Philadelphia Backlog Elimination Center Tracking

JustWatching said:
Hello all,

I logged in today to see what was going on in the forum and saw some discussion about the tracker and its accuracy to predict. Here are some thoughts...

Are their enough entries in the tracker to make it statistically accurate?
Yes and no. Yes, there are enough cases to make Regional cases statistically accurate. In fact, I once compared the flcdatacenter.com database to the tracker and it was remarkably representative.
No. There are still not enough SWA cases to make them statistically accurate. I believe we would need about 1,000 more SWA cases to make it statistically accurate.

Is the tracker representative?
Two issues. 1) Non-professional LCs are very likely not represented in the tracker. 2) Abandoned LCs are obviously not represented in the tracker. This could be the older cases, especially Non-RIR.

So what good is the tracker?
Well, while not entirely statistically accurate it does give a good representation of what is happening. And, it also proves the "negative", e.g. no FIFO, DPBC is not processing SWA cases (in any meaningful manner), etc. Most important - it tells many they are not alone.

Can you use the tracker to support a lawsuit?
IMHO, not really. I think you would need permission from everyone on tracker. As saknia said I think you would need people to volunteer their information for that specific purpose.

My opinion on the lawsuit
1 - Lack of FIFO will be supported by the BPCs based on the fact that states had different processes before being centralized and it would be unfair to the beneficiaries to treat us differently (aren't we glad they have our best interest in mind - that is a sarcastic comment by the way). PBPC is clearly splitting processing by state.
2 - Lack of FIFO will be supported by operational complexities not expected before processing began.
3 - Number crunching is an art, not a science. I would be surprised if the BPCs could not come up with a formula that said they would complete backlog processing by the end of 2007 (just as they estimated back in March 2005). They will excuse themselves, saying past performance is not an indication of future performance because - a) they will no longer be using resources to issue 45 day letters and b) examiners will get better over time. Both arguments true by the way.
4 - So is there a remote chance of actually winning the lawsuit? Well, my thought is - does it really matter? File the lawsuit in a couple months, 3-6 months to get a verdict (optimistic timeframe). So you get an outcome sometime in late 2006. Two outcomes: a) You win. To make it better you need more money, so go to congress get the money, hire more people, train them, process faster. It's now mid 2007. b) You lose. But at least now the issues at the BPC are brought to light. Some improvements in 2007.
5 - To all those who think lack of FIFO is unfair - I agree (hey my PD is Nov/2001) but I can also give you reasons why it shouldn't be FIFO.
6 - To all those who say that at the current pace they will not finish before 2007 - prove it. I don't mean to be a jerk about this but honestly, someone get me figures that prove that BPCs will actually not finish by the end of 2007. We don't have them. I wish I did but we don't.
7 - Filing a lawsuit can't hurt.

BTW, I look forward to constructive and civilized criticism of my comments above. I have seen in the past few days as we always get on this thread every few months some "smart" people that think that arguing is about using foul language and insulting others, to them I say this: why are you even here? You clearly are adding no value to the forum and you clearly know more than any of us so why waste your time with us ignorant people.

Good luck to everyone and I hope you get your LC soon.
Click to expand...


Hi Justwatching

This is excellent analysis.

I would like to question few of your points ( will catch up on that later)
 
Can I fire my lawyer?

My lawyer got my 45-day letter and replied it back last Dec. But he never told me even when I asked him about that a few times. Finally he faxed me yesterday that he has replied my 45-day letter to PBEC. I really hated him! I have worried about it for a few month since my case number was changed from "T-xxxxx" to "P-xxxxx" in November 2005. Can I fire him at the stage of 140/485? Any effects for the 140/485 application? Such an idiot laywer and only money-eater. This world would be better if this type of vampire extincts.
 
JustWatching said:
Hello all,

I logged in today to see what was going on in the forum and saw some discussion about the tracker and its accuracy to predict. Here are some thoughts...

Are their enough entries in the tracker to make it statistically accurate?
Yes and no. Yes, there are enough cases to make Regional cases statistically accurate. In fact, I once compared the flcdatacenter.com database to the tracker and it was remarkably representative.
No. There are still not enough SWA cases to make them statistically accurate. I believe we would need about 1,000 more SWA cases to make it statistically accurate.

