MasterArcht
Registered Users (C)
The solution is to enforce the law and close the loopholes. Then people will not spend 20 years waiting, knowing that they will never be deported.
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Out of status parents for close to 25 yrs, kid sponsors them for permanent residency
- Thread starter Bobsmyth
- Start date
The solution is to enforce the law and close the loopholes. Then people will not spend 20 years waiting, knowing that they will never be deported.
JohnnyCash
Volunteer Moderator
You (and others on the forum with the same viewpoint) seem to be offended that procedurally a LEGAL exception allows someone to "get away" with breaking the law. My response is that that's not an anomaly, but rather a regular part of how statutes work in this country.
I'm not offended by anyone's opinions nor I believe that a disagrement in opinions should be taken as an offense. I do respect your opinions as well as others' even if it may be different than mine. I merely expressed my own opinions on this topic. As for my suggestion to behave civily then it was not particularly referred towards you; rather other ones too who have used some kind of harsh words to express their point. That's why I request everyone to have a debate on this matter civily especially when I know how dirty it could get given what I've seen in the past on here and other forums. And I'm sure you must be living here since you are 5 years old but I'm born here. The only difference is-English is not my first language being a bilingual but that doesn't stop me expressing my views nor it should stop anyone. I did very well understand what you meant by harda$$. And in order to understand the difference, English shouldn't be my first language nor I should be born or lived my whole life here.
And I do understand that "legal exception" is not breaking the law. That's why I said more than once that it's our govt. who is responsible for all this mess and sentiments. First they have been failed to protect our boarders and then our immigration laws inside the country. Over the top, Congress has allowed so much exceptions/waivers for most people to get away with their acts of breaking our immigration laws. In my opinion, Congress should have been just, equitable and fair in making laws than making an exception for one category of people but not for other ones when both are the violators and law breakers one way or another. In my opinion a person who enters here illegally should also be allowed to adjust his/her status in the US like an overstayed-person if s/he has a US citizen as an immediate relative.
My problem is with the govt. for not treating people equally and making all kinds of exceptions. For example, Congress made a law for granting a conditional green card for a reason to those who are married less than two years at the time of approval of their green card application, but then on the other hand they allow removal of condition based on exception to anyone regardless of how long one is/was married. And if I'm sure you know well that those waivers/exceptions are so easy to obtain because anyone can get a divorce sooner or later in order to remove the temporary condition from their green card..either before being placed on a removal proceeding and termination of their status or afterwards. I mean why to grant someone a conditional status at first place when you are going to grant them a full status anyway sooner or later despite of marriage to be less than 2 years or being divorced? Isn't it this law was made to see if marriage is legitimate or not for immigration purpose by the duration of marriage but then how a marriage proves a bonafide/legitimate if people get divorced soon or don't stay in their marriage long enough to meet the interpreation of this law? It just doesn't make any sense at least to ME.
When this law was made, it was said that aliens get marry with US citizens just to obtain legal status and once they get the legal status then they divorce US citizen and get married with someone their own country. Thus, to curtail marriage fraud, Congress made this law (about granting a conditional status if marriage is less than 2 years at the time granting status) based on the duration of the marriage, but then on the other hand anyone can get a full residency if s/he could produce a divorce decree...even right after obtaining the temporary/conditional green card. Does it make any sense? Not to me.
Further, one can lie/misrepresent/conceal anything and doesn't need to be worried about about it at all if s/he has parents or spouse who is a US citizen or LPR. But you will be barred for LIFETIME if you have only US born children but not parents and spouse. Talking about "family unity" then don't you think people should also be forgiven if they have US born children or children with LPR? I mean how strange it's that govt allows you to get a legal status in this country without standing in the line (bypassing many years in the line) and despite of having violated many immigration laws if one has an immediate relative (children included like it's in the case reported on this threadl) who is a US citizen but you cannot be forgiven based on the same children if you have ever lied/mispresented to US govt. and you will also be barred for a lifetime!!! So much for the "Family Unity", I guess. Don't you find this strange??
Similarly, Congress made VAWA law a few years back which is well known for being widely misused. Many organizations raised their voice against this law many times, many articles have been written on this on newspapers, blogs, net, magzines. Many documentaries were made but nothing happened. Even USCIS states and acknowledges that 97% of VAWA cases are fraud but nobody has done anything to stop it. Any alien who fails to obtain a green card thru his/her US citizen-spouse, s/he 99% of the times files a VAWA case because this is the only hope for them to obtain a legal status. If they cannot prove physical abuse then they file this application based on emotional or mental abuse.
