Out of status parents for close to 25 yrs, kid sponsors them for permanent residency

Texas Resident said:
Sorry to say but your entire logic is flawed. The truth is that these people commit a crime by illegally entering or overstaying their visas. It also means that they support themselves by illegally working without papers or forged documents. So it is "kind of" ok to commit crime? So where is the borderline. Is it also ok for them to steal to support themselves?
Your entire evolution logic might have made sense few thousand years back but in today's world we live in a society controlled by laws.

Following your logic the Virginia T. shooter is the fittest, Hitler and Stalin would would be the last survival of mankind :rolleyes:...
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There are crimes and then there are crimes. While overstaying a visa and living in the country illegally is a crime, it certainly does not fall under the same category as someone stealing to support oneself.
IMO, illegal immigration law is analogous to the sexual offender law..it bunches offenders all under the same category regardless their situation. Just like someone who overstayed their visa , stayed out of trouble and became successful would nevertheless be deemed an illegal immigrant, a 18 year old who has sexual intercourse with his 17 yr old college sweetheart could be deemed a sexual offender for the rest of his life.
 
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formerf1 said:
Question: Do you have issues with people who have had criminal record (not CMITs), traffic tickets and so on, being naturalized?
They have broken some laws haven't they?
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I would have a problem if they said that people with traffic tickets can't naturalize, but they made an exception to allow those with US citizen children to naturalize.

I would have no issue with banning the naturalization of people who were proven to violate the traffic laws every day for several years (like the illegal immigrants are breaking the law every day they overstay).
 
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True, these people stayed here for 25+ years but their only crime was to overstay their visas and perhaps work illegally. Otherwise they would not be able to adjust their status. I would much prefer this kind of "criminals" as my neighbors than a registered sexual offenders or convicted drug dealers.

Also, on a similar note, US is losing skilled immigrants to the European Union, Australia and Canada. These countries have much move favorable policies towards skilled immigration than US has. I feel US is shooting themselves in the foot by placing emphasis on family based immigration. This emphasis leaves skilled migrants hanging forever in limbo. It's been 11 years since I came to the US and I just applied for citizenship. While I understand there needs to be a certain period of permanent residence before being eligible for citizenship why on Earth spouses of US citizens need to wait 3 years and a skilled migrant needs to wait 5? That does not make any sense to me. Now, the retrogression of priority dates for EB-3 category combined with relatively weak dollar means even less skilled migrants will come here.
 
Jackolantern said:
I would have a problem if they said that people with traffic tickets can't naturalize, but they made an exception to allow those with US citizen children to naturalize.
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Yes! and that is spirit of leniency I was refering to. Also that exception is a prevision of the US LAW isn't it?
 
I am known on these forums as a hardlined advocate of disclosing each and every traffic ticket on their N-400. I have had more than my share of debates with those who interpret the N-400 wording with regards to disclosing traffic tickets under $500 in fine.

The answer to the question you have posed is to me is this, disclose all traffic tickets. If USCIS decides to deny you naturalisation, then live with it. The N-400 applicant made his/her own bed, they need to lie in it.


formerf1 said:
Question: Do you have issues with people who have had criminal record (not CMITs), traffic tickets and so on, being naturalized?
They have broken some laws haven't they?
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formerf1 said:
Yes! and that is spirit of leniency I was refering to. Also that exception is a prevision of the US LAW isn't it?
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Yes, but it's a stupid law which encourages people to break the law in other ways, I hope to it see changed so that nobody who is out of status can adjust to LPR status via their children's sponsorship.

I don't believe in giving lawbreakers a chance based on who their children are. You don't get out of a speeding ticket because of where your children were born while people without children or people with foreign-born children have to pay the full penalty. The same thing should apply to people who overstay; don't treat them differently from other violators because of their children or lack thereof. If they want to ban everybody who got a traffic ticket from naturalizing, fine (as long as they don't do it retroactively). But don't carve out an exception based on their children.
 
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Triple Citizen said:
If USCIS decides to deny you naturalisation, then live with it. The N-400 applicant made his/her own bed, they need to lie in it.
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Easier said than done. Attempted denaturalizations based on minor traffic tickets have been quashed by the courts before, so it follows that a denial based on a minor traffic offense would be quashed by an appeal.
 
Frankly it baffles me to see some immigrants in this country treat other immigrants (those with expired visas, came without being inspected etc...) as criminals.
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The correct word is 'illegal alien'. In this country you are an alien until you are granted an immigrant visa.
 
