During my oath ceremony the IO also mentioned that if anyone has issue with "so help me God" then feel free to not say it. Forcing to say "so help me God" is a violation of our constitution (first ammendment), the same constitution you all naturalized US Citizens swore to protect.
modified oath without "so help me God"
- Thread starter cmv
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Triple Citizen
Registered Users (C)
As stated by the subject of this thread, this is about oath modification - not exclusion.
Also, what if there is no god? Does that invalidate your Oath?
OK, I think we've beaten this dead horse enough - but for those who haven't taken the Oaht yet, don't let anyone hear you say '...So Help me Elvis'
As stated by the subject of this thread, this is about oath modification - not exclusion.
Also, what if there is no god? Does that invalidate your Oath?
OK, I think we've beaten this dead horse enough - but for those who haven't taken the Oaht yet, don't let anyone hear you say '...So Help me Elvis'
Traditionally , By definition of oath, oath muist invoke God. It is said that once someone refused to take oath before testifying in a cirminal
court and his reason is that he is an atheist so that he can not take oath at all.
A 'traditional' (simplified) explanation of an Oath for the masses (who incidently do believe in a god).
One takes an Oath on something they believe to be sacred (=god for the masses). If they are forced to take an Oath on something they don't consider sacred, then it isn't much of an Oath.
Consider the case of the Muslim Congressman who wanted to take the oath of office on the Koran. Tradition said it should be the Bible. I think the Congressman was correct - even though 'tradition' indicated otherwise.
Actually it doies make sense. If someone really believes in God and he truthfully believe he will be punished by
God's throwing him into the lake of fire and stay in the fire lake foreve if he lies under oath, he will not tell any lie.
The reason is simple: He will not trade a place in heaven for citizenship of any country in this world. So his oath mean something.
I totally agree about this for someone who does believe in god.
So what do we do about those people who don't believe in god?
And what about those who are hedging their bets (i.e. don't really believe in god, but will say an occasional prayer here and there just in case they're wrong about it)
I totally agree about this for someone who does believe in god.
So what do we do about those people who don't believe in god?
And what about those who are hedging their bets (i.e. don't really believe in god, but will say an occasional prayer here and there just in case they're wrong about it)
OK, we're going off-topic here, but we're going back to the core of the question. My whole point in wanting to leave God out is that I want to be speaking 100% truthfully when I say that Oath. And I feel that if I had to mention God, I'd be lying, since I don't believe in God.
It would be a lot more convenient to not do anything and mumble through it with fingers crossed, but that would be spoiling the seriousness of the moment.
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NJOY_SCUBA
Registered Users (C)
Wouldn't it be ironic if somebody is asked about Freedom of religion in civics test and has then problems at ceremony because they atheists and choose not to say "so help me God" in oath?
The truth is founding fathers were very clear on what freedom of religion. I wouldn't go to wing nuts or christian organization to seek clarification on this inalienable right.
USCIS cannot violate US constitution. period.
Anyway back to thread - Here is memo from USCIS on this : http://www.uscis.gov/ilink/docView/...1249/0-0-0-32520/0-0-0-32526.html#0-0-0-20401
If the link doesn't work - search on "Sec. 337.1 Oath of allegiance".
The truth is founding fathers were very clear on what freedom of religion. I wouldn't go to wing nuts or christian organization to seek clarification on this inalienable right.
USCIS cannot violate US constitution. period.
Anyway back to thread - Here is memo from USCIS on this : http://www.uscis.gov/ilink/docView/...1249/0-0-0-32520/0-0-0-32526.html#0-0-0-20401
If the link doesn't work - search on "Sec. 337.1 Oath of allegiance".
I agree that the discussion is veering off topic, but let me reiterate that it is easily possible to have the oath modified. Here is a quote from the Adjudicator's Field Manual:
- The applicant may verbally state that he/she wishes to omit the phrase “on oath” and instead use “and solemnly affirm.”
- The applicant may verbally state that he/she wishes to omit the phrase “so help me God.”
This also covers the case when someone is uncomfortable with using the word "oath". So this seems pretty straightforward to me.
Are you claiming that the Founding Fathers were an ignorant group, or are you claiming that churches are lying to their members (or both
Thanks natur08.
We just have some people here who think that such oath modifications shouldn't be allowed as they are against 'tradition'. (just as I'm sure there were people who claimed that it was tradition that women not be able to vote and were against changing that, or it was tradition to own slaves and that slavery shouldn't be abolished - many people died to try to 'protect' this particular tradition). And before everyone gets all wound up over this, I'm not suggesting that people supporting the god phrase on this board support slavery or disenfranchising women - just that a blind adherence to what is considered tradition isn't always the right thing.
I think this thread has careened way off course and into oncoming traffic so I'll stop any additional posts. I think OP got his answer a long time ago.
for those who haven't taken the Oaht yet, don't let anyone hear you say '...So Help me Elvis'
Elvis is King...not God!