While practicing immigration laws, dealing with VAWA cases was my speciality. I've NEVER heard of any VAWA case to have denied so far on lack of evidence. Never. They all get approved, sooner or later. Those I heard of being denied, were denied on technical matters and not on the merit. So if one cannot obtain a LPR thru his/her US citizen-spouse then all s/he would need to do is-shout abused...That's all and s/he will be handed out a green card on a silver plate. I've seen cases wherein not even one evidence of abuse was submitted with the application, yet they were all got approved. Some of those applicants were guys who were 3 times bigger and stronger than their so-called "abusing" wives. Read again, not even one single evidence of being abused was submitted in those applications except an affidavit from applicants as to what happened.
Yes, I acknowledge that there are people who do get used and abused by their US citizen spouse, and I'm not saying that VAWA should be repelled altogether; instead all I'm saying is that USCIS should carefully investigate each of these claims and should give at least an opportunity to US citizen spouse to say his/her version of the story than blindly trusting alien-spouse on the allegations of abuses and granting a green card to alien-spouses on a silver plate. As per immigration laws, a VAWA application is very confidental petition. USCIS is prohibited to disclose anything about it with anyone except with law enforcement agencies and that would only with a court order. It's the Congress who didn't add strict provision in there when they made this law.
As for 20 millions illegal people then I think govt. should legalize them because these people are not going anywhere nor all of them could be deported unless local law enforcement agencies are given an authority to check everyone's immigration status and deport those right away who are illegal in the country without any due process like how they do in Germany and some other places but then that would NEVER happen here. And if govt. would legalize all these illegal people then it would set up a wrong example that govt. rewarded to law-breakers while law abiding people are waiting in line to come here for years. Last time when amnesty was granted then the idea/rational was-to curtail illegal immigration but that doesn't happen; instead it led to more illegal coming into the country. Thus, we will be dealing with more illegal in the near future..perhaps more than 40 millions after 20 years later.
Lack of enforcement of immigration laws, lack of tougher and rigid penalty for violating immigration laws, all kind of frauds (welfare, consumer and others) and too much kindness of our country are reasons for people to have flooded here, along with opportunity. In Japan, if you overstay even for a day, then will bar you for lifetime at the time of exit. Many countries penalize you hefty monetary fine. Some will deport you right away without even a shoe if you are found to be illegal. Too much freeways come with a price, I guess.
There is no right and wrong here if you think hard on this topic. All I know is- when someone commits a crime then nobody (court, soceity and anyone else) thinks about how his/her family would survive if s/he is sent to a jail, or about "family unity" or anything else; instead they all strongly want to see the law-breaker to be in a jail for his crime. I maybe wrong, but I think a law-breaker is still a law-breaker...no matter how we put the scenario to justify a crime of a few but not others. This subject has been debated to its eternity on here in the past (many years ago) as well as on many other forums but there was never a winner or as to who is right and who is wrong, and both sides presented good argumentns Very touchy subject.
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The solution is to enforce the law ..
Law enforcement costs money..and raising taxes is never a popular option.
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Obama announced last week that he is committed to passing comprehensive immigration that would allow illegals to become legal...at a cost. I wonder how many illegals would spend (or have) the thousands in penalty fee to become legal if such legislation would pass.As for 20 millions illegal people then I think govt. should legalize them
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JohnnyCash
Volunteer Moderator
I understand and acknowledge that on one side I say that laws should be enforced and law-breakers should not be rewarded for toying with our immigration laws but then on the other hand I talk about legalizing all these 20M illegal people. I know I seem to be contradictory in my statements but I actually lean more towards practical approach to tackle this issue than handling it based on what is wrong and what is right. I know that a right thing to do could be-to penalize all these law breakers, and send them back to their home countries and make them to do consular processing depending on all kinds of bars applicable to them to re-enter into the country. But as a practical approach, it's just not possible to find, detain and deport all these 20M illegal people unless local enforcement agencies are given a blank authority to check anyone's immigration status and deport anyone right away who is illegal in the country without any due process. And you know that US Constitution does allow a due process to everyone who is in the country, legal or illegal.
America is already broke. We are in a recession. It costs tons of money, efforts and resources to locate, detain and deport that many people. These people are doing all kind of jobs that you and I enjoy having benefit from, such as working in a agriculture field, hotel industry, cleaning, laborer jobs, etc...America will not only lose its revenue but also labor empowerness. Families would be separated because most of these people have children and family who are either US citizen or living here for ages. US will never separate families in that large scale especially when United States is known for compassion, humantarian and family unity. It's so easy to say on theory about rounding up these 20M illegal people, but it's so hard in practice.