Is the tracker representative?
Two issues. 1) Non-professional LCs are very likely not represented in the tracker. 2) Abandoned LCs are obviously not represented in the tracker. This could be the older cases, especially Non-RIR.

So what good is the tracker?
Well, while not entirely statistically accurate it does give a good representation of what is happening. And, it also proves the "negative", e.g. no FIFO, DPBC is not processing SWA cases (in any meaningful manner), etc. Most important - it tells many they are not alone.

Can you use the tracker to support a lawsuit?
IMHO, not really. I think you would need permission from everyone on tracker. As saknia said I think you would need people to volunteer their information for that specific purpose.

My opinion on the lawsuit
1 - Lack of FIFO will be supported by the BPCs based on the fact that states had different processes before being centralized and it would be unfair to the beneficiaries to treat us differently (aren't we glad they have our best interest in mind - that is a sarcastic comment by the way). PBPC is clearly splitting processing by state.
2 - Lack of FIFO will be supported by operational complexities not expected before processing began.
3 - Number crunching is an art, not a science. I would be surprised if the BPCs could not come up with a formula that said they would complete backlog processing by the end of 2007 (just as they estimated back in March 2005). They will excuse themselves, saying past performance is not an indication of future performance because - a) they will no longer be using resources to issue 45 day letters and b) examiners will get better over time. Both arguments true by the way.
4 - So is there a remote chance of actually winning the lawsuit? Well, my thought is - does it really matter? File the lawsuit in a couple months, 3-6 months to get a verdict (optimistic timeframe). So you get an outcome sometime in late 2006. Two outcomes: a) You win. To make it better you need more money, so go to congress get the money, hire more people, train them, process faster. It's now mid 2007. b) You lose. But at least now the issues at the BPC are brought to light. Some improvements in 2007.
5 - To all those who think lack of FIFO is unfair - I agree (hey my PD is Nov/2001) but I can also give you reasons why it shouldn't be FIFO.
6 - To all those who say that at the current pace they will not finish before 2007 - prove it. I don't mean to be a jerk about this but honestly, someone get me figures that prove that BPCs will actually not finish by the end of 2007. We don't have them. I wish I did but we don't.
7 - Filing a lawsuit can't hurt.

BTW, I look forward to constructive and civilized criticism of my comments above. I have seen in the past few days as we always get on this thread every few months some "smart" people that think that arguing is about using foul language and insulting others, to them I say this: why are you even here? You clearly are adding no value to the forum and you clearly know more than any of us so why waste your time with us ignorant people.

Good luck to everyone and I hope you get your LC soon.
Click to expand...


Very nicely put.
Do u seriosly think that law suit will make a difference.
As far as i can see we have these issues with the law suit...

1. As saknia had mentioned in the previous thread that LC is Employers perrogative. Most of us will not be able to file the suit unless we involve the employers too and that is the biggest hurdle.

2. Moreover these lawsuits will most likely be against DOL as i do not know if we can file the suit just against PBEC. what do u think?? If its against DOL then most likely it will all be thrown out because of the PERM and BECs.

3. All the data we have so far is not from official sources. Unless we get the data from official sources , will not be able to make a case.

By the way, the last time u mailed, u said were preparing for interviews. I hope u were successful in ur effort.
 
JustWatching said:
Hello all,

I logged in today to see what was going on in the forum and saw some discussion about the tracker and its accuracy to predict. Here are some thoughts...

Are their enough entries in the tracker to make it statistically accurate?
Yes and no. Yes, there are enough cases to make Regional cases statistically accurate. In fact, I once compared the flcdatacenter.com database to the tracker and it was remarkably representative.
No. There are still not enough SWA cases to make them statistically accurate. I believe we would need about 1,000 more SWA cases to make it statistically accurate.

Is the tracker representative?
Two issues. 1) Non-professional LCs are very likely not represented in the tracker. 2) Abandoned LCs are obviously not represented in the tracker. This could be the older cases, especially Non-RIR.