I am not arguing the practicality of the scenario. I was just stating my personal view when questioned by FormerF1.

I have lived in a country where a non-citizen can be arrested, have his head shaved off and put it jail for 7 days for passing a citizen on a highway and the citizen calls the traffic police and claims the non-citizen was driving erratically :)

Bobsmyth said:
Easier said than done.
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Bobsmyth said:
How's that any different from someone out of status spouse to be sponsored by their spouse for AOS?
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If I could, I wouldn't let them adjust either. I'd make them do CP.

But if we are going to carve out exceptions, there is a more compelling reason to make an exception for the illegal alien spouse to adjust, for the sake of the US citizen spouse, than there is to do the same for illegal alien parents. For somebody 21 years old or older, the spousal relationship is much tighter than the parental relationship (and if it isn't, that's a problem) and extended separation from one's spouse is more damaging than separation from one's parents (and if that isn't true, that's their problem).
 
Jackolantern said:
If I could, I wouldn't let them adjust either. I'd make them do CP.

But if we are going to carve out exceptions, there is a more compelling reason to make an exception for the illegal alien spouse to adjust, for the sake of the US citizen spouse, than there is to do the same for illegal alien parents. For somebody 21 years old or older, the spousal relationship is much tighter than the parental relationship (and if it isn't, that's a problem) and extended separation from one's spouse is more damaging than separation from one's parents (and if that isn't true, that's their problem).
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So you would have no compassion for family unity?
 
I do not think that is a correct deduction. I am all for immigration. I am eternally grateful to not one, but two countries for letting me immigrate to them and then granting me citizenship. I had no rights to either and was a recepient of multiple privileges. Having said that, like Jackolantern I support disallowing out of status parents, spouses from AOSing. I am in fact all for disallowing AOS for anyone on B-1/2 status. Let all of these folks pursue CP.
Those who find shortcuts, or out rightly break immigration laws should not be allowed any slack in my opinion.

Bobsmyth said:
So you would have no compassion for family unity?
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Bobsmyth said:
So you would have no compassion for family unity?
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Not beyond spouse and minor children as far as immigration is concerned. Outside of that core family unit, immigration usually does not bring an overall increase in family unity, because each person who is brought into the US becomes separated from other family members in the original country. In many (perhaps most) cases, immigration destroys family unity more than increasing it, because each person who comes to the US is likely to be leaving behind a greater number of relatives than the relatives they will join in the US.
 
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Texas Resident said:
The correct word is 'illegal alien'. In this country you are an alien until you are granted an immigrant visa.
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The correct word is 'illegal alien'

Yes it is for minutemen wanabees.

In this country you are an alien until you are granted an immigrant visa

Really! that's news to me....I do have an immigrant visa and I happen to have an alien registration card as all

Ok talk to you later...gotta go watch Loo Dobbs!:)
 
Jackolantern said:
If I could, I wouldn't let them adjust either. I'd make them do CP.

But if we are going to carve out exceptions, there is a more compelling reason to make an exception for the illegal alien spouse to adjust, for the sake of the US citizen spouse, than there is to do the same for illegal alien parents. For somebody 21 years old or older, the spousal relationship is much tighter than the parental relationship (and if it isn't, that's a problem) and extended separation from one's spouse is more damaging than separation from one's parents (and if that isn't true, that's their problem).
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Have you filed tax returns lately? yes I am sure, and you might even have received money back fronm the IRS...

Now imagine yourself living in a country where the government allows you to come in and work without permission. The government of the country turns a blind eye while you work for more than 20 years and PAY TAXES regularly without the benefit of receiving any returns. You grown accostumed to the country , your child is American and hardly knows anything about your country of origin, culture or language because he spends most of the time with his American friends and babysitter while you are struggling 2 to 3 jobs to make ends meet. You always wanted to take him to your country of origin to meet his brothers, sisters, aunts and uncles but the reality is you cannot take that risk because you will be stocked there and will not be able to return to the US. You would not be able to find a decent job back home if you stayed because even though you earned a graduate degree, you were doing shitty jobs in the US and could aquire no prcatical experience. Now your only hope is your son, who while growing up has witnessed his mother cry in the dark countless times and kept promising her that as soon as he reaches the age, he will petition the government of his country to let you and your wife finally live in dignity.

Now, will you be willing to deny this family the right to legalize?
 
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