Question on N400

L

Latin101

Registered Users (C)
I am filling out the N400 (the fillable PDF makes it much easier!), and have a question I hope someone can help me with. There's this question:

"Have you ever been a member of or associated with any organization, association, fund foundation, party, club, society or simiar group in the United States or any other place?"

What are they looking for here? I mean, how many of you have kept record of all this kind of stuff since - say, your childhood? What do you put in? Suppose you are a member of a Pingpong club, do you fill that in? You donated $20 to the local fire department, do you fill it in? You were a member of scout sort of organization when you were 5, do you fill it in? Thanks for any insight in advance.
 
Thanks. Problem is some of the things don't have records whatsoever and can't recall even the basic information. Would you disclose something with very limited information and have nothing to substantiate it?
 
Latin101 said:
Would you disclose something with very limited information and have nothing to substantiate it?
Click to expand...

As I recall you would have been asked the same question for your GC. My take on that question was that if I have paid an annual, quarterly etc. subscription to a club or group then that's the stuff I declared. Giving 20-bucks to the fire brigade is not joining an association
 
well, it qualified you as "associated with". I get your point though. I should disclose "as much as possible" I guess.
 
Latin101 said:
Thanks. Problem is some of the things don't have records whatsoever and can't recall even the basic information. Would you disclose something with very limited information and have nothing to substantiate it?
Click to expand...

I did, on my I-485. I was a member of a Canadian political party, and was asked in my interview if I was still a member. I said no, and that was that.
 
More than half of college students in certain countries (current or ex-communist
countries) joined organizations associated with Communist
Party starting with Young VanGuard, Youth Leagure etc. Most of them
did not mention it in I-485 and N-400. I have yet to see one case anyone
got his GC or citizenship revoked like ex-Nazi. I can bet a lot of people
due to competition, jealousy etc send a tip trying to do harm to other
people they try to hurt. USCIS perhaps does not care.

If USCIS does not care about above, then it could not care less about other political
organizations except Nazi and terrorist groups
 
WBH said:
More than half of college students in certain countries (current or ex-communist
countries) joined organizations associated with Communist
Party starting with Young VanGuard, Youth Leagure etc. Most of them
did not mention it in I-485 and N-400. I have yet to see one case anyone
got his GC or citizenship revoked like ex-Nazi. I can bet a lot of people
due to competition, jealousy etc send a tip trying to do harm to other
people they try to hurt. USCIS perhaps does not care.

If USCIS does not care about above, then it could not care less about other political
organizations except Nazi and terrorist groups
Click to expand...

Past association to communist party needs to be disclosed. Just because some withheld this on application doesn't make it right.
 
Bobsmyth said:
Past association to communist party needs to be disclosed. Just because some withheld this on application doesn't make it right.
Click to expand...

You can lobby USCIS to do investigation. You and perhaps everyone else
who are not affected willl be better off in the job market if USCIS really can
carry the investigation out and revoke GC and citizenships of those who did
withheld this kind of information.

When it is not practical for lies to be detected, then honest people suffer.
So why bother? It is up to individual to decide.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
WBH said:
You can lobby USCIS to do investigation. You and perhaps everyone else
who are not affected willl be better off in the job market if USCIS really can
carry the investigation out and revoke GC and citizenships of those who did
withheld this kind of information
Click to expand...

Disclosing the fact that one held membership in the communist does not automatically result in a denial. However, lying on your application by withholding this information is grounds for possible future denationalization. USCIS already conducts routine audits of past applications so no need for me to petition them to do so.
 
Bobsmyth said:
Disclosing the fact that one held membership in the communist does not automatically result in a denial. However, lying on your application by withholding this information is grounds for possible future denationalization. USCIS already conducts routine audits of past applications so no need for me to petition them to do so.
Click to expand...

Audit will never find out this kind of facts. Facts can only be disclosed only by applicants' past aquaintances and USCIS must take their words even if they bother to locate such former aquantants of each applicant from these countries. Or the countries where these applicant came from must cooperate
I doubt even Poland, Ceck, Slovakia , Hungary and Germany would
even bother to cooperate let alone Russia and China.