So what good is the tracker?
Well, while not entirely statistically accurate it does give a good representation of what is happening. And, it also proves the "negative", e.g. no FIFO, DPBC is not processing SWA cases (in any meaningful manner), etc. Most important - it tells many they are not alone.

Can you use the tracker to support a lawsuit?
IMHO, not really. I think you would need permission from everyone on tracker. As saknia said I think you would need people to volunteer their information for that specific purpose.

My opinion on the lawsuit
1 - Lack of FIFO will be supported by the BPCs based on the fact that states had different processes before being centralized and it would be unfair to the beneficiaries to treat us differently (aren't we glad they have our best interest in mind - that is a sarcastic comment by the way). PBPC is clearly splitting processing by state.
2 - Lack of FIFO will be supported by operational complexities not expected before processing began.
3 - Number crunching is an art, not a science. I would be surprised if the BPCs could not come up with a formula that said they would complete backlog processing by the end of 2007 (just as they estimated back in March 2005). They will excuse themselves, saying past performance is not an indication of future performance because - a) they will no longer be using resources to issue 45 day letters and b) examiners will get better over time. Both arguments true by the way.
4 - So is there a remote chance of actually winning the lawsuit? Well, my thought is - does it really matter? File the lawsuit in a couple months, 3-6 months to get a verdict (optimistic timeframe). So you get an outcome sometime in late 2006. Two outcomes: a) You win. To make it better you need more money, so go to congress get the money, hire more people, train them, process faster. It's now mid 2007. b) You lose. But at least now the issues at the BPC are brought to light. Some improvements in 2007.
5 - To all those who think lack of FIFO is unfair - I agree (hey my PD is Nov/2001) but I can also give you reasons why it shouldn't be FIFO.
6 - To all those who say that at the current pace they will not finish before 2007 - prove it. I don't mean to be a jerk about this but honestly, someone get me figures that prove that BPCs will actually not finish by the end of 2007. We don't have them. I wish I did but we don't.
7 - Filing a lawsuit can't hurt.

BTW, I look forward to constructive and civilized criticism of my comments above. I have seen in the past few days as we always get on this thread every few months some "smart" people that think that arguing is about using foul language and insulting others, to them I say this: why are you even here? You clearly are adding no value to the forum and you clearly know more than any of us so why waste your time with us ignorant people.

Good luck to everyone and I hope you get your LC soon.
Click to expand...


First of all let me say that the Tracker is the best thing that exists as a barometer to the secrete agency, NO NO not the NSA it’s the BEC.

But lets be honest its not a fact sheet, even if the data in there is factual, we cannot go and produce this as fact while trying to make our case.

Again let me stress, Tracker is the only source of useful information in this Stone Age operations of BEC.

On to next point, I have entire sympathy with folks who have PD behind 06/2002 and are still waiting for their LCA to be cleared. *It is not fair*
But when you bring up FIFO you give BEC an opportunity to justify their nonsense. They can claim that some cases are better prepared, some cases made it to regional so they have cleared SWA’s. Some cases had no RFE’s, etc. they can list 100 reasons like these.
Let me stress again, these reasons are not a valid justification for them not using FIFO.
But when they can give an answer they don’t look that bad.

The thing they cannot answer is why have PBEC processed x cases while DBEC has processed 10x.
The difference is so huge that they have no justifiable answer.

The only thing we need to do is get this number x.
Now tell me is getting value of x difficult? It has to be available to the genius running BEC show? When we talk to our congressmen or anyone who can ring BEC centers with questions, why don’t we shoot them with, how many cases have you processed?

It’s just that simple.
 
Call from Senator's Office

After repeated attempts to contact someone in a prominent Senator's office, I got 2 callbacks today from them.

First was from someone who was responding to my detailed voicemail and he took notes about what I had to say, confirmed info with me and then told me he would have someone from their office call me back who "Specifically deals with DOL issues".

Low and behold, I get a call from that special someone in the next 20 minutes, this lady knows a lot about what is going on and I did not have to explain a lot as she knew about the BEC's, 45 day letter, 7th year extension etc, etc...