We are not like other countries whose budget is not that much. America will greatly be hurt financially if all these 20M were to send home. Besides, these people are not going anywhere else no matter how harsh laws will be passed. In 1996, they made a law (sec 245) to curtail illegal immigration which states that if you don't file any kind of immigration petition by April 30, 1997 then you will not be able to adjust your status in the US. People rushed to marry anyone by paying money to adjust their status. Family courts got jammed in every city in the United States. Immigration lawyers got busy in counting money in their both hands. People just wanted to beat the deadline. Though that law was extended a few more times, but panic was everywhere. Yet still no one left. They didn't care if they get deported or not. They had to care about how they could be able to feed their family then than thinking of being deported in the future. So nobody is going to leave, trust me.
Thereby, as a practical approach, it's okay in my opinion to give them an opportunity to a path to a US citizenship. They have already paid and still paying a big price for violating our immigration laws. How? First, they have been separated from their family for years (in some cases 20-30 years) which I know for sure thru my personal knowledge of many people for years. They have not been able to visit and see their loved ones for so long. Many of their loved-ones in back home already died one-by-one while waiting to see them one day but these law breakers couldn't even get the chance to pay their last homage to their family members who died back in home.
I personally know two wonderful ladies who are so honest that I've never met anyone like them. Even if they see tons of money on the street, they don't even touch it. They never say anything negative about anyone and always work hard, help others and pay taxes. Good church going people. Their only crime is that they have overstayed just to take care of their loved ones financially in back home. They are here for 24 years. Both of their parents died in back home one-by-one in waitng for them to come in their home country and these two women couldn't even go there even when their parents died because they know they won't be able to come back if they go back which means they won't be able to financially take care of their other family members who have been dependent on them.They cried and cried as they were so close to their family being family-oriented people. I was the eye-witnessed to their tragedy. This is a story of most of law breakers, believe me. Don't you think this penalty alone is more than enough for visa breakers even though they are the ones who chose to break our laws at first place? If you believe in family then you can understand how difficult it is to live without seeing your family for that many years. They also have had dreams to live with their whole family one day once everything worked out for them status wise. Their parents and family members died one-by-one in hoping that one day they will meet and see each other, but that day never came and will not come now because not many of their loved ones are alive now. They came into the country when they were 24 yrs old and now they are 48 yrs old. I know all this by my own family experience...Saw it, experienced it and gone thru it.
Secondly, most of these illegal people have been living in this country in a constant fear of being detained and be deported. They have made a big sacrifices just to get here. So they just don't want their sacrifice to go waste. This constant fear itself is a penalty and a mental torture especially when it has been that long. Could you imagine how hard is to live a life with a constant fear? You will know it only when you have to live with it. I know some may say that they had/have choice to go back to release themselves from all these hardship and nobody was/is holding them, but most people don't have a choice to go back just like that particulary after making so many sacrifices to get here. My family were one of them. So I know how it's a practical way than saying on word.
Thirdly, many of these illegal people have been working odd jobs all these years because of their illegal status; otherwise they might have found a better job if they were to be legal. Not to speak also about abuses by their employers. I've seen it at first hand thru my family and parents who went thru this abuses for years.
So I think these people have already paid a big price for violating our laws, while on the other hand the people who are waiting outside the US in line to come here haven't been separated from their loved ones...let alone for years...in most cases, they have not been living in a constant fear of being detained and deported nor they have made any or big sacrifice yet to get to the US, and they have not been abused by their employer to experience life without a choice...And they have not been compelled to do odd jobs just to survive in a foreign land. Besides, I'm sure US govt. will make these illegal people to pay some kind of monetary penalty for violating our laws before they will be allowed to adjust their status here.
By the way, most of those people who are waiting outside the US in line to come here thru a legal way would jump to break our laws in a heartbeat to come here if they get a chance to do it. But since they don't get any chance to do it because of two oceans protecting our shores then they have no other choice than just wait for their turn; otherwise nobody wants to wait. If people could come here right away, nobody would sneak into the country. Similarly, if people could adjust their status right away and without any problem then nobody would choose to overstay.
In my opinion, legalizing these 20M illegal people would be a win-win situation for everyone in every way one would like to think of.