Even if few do get trouble because these, it is only because they are
unlucky or perhaps even more honest than others.
 
WBH said:
Audit will never find out this kind of facts. Facts can only be disclosed only by applicants' past aquaintances and USCIS must take their words even if they bother to locate such former aquantants of each applicant from these countries. Or the countries where these applicant came from must cooperate
I doubt even Poland, Ceck, Slovakia , Hungary and Germany would
even bother to cooperate let alone Russia and China.

Even if few do get trouble because these, it is only because they are
unlucky or perhaps even more honest than others.
Click to expand...

Perhaps you need to read up on some court cases that have denationalized naturalized citizens on the basis of past concealment of communist party membership to convince yourself otherwise.


http://bulk.resource.org/courts.gov/c/F2/322/322.F2d.21.17850.html

http://supreme.justia.com/us/364/426/case.html

http://caselaw.lp.findlaw.com/cgi-bin/getcase.pl?court=us&vol=351&invol=91
 
Bobsmyth said:
Perhaps you need to read up on some court cases that have denationalized naturalized citizens on the basis of past concealment of communist party membership to convince yourself otherwise.


http://bulk.resource.org/courts.gov/c/F2/322/322.F2d.21.17850.html

http://supreme.justia.com/us/364/426/case.html

http://caselaw.lp.findlaw.com/cgi-bin/getcase.pl?court=us&vol=351&invol=91
Click to expand...

These are old cases before 1965 while Communist movement was still viable.
They had no bearing on present situation.

I need a case after the Berlin Wall fell and the cold war ended and the case
should be about a person who would otherwise fine except for this matter
 
Bobsmyth said:
Perhaps you need to read up on some court cases that have denationalized naturalized citizens on the basis of past concealment of communist party membership to convince yourself otherwise.
Click to expand...

I won't convince myself until I see mass-denatualization or mass-GC revocation; otherwise at most a very few get unlucky whose chance
is smaller than that of a fatal car accident. So for practical reasons,
this is not an issue.

ps: I don't have this problem
 
WBH said:
These are old cases before 1965 while Communist movement was still viable.
They had no bearing on present situation.

I need a case after the Berlin Wall fell and the cold war ended and the case
should be about a person who would otherwise fine except for this matter
Click to expand...

They are court precedents and can be used in current cases just as well. The point is that not disclosing a materiel fact can lead to greater troubles down the line.
 
Bobsmyth said:
They are court precedents and can be used in current cases just as well. The point is that not disclosing a materiel fact can lead to greater troubles down the line.
Click to expand...

Many people would take that miniscule risk to avoid trouble. Life is risk-free
and they want to take the risk
 
WBH said:
Many people would take that miniscule risk to avoid trouble. Life is risk-free
and they want to take the risk
Click to expand...

It becomes a personnel choice they must live with for the rest of their life.
Just look how many years it took them to denaturalize past nazi criminal who withheld this information many years ago.

Here's a recent denaturalization (albeit posthumously) of a naturalized who didn't disclose past communist ties.

http://thomas.loc.gov/cgi-bin/query/z?c107:H.R.5737.IH:
 
Bobsmyth said:
It becomes a personnel choice they must live with for the rest of their life.
Just look how many years it took them to denaturalize past nazi criminal who withheld this information many years ago.

Here's a recent denaturalization (albeit posthumously) of a naturalized who didn't disclose past communist ties.

http://thomas.loc.gov/cgi-bin/query/z?c107:H.R.5737.IH:
Click to expand...

That is because he tortured and persecuted a lot of people
and these people wanted him out. If he was a ordinary party
memeber perhaps he would not be noticed. It all depends.

It is also a big difference if the person is
a Party memeber or just a member like Young Vanguard,
Youth Organization associated with the party. Since most
young people in such society are such memember,
likelihood of people exposing each other is not that high
for apprent reason
 
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