I explained the situation as to how things are so screwed up b/w Philly and Dallas and how Philly is so much behind Dallas and how there seems to be no FIFO, no statistics on approvals or any sort of processing, no updates of any kind, no order (e.g. people from June 2002 got approvals while some from March 2002 are still waiting - from the same STATE), told her about how our lives are ruined, how out employers hate us because of all the paperwork and expenses, how we are all so depressed, even gave her the web address of this site.

So now she told me that she could specifically find out about my case as to where it is in the queue by inquiring with them, I told her I did not want to focus on my case but on the overall timing of what they are processing as of now and how long it will take, why it is taking so long and so forth.

She is going to make some phone calls/send inquiries and get back to me when she finds out more about their ways.

This was a detailed conversation that lasted almost 10 mins and she was very polite, receptive to our concerns and listened intently, asked the right questions and wanted to know more, so hopefully she will write a damning letter to PBEC or can exert some pressure to get them to speed up.............lets hope so.

Just wanted everyone to know.
 
Moderator,

On a lighter note can the backlogged messages in this thread be eliminated ?.

Mr Rajiv Khanna has given his server for our usage, we should be grateful to him and use this server space intelligently and not fill it up and slow down the server..one way to do this is, while replying to a long message please don’t include the message in your reply.

Thx
 
bostonqa said:
First of all let me say that the Tracker is the best thing that exists as a barometer to the secrete agency, NO NO not the NSA it’s the BEC.

But lets be honest its not a fact sheet, even if the data in there is factual, we cannot go and produce this as fact while trying to make our case.

Again let me stress, Tracker is the only source of useful information in this Stone Age operations of BEC.
Click to expand...

Agreed.

bostonqa said:
On to next point, I have entire sympathy with folks who have PD behind 06/2002 and are still waiting for their LCA to be cleared. *It is not fair*
But when you bring up FIFO you give BEC an opportunity to justify their nonsense. They can claim that some cases are better prepared, some cases made it to regional so they have cleared SWA’s. Some cases had no RFE’s, etc. they can list 100 reasons like these.
Let me stress again, these reasons are not a valid justification for them not using FIFO.
But when they can give an answer they don’t look that bad.

The thing they cannot answer is why have PBEC processed x cases while DBEC has processed 10x.
The difference is so huge that they have no justifiable answer.

The only thing we need to do is get this number x.
Now tell me is getting value of x difficult? It has to be available to the genius running BEC show? When we talk to our congressmen or anyone who can ring BEC centers with questions, why don’t we shoot them with, how many cases have you processed?

It’s just that simple.
Click to expand...

Again, you are assuming Dallas has processed 10X than Philadelphia. Nothing wrong with going in with a hypothesis to try to prove it or disprove it.

Here is the issue with the "how many cases have you processed?" question:

1 - Do they have the same number of staff? Did they start with the same number of staff? Is the attrition rate different? How about certifying officers? Same number? Different?
2 - Has Philadelphia sent more 45-day letters than Dallas? So at the end they will end in the same place?
3 - What is the mix of cases? RIR vs. non-RIR? What if Philly has more non-RIR cases than Dallas? Who has older cases? Does this validate the different processing strategies of each BPC?
4 - Were state procedures for states being handled in Philly more complex than those being processed by Dallas?
5 - The OIG has in multiple occassions criticized the Labor Certification process for its lack of consistency and significant fraud and stating in multiple occassions that it is more important for DOL to process right than to process fast.

For the record, I am not endorsing the effectiveness of the DOL. I work in an industry that handles more paper than the entire BPC backlog in just weeks (As in less than month). I therefore would like to believe that I understand what the pitfalls may be. I also would like to believe that I know there is a better way. Another thing I can say is - it is harder to fix it than to do it right from the beginning. Clearly we have missed out on that. I also know that implementing changes take time.
 
Next!

JustWatching

It was a very good analysis. As you have mentioned that every point has a counter point, it would always be very difficult for us to win comprehensively and make an effect on DOL / PBEC processing times.

So, where we go from here! We are facing a stone wall and we ourselves are not capable to move it even an inch. What we do now? The only option is to get someone(s) who is storong anough to dent the wall to help us. The main aim should be to draw attention of the powerful ones.

The whole issue of BECs are back burner. Ulnless we draw attention, it will remain the way. In my view the lawsuite is a good way to draw attention, even if we loose.

