel, I've never had to produce anything and I don't know how many times I've passed through San Onofre (southern Cali - illegal Mexican checkpoint) and have never been asked about anything.

So I can't imagine carrying my green card with me domestically - I'd be more afraid about losing it or having my wallet stolen.
 
Pork Chop said:
the issue would not be whether or not the defendant knew the law, but whether or not USCIS, in some way, misled the defendant by publishing inaccurate or vague information on their website
Click to expand...

As I said, that info on website is vague and subject to interpretation.
It says you must be able to show teh card to an HLS officer if he
ask for it. Maybe it means you don't have to carry it when
you are within walking distance from the gren card such as
when you take out your trash

If you go to work 10 mile from home and is stopped by a Homeland security
officer, how can you say you can show it to the officer
 
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Do I need to get passport stamped ??

Hi
I got the green card itself and our passports were not stamped by SFO office due to system error they had. After waiting for 1 1/2 months we got the green cards itself. Now I'm not sure whether we need to get the passports stamped also ?? Please reply.
thanks
--
 
JoeF said:
Relying on any website is of course a problem. This is similar to "it is in the paper, so it must be true" of old.
Interesting strategy. I think I have come across something like this, although not immigration related (don't quote me on it, though.) While the judge was sympathetic, it didn't help.
Click to expand...

I know a guy who bought a gun. He asked the local police
how he could carry it without the license. The cop
told him to put it inth etrunk
 
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