J1 waiver denied

[davr]

I came to the US with a J1 reseach visa. I had some funding from my home country (11 months out of 3 years) and that is why I am subject to the HRR. I got married to an american citizen 1 year ago and applied for a waiver for HRR based on hardship to an US citizen. My request was denied, because acording to them I failed to prove hardship on my wife if I leave and she stays. They give us the option of appealing before the Administrative Appeals Unit (AAU) in 30 days and although I am going to, I dont think there is any hope in this since there is not enough time to and as I understand tis not the instance to refile a new case, so basically we appeal based in the same facts. My questions are two:
1) Does anybody have experience with this process and have any idea of our chances?
2) Could I change to a J1 clinical and start residence next July even tough I had this waiver denied
Thanks

 

[mmed]

I came to the US with a J1 reseach visa. I had some funding from my home country (11 months out of 3 years) and that is why I am subject to the HRR. I got married to an american citizen 1 year ago and applied for a waiver for HRR based on hardship to an US citizen. My request was denied, because acording to them I failed to prove hardship on my wife if I leave and she stays. They give us the option of appealing before the Administrative Appeals Unit (AAU) in 30 days and although I am going to, I dont think there is any hope in this since there is not enough time to and as I understand tis not the instance to refile a new case, so basically we appeal based in the same facts. My questions are two:
1) Does anybody have experience with this process and have any idea of our chances?
2) Could I change to a J1 clinical and start residence next July even tough I had this waiver denied
Thanks

Sorry to hear that, but many cases of hardship, to the best of my knowledge, get denied because you need a real hardship which usually not the case in almost all applications. You have other options e.g
1- Waiver based on no objection and I think this is an easy short cut if your country is willing to give you NOS after you return back the stipened with the interest, insurance ...etc. You just need the favorable recommendation from the DOS to proceed further.
2- You can get J clinical if you return back to your country for one year bar (time interval between 2 J visas) supposed you were in status all the time in US without illegal stay.

A friend of mine stayed almost one year out of status waiting for the hardship waiver after which gets denied and he returned back for the 2 yrs HRR. (his wife and kids are americans)

The best way, which I think you do not want to hear, is to return back and stay the required time.

 

[davr]

Thank you very much for your input. I am trying to get that letter now but first time I tried, they (my government) didn't agree with the letter and that's why I chose the hard way (hardship). I haven't been out of status yet but I will be after July 1st if I apply to the appeal process which I probably will to win some time. Are you sure of the one year gap?
Thank you again

 

[mmed]

Thank you very much for your input. I am trying to get that letter now but first time I tried, they (my government) didn't agree with the letter and that's why I chose the hard way (hardship). I haven't been out of status yet but I will be after July 1st if I apply to the appeal process which I probably will to win some time. Are you sure of the one year gap?
Thank you again

I am sure that the one year and 2 year bar is applicable to certain Js not the others. But you can search in Google under for example (J, visa, year, bar) something like that to know your category and if this applicable to the medical J or not in some detail. If you get the favorable recommendation from the no objection way, you can adjust your status for green card and start residency with EAD if you have current priority date. Or you can start with H if you passed step3 USMLE and the program agree to sponsor you H. Good luck.

 

[davr]

In my case I don't think that there is any restriction to make the change from J1 research to J1 Clinical in terms of time bar between them. What really is an issue is my application to a J1 clinical (with statement of need form my government included) having had applied to a waiver which was denied and having an american citizen spouse. I know for a fact that I will have to do the chage of category in the consulate in my home country and what worries me is what the official is going to say when he/she reads my application for J1 and realizes that I have or at least had in the past the intention of becoiming an immigrant. Do you think that they can deny the visa even though I have my new DS-2019 and a job next July 1st?
Thanks again....

 

[hadron]

Who advised you to seek the hardship waiver ? The only time that seems to work is if US citizen kids with a major medical condition are involved. Just having to go back is not a hardship in their book.