Law makers, and media attention to this matter are the 2 most powerful things that can help our case. We already satrted a letter campaign to DOL and senators about a week ago. I would suggest to starta similar campaign to attract attention of premier media like cnn, fox, msnbc, cbs, abc, ny times, washington post, LA times etc.

What we are asking for is fix the unfair practice and injustice. PERM is a very unfair process, and let every lawmaker know this issue.

Guys, do not loose your heart. Be persistant and we will prevail.
 
Just wanted to update my info for tracker purposes.

RIR, EB3 NY - July 27th 2002 PD
45 day letter received - Dec 28 2005
45 day letter replied - Jan 12 2006.

Nothing else since then.
 
va-12-04 said:
JustWatching

It was a very good analysis. As you have mentioned that every point has a counter point, it would always be very difficult for us to win comprehensively and make an effect on DOL / PBEC processing times.

So, where we go from here! We are facing a stone wall and we ourselves are not capable to move it even an inch. What we do now? The only option is to get someone(s) who is storong anough to dent the wall to help us. The main aim should be to draw attention of the powerful ones.

The whole issue of BECs are back burner. Ulnless we draw attention, it will remain the way. In my view the lawsuite is a good way to draw attention, even if we loose.

Law makers, and media attention to this matter are the 2 most powerful things that can help our case. We already satrted a letter campaign to DOL and senators about a week ago. I would suggest to starta similar campaign to attract attention of premier media like cnn, fox, msnbc, cbs, abc, ny times, washington post, LA times etc.

What we are asking for is fix the unfair practice and injustice. PERM is a very unfair process, and let every lawmaker know this issue.

Guys, do not loose your heart. Be persistant and we will prevail.
Click to expand...
\

Regarding Lawsuit

I will sign on to Laws suit 100% if the prime agenda is STOPIING OF PERM or put an Injunction on that process till the Laws suit is decided either way.

Only then we can get more attention and DOL will start running p and own and will even arrange funds to get the mess of out PBEC.

Other than that it will be another law suit worth mentioning and may not have a great impact. Of course it will stir few things in media etc and might push things a little bit. But for Guys from 2004 stopping PERM only will get them thier labor in 2006 ( whcih everybody wants now )
 
I agree with you

Saknia:
I agree with you 200%. I am trying to contact our senator as I write. I will leave no stone unterned within my limits to make 2 points clear

1) PERM is unjust.
2) It is unfair to keep highly educated people like us in the same queue as 245(1) cases.
 
Anybody from New Hampshire??

Is there anybody from New Hampshire who received either the 45 day letter or approval? As of January 2005, some cases upto April 2004 made it to the regional. The remaining (April 2004 to March 2005) are SWA cases. My PD is November 2004.
:confused:
 
Last edited by a moderator:
the Lawsuit, This Thread, and What You Can Do

I'm a US citizen with friends in your situation.


the Lawsuit

Lawsuits are not filed just to receive a judgment. They can be filed to pressure a party or to publicize a situation. Most lawsuits are settled out of court. I think in your case it might be useful. But I've not yet seen anyone articulate clearly the legal basis upon which a lawsuit might be filed.


This Thread

I think it's ok to use this to vent frustrations and opine on various issues. But there should be a clearly visible FAQ section.

I think the tracker spreadsheet should be easily accessible, so that people can easily view it, without having to flip through a bunch of slow webpages. Also, people should just email their updates, instead of posting it in the forum. I'd be happy to help the spreadsheet maintainers set up this system, if they're interested.


What You Can Do

DOL and USCIS are bureaucracies that implement work mandated by lawmakers. Direct pressure on bureaucracies are not too effective. You have to pressure lawmakers. Lawmakers respond to voters and publicity.

You should write letters to lawmakers and editors of local newspapers (for publication). You should band together and hold peaceful rallies to draw attention to your situation. You should spin your situation so that you give reasons for the general American public to care about it.

I think http://www.immigrationvoice.org is a good idea. They're pooling money together to lobby lawmakers.

Sorry if these are obvious points. I see a lot of anger here against PBEC, and I think if people don't channel it the right way, it will be ineffective.