America is already broke. We are in a recession. It costs tons of money, efforts and resources to locate, detain and deport that many people. These people are doing all kind of jobs that you and I enjoy having benefit from, such as working in a agriculture field, hotel industry, cleaning, laborer jobs, etc...America will not only lose its revenue but also labor empowerness. Families would be separated because most of these people have children and family who are either US citizen or living here for ages. US will never separate families in that large scale especially when United States is known for compassion, humantarian and family unity. It's so easy to say on theory about rounding up these 20M illegal people, but it's so hard in practice.
We are not like other countries whose budget is not that much. America will greatly be hurt financially if all these 20M were to send home. Besides, these people are not going anywhere else no matter how harsh laws will be passed. In 1996, they made a law (sec 245) to curtail illegal immigration which states that if you don't file any kind of immigration petition by April 30, 1997 then you will not be able to adjust your status in the US. People rushed to marry anyone by paying money to adjust their status. Family courts got jammed in every city in the United States. Immigration lawyers got busy in counting money in their both hands. People just wanted to beat the deadline. Though that law was extended a few more times, but panic was everywhere. Yet still no one left. They didn't care if they get deported or not. They had to care about how they could be able to feed their family then than thinking of being deported in the future. So nobody is going to leave, trust me.
Thereby, as a practical approach, it's okay in my opinion to give them an opportunity to a path to a US citizenship. They have already paid and still paying a big price for violating our immigration laws. How? First, they have been separated from their family for years (in some cases 20-30 years) which I know for sure thru my personal knowledge of many people for years. They have not been able to visit and see their loved ones for so long. Many of their loved-ones in back home already died one-by-one while waiting to see them one day but these law breakers couldn't even get the chance to pay their last homage to their family members who died back in home.
I personally know two wonderful ladies who are so honest that I've never met anyone like them. Even if they see tons of money on the street, they don't even touch it. They never say anything negative about anyone and always work hard, help others and pay taxes. Good church going people. Their only crime is that they have overstayed just to take care of their loved ones financially in back home. They are here for 24 years. Both of their parents died in back home one-by-one in waitng for them to come in their home country and these two women couldn't even go there even when their parents died because they know they won't be able to come back if they go back which means they won't be able to financially take care of their other family members who have been dependent on them.They cried and cried as they were so close to their family being family-oriented people. I was the eye-witnessed to their tragedy. This is a story of most of law breakers, believe me. Don't you think this penalty alone is more than enough for visa breakers even though they are the ones who chose to break our laws at first place? If you believe in family then you can understand how difficult it is to live without seeing your family for that many years. They also have had dreams to live with their whole family one day once everything worked out for them status wise. Their parents and family members died one-by-one in hoping that one day they will meet and see each other, but that day never came and will not come now because not many of their loved ones are alive now. They came into the country when they were 24 yrs old and now they are 48 yrs old. I know all this by my own family experience...Saw it, experienced it and gone thru it.
Secondly, most of these illegal people have been living in this country in a constant fear of being detained and be deported. They have made a big sacrifices just to get here. So they just don't want their sacrifice to go waste. This constant fear itself is a penalty and a mental torture especially when it has been that long. Could you imagine how hard is to live a life with a constant fear? You will know it only when you have to live with it. I know some may say that they had/have choice to go back to release themselves from all these hardship and nobody was/is holding them, but most people don't have a choice to go back just like that particulary after making so many sacrifices to get here. My family were one of them. So I know how it's a practical way than saying on word.
Thirdly, many of these illegal people have been working odd jobs all these years because of their illegal status; otherwise they might have found a better job if they were to be legal. Not to speak also about abuses by their employers. I've seen it at first hand thru my family and parents who went thru this abuses for years.
So I think these people have already paid a big price for violating our laws, while on the other hand the people who are waiting outside the US in line to come here haven't been separated from their loved ones...let alone for years...in most cases, they have not been living in a constant fear of being detained and deported nor they have made any or big sacrifice yet to get to the US, and they have not been abused by their employer to experience life without a choice...And they have not been compelled to do odd jobs just to survive in a foreign land. Besides, I'm sure US govt. will make these illegal people to pay some kind of monetary penalty for violating our laws before they will be allowed to adjust their status here.
By the way, most of those people who are waiting outside the US in line to come here thru a legal way would jump to break our laws in a heartbeat to come here if they get a chance to do it. But since they don't get any chance to do it because of two oceans protecting our shores then they have no other choice than just wait for their turn; otherwise nobody wants to wait. If people could come here right away, nobody would sneak into the country. Similarly, if people could adjust their status right away and without any problem then nobody would choose to overstay.
In my opinion, legalizing these 20M illegal people would be a win-win situation for everyone in every way one would like to think of.