Switching from a research-J1 to a GME-J1 requires to my understanding support from the ECFMG and approval of DOS. You essentially have to make a case to them that by doing a residency you are still promoting the purpose of the original exchange program that brought you here (e.g. if you do immunology research and switch to an internal medicine residency, you can argue that you will still be able to forward the science of immunology yadayada).

 

[hadron]

I know for a fact that I will have to do the chage of category in the consulate in my home country

What does your I94 form state ? If yours says D/S, you don't have to go back to your home country. All you need is the new DS2019.

and what worries me is what the official is going to say when he/she reads my application for J1 and realizes that I have or at least had in the past the intention of becoiming an immigrant. Do you think that they can deny the visa even though I have my new DS-2019 and a job next July 1st?

Yes, they can deny your J1 based on marriage to a US citizen. Marriage to a USC is considered 'immigration intent' and as such incompatible with entering the US on a J1. After I got married, I never left the country until I could change status to a H1b.

 

[davr]

My I94 is for D/S and I don't think that making the case with the ECFMG is going to be a problem.... But I am not sure that I can change from J1 research to J1 clinical without going out and coming back and just having my DS2019 on hand.... What do you know about it?
Thanks

 

[mmed]

Almost the only way to get the J medical is to change your research J while you are in status in the US. Still this is not an easy task, you have to have a strong support letters from your current PI and the residency program director you are going to. Those letters must say clearly that the residency is a continuation of the same work and the same field you are doing now. You have to write another statement with the same meaning. All that just to convince the ECFMG to sponsor you and send the application to the DOS. The DOS is another big obstacle, it is difficult for the regular ones to be granted, how about you being married to American citizen and your previous attempt to get waiver. The third obstacle is your home country, which should issue you statement of need after which the ECFMG will send your full application to the DOS. I am not frustrating you but I do not want you to build dreams and you find every thing collapsed after that, just know that the task is not easy and deal with it accordingly and no one knows what will happen, it is just a discussion.

 

[hadron]

My I94 is for D/S and I don't think that making the case with the ECFMG is going to be a problem.... But I am not sure that I can change from J1 research to J1 clinical without going out and coming back and just having my DS2019 on hand....

Duration/Status (D/S) means you can stay in the country legally for as long as a legitimate sponsoring institution gives you a DS2019 (+30 days).

 

[hadron]

Sometimes, it is the better idea to pack up, go home for 2 years and return with that freshly minted immigrant visa in your passport (and get your citizenship certificate 3.5 years later).

 

[LucyMO]

Sometimes, it is the better idea to pack up, go home for 2 years and return with that freshly minted immigrant visa in your passport (and get your citizenship certificate 3.5 years later).

hadron, did you yourself go away for two years - without your spouse and/or your children, and spend the two years without separation problems? Did you, maybe, have a medical condition that is not treatable in your own country and have to suffer for two miserable years?

if not, I don't think you should tell people it's better for them to go back for two years. Coz it's not.
Sometimes, it's not so much about a freshly minted visa. It's about being together with your family, and sometimes they just can't follow you for a variety of reasons.

 

[mmed]

hadron, did you yourself go away for two years - without your spouse and/or your children, and spend the two years without separation problems? Did you, maybe, have a medical condition that is not treatable in your own country and have to suffer for two miserable years?

if not, I don't think you should tell people it's better for them to go back for two years. Coz it's not.
Sometimes, it's not so much about a freshly minted visa. It's about being together with your family, and sometimes they just can't follow you for a variety of reasons.

I think it is not what hadron, me and you did or not, it is the advice any one can give based on his experience and many stories every where. When all of us came here to the US on J, we know in advance that we have 2 year HRR and every one of us including my self tried to stay here in a legal status. When someone marry a citizen, he know that this family may be separated for 2 years at sometime because of the J. The OP already tried the hardship waiver and unfortunately denied, all of us here in this forum are trying to find another way, like the no objection or change his J research to J medical without this family separation which every one do not like. The point is; what if these options did not work, the only way at least at the present time is the return back with or without the family and sacrifice 2 years to make the rest of our life better. Just opinion.