-N.
 
Anyone there with Priority Date of 2001 in MD

Just checking in to see if I am the lonely waiting victim now.
Please respond if you are with me.
My PD is: Oct, 2001
 
just when we couldn't possibly have more problems ... the DOL is supposed to publish details today about the end of labor substitution, and one of the rules is:

"45-Day Validity of Approved Labor Certification Application: Unless I-140 is filed with the certified LC application within the following period, the approved labor certification application will expire and turn invalid"

meaning that if we get certified but the letter gets lost of takes 2 months to print or whatever, the labor would expire. Isn't that wonderful.
 
bsun said:
Just checking in to see if I am the lonely waiting victim now.
Please respond if you are with me.
My PD is: Oct, 2001
Click to expand...

I am with you.
MD
PD Oct 2001
45 day letter replied to in July 2005.
 
all 2001 guys r scaring the shit out of all of us stuck in PBEC..!!

Please post your approvals in bold and underline...we will all rejoice wiht you guys...!!
 
nuculer said:
I'm a US citizen with friends in your situation.


the Lawsuit

Lawsuits are not filed just to receive a judgment. They can be filed to pressure a party or to publicize a situation. Most lawsuits are settled out of court. I think in your case it might be useful. But I've not yet seen anyone articulate clearly the legal basis upon which a lawsuit might be filed.


This Thread

I think it's ok to use this to vent frustrations and opine on various issues. But there should be a clearly visible FAQ section.

I think the tracker spreadsheet should be easily accessible, so that people can easily view it, without having to flip through a bunch of slow webpages. Also, people should just email their updates, instead of posting it in the forum. I'd be happy to help the spreadsheet maintainers set up this system, if they're interested.


What You Can Do

DOL and USCIS are bureaucracies that implement work mandated by lawmakers. Direct pressure on bureaucracies are not too effective. You have to pressure lawmakers. Lawmakers respond to voters and publicity.

You should write letters to lawmakers and editors of local newspapers (for publication). You should band together and hold peaceful rallies to draw attention to your situation. You should spin your situation so that you give reasons for the general American public to care about it.

I think http://www.immigrationvoice.org is a good idea. They're pooling money together to lobby lawmakers.

Sorry if these are obvious points. I see a lot of anger here against PBEC, and I think if people don't channel it the right way, it will be ineffective.

-N.
Click to expand...

I'm totally agreed with you. Why don't we do something instead of waiting and waiting endlessly. If we don't want to be activist at least we can support someone that willing to fight for the same cause. I keep looking at Immigration voice and have to admire their efforts.

I'm not good in lobbying and writting, so what I can do is be a passive supporter (send contribution for them). If we are willing to pay thousands dollars for a lawyer, why can't we send them at least 100 dollar for their effort to bring this holocaust public :). I send my contribution already and going to send them another contribution on my pay day :p

If there is a way to sue PBEC, I'm in but for now, I think I'm looking at what I can do to support the immigration voice, since they are very active right now. Some of them are trying to meet with the law maker in couple of state. Other are gathered people to do campaign which is way better than just waiting for a good news.

This forum is been a great help for us that don't know anything about PBEC situation, but since we know now that we are not alone I think we do need to do something and so far the one that really ACTIVE is immigration voice.

It's been a month we never see any approval from PBEC. I heard from my lawyer that PBEC is in the process of changing their email address and all of their contact information :eek: I guess they are tired answering all the email that we send them requesting status of our case :)



PD: Nov 2002
RD: Oct 2003
 
Request

gc_ky123 said:
Moderator,

On a lighter note can the backlogged messages in this thread be eliminated ?.

Mr Rajiv Khanna has given his server for our usage, we should be grateful to him and use this server space intelligently and not fill it up and slow down the server..one way to do this is, while replying to a long message please don’t include the message in your reply.

Thx
Click to expand...

Can we only discuss the PBEC related issue on this thread? Not any lawsuit or any others discussion please. Please feel free to open up another thread for such discussion. I am sorry I cannot just go by every message and delete them if the issue is not with PBEC? The only thing I can do is wipe out the entire thread, let me know what you think of it?
 
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