 

[hadron]

hadron, did you yourself go away for two years - without your spouse and/or your children, and spend the two years without separation problems?

I didn't say separating from your family. When I got married, this was in the understanding that we might or might not have to move to another country (possibly a third country like the UK) for a couple of years before returning to the US. I got my waiver and everything worked out fine, but this was part of the deal with my wife from day one. My sister in law married a J1, from day one it was clear that this is what he signed up for and that they would have to adhere to the conditions of his visa.

I don't know where the OP is from, but unless his home country is ravaged by civil war (which could have gotten him a persecution waiver) or a really dark place where his wife will have to wear a bee-keepers suit and get her hand chopped off for driving a car, there are certainly options to go back. There might be no star-bucks and they don't have rounded door-knobs, but heck give me a break here.

Did you, maybe, have a medical condition that is not treatable in your own country and have to suffer for two miserable years?

If that was the case, there would certainly be grounds for a hardship waiver. The OP didn't mention that. The pure fact that your spouse would have to live abroad for 2 years is not a hardship in their book (and in my either).

As for the 'no objection' waiver: His country funded him to go abroad IN ORDER TO COME BACK and apply his skills for the benefit of their economy and research institutions. So, they do have a very good case to require his return. (Where I come from, the goverment will still give you the no-objection statement because they know that their ex-pats in the US research machine are a very valuable asset, but it is certainly up to individual countries to set their policies).

if not, I don't think you should tell people it's better for them to go back for two years. Coz it's not.

Please read my post, it started with the word 'Sometimes', which would infer that in many OTHER cases going back is NOT the better option.

I just see people struggling through lots of anxiety to get their various changes of status approved and then sit for years on AOS with EAD renewals annd interviews and 6hr trips to the local office etc while they could already be on their way to citizenship if they had gone abroad for the 2 years.

Sometimes, it's not so much about a freshly minted visa. It's about being together with your family, and sometimes they just can't follow you for a variety of reasons.

Yep, and if there is absolutely no way you can take your family to the place you are from, then struggling through the trials and tribulations of J1 sponsor tansfers, COS and AOS might indeed be the better option.

 

[davr]

Thanks everybody for the input and support. As suggested by Hadron, I have considered myself the option of going back for two years if there is no other choice. My wife could not go though, because she is also a physician and has a contract and huge educational loans to pay. Besides, my home country would not be a safe place for Americans nowadays. As Mmed say, we were aware of the obligation from the beginning, but we were just trying although we knew it was going to be hard. However, I am just asking for some counseling and trying to learn and take advantage from the experience of others and looking for options.
The other disadvantage of going back for two years, (besides the painful separation), is the fact that, since in order to practice in the US I have to re-train, if I go back, I will lose two years, and the opportunities that I have now (I matched for General Surgery) will be gone by then.... but it is what it is and we will do what it has to be done.
Thanks

 

[LucyMO]

When all of us came here to the US on J, we know in advance that we have 2 year HRR

not all of us did. I had no idea - I never got to sign my IAP-66, I didn't even have to go to the consulate to get a visa - a huge group of students got their visas without ever going there. I found that out a year after I entered the US with J-1 - when I tried to change status to F-1.
There was no info on the Internet in 1994 about it, and nobody really new what the heck "subject to 212(e)" was.

When I got married, this was in the understanding that we might or might not have to move to another country (possibly a third country like the UK) for a couple of years before returning to the US.

Spending two years in UK would be nice, although, unless you are from UK, you cannot spend your HRR in the third country. I could never take my hubby to my country. A lot of people from countries whose names end with -stan cannot take their American spouses with them either. Which, of course, would mean separation for two years, and that is extremely hard for most people. I knew one (from the forum) who was rich enough to meet her American husband in Europe every month for a week, so two years apart from them was quite easy, of which she boasted quite a bit. However, not everybody is this lucky. So, my advise is - it is better to try all the options first, and then - in case all of them fail - return to your country for two years.

 

[hadron]

not all of us did. I had no idea - I never got to sign my IAP-66, I didn't even have to go to the consulate to get a visa - a huge group of students got their visas without ever going there.

'scratch head'

I'll have to take that at face value, but the only people that used to be able to enter on J1s without having to go through the consulate used to be the canucks and how it is possible to go through the J1 process without seeing your IAP66 (or that stamp in your passport '2 year home rule apply'.

There was no info on the Internet in 1994 about it, and nobody really new what the heck "subject to 212(e)" was.

Even without the web, I have no doubt that the information was available. My brother was in the states on a J1 in the 80s, and somehow he knew what the deal was.

I could never take my hubby to my country. A lot of people from countries whose names end with -stan cannot take their American spouses with them either.

That was the part with 'a dark place'.

I have heard some whining by people from places like Poland or Israel who where so convinced that they couldn't bring their US spouse there which is kind of funny if you think about all the people that go exactly to those places every year for various educational pursuits.

So, my advise is - it is better to try all the options first, and then - in case all of them fail - return to your country for a year.

If you are indeed from one of the 'stans' or a place in either bitter poverty or civil unrest, yes then going back is not an option. But this is an individual decision and no blanket statements will help that individual.

 

[hadron]

My wife could not go though, because she is also a physician and has a contract and huge educational loans to pay.

Re-enroll her in college abroad and get forbearance on the loans. You didn't mention where you are from, but there are plenty of places in the world where US trained physicians can work. Not at US level incomes, but work nevertheless.

Besides, my home country would not be a safe place for Americans nowadays.

Is it a country the State department advises not to travel for US citizens ?

and the opportunities that I have now (I matched for General Surgery) will be gone by then.... but it is what it is and we will do what it has to be done.
Thanks

Well, try to get your J1 sponsorship transfer and don't leave the country for the next 7 years.

 

[LucyMO]

'scratch head'
I'll have to take that at face value, but the only people that used to be able to enter on J1s without having to go through the consulate used to be the canucks and how it is possible to go through the J1 process without seeing your IAP66 (or that stamp in your passport '2 year home rule apply'.

yeap, that was in 1994, and about 150 students from the former Soviet Union never got to see their IAP-66 forms before entering the US, or the inside of the US consulate for that matter. Our passports were collected, taken to the US consulate and we were issued visas without ever knowing the hardships of getting such a visa. Since we were all financed by USIA, we had no problems. A year later I found out about HRR from the students who arrived on the same program a year before us. My passport was never stamped with the subject to 212, only IAP-66, but who paid attention? I thought that I was only going to be in the US for that exchange year, and I never thought that 10 years later I'd still be in the US on a non-immigrant visa, and I'd find my hubby, and would need a waiver if I didn't want to be away from him for two years.

P.S.
Canuck????

1835, cross between Canada and Chinook, the native people in the Columbia River region. In U.S., often derogatory. US slang for Canadians in general and French Canadians in particular.

 

[hadron]

P.S.
Canuck????

1835, cross between Canada and Chinook, the native people in the Columbia River region. In U.S., often derogatory. US slang for Canadians in general and French Canadians in particular.

I don't think you have to get upset on behalf of our friendly neighbours to the north.(I guess political correctness has done a complete job here).

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Canuck

The history and use of the term include:

- The Vancouver Canucks hockey team
- The Canada national rugby union team Canucks
- The Crazy Canucks, a group of Canadian alpine ski racers who dominated the World Cup circuit in the '70s.
- Johnny Canuck, a personification of Canada who appeared in early political cartoons of the 1860s resisting Uncle Sam's bullying. Johnny Canuck was revived in 1942 by Leo Bachle to defend Canada against the Nazis.
- In 1975 in comics by Richard Comely, Captain Canuck is a super-agent for Canadians' security, with Redcoat and Kebec being his sidekicks. (Kebec is claimed to be unrelated to Capitaine Kébec of a French-Canadian comic published two years earlier.) Captain Canuck had enhanced strength and endurance thanks to being bathed in alien rays during a camping trip. The captain was reintroduced in the mid-1990s, and again in 2004.