Indians( Asians) in US office environment.

[assur]

All of a sudden immigration experts became Etiquette Experts. There are some good suggestions here and there but who are we to define which is good or bad. Some body went little further and gave suggestion on how to live.



This is not the place or anyone of us are in position to define how other should live. I bet everyone knows what is he doing.....

It is not a counselling, advicing, advisng, but it is good to let "Everybody" know about the DESI community having been experinced.
To arrive and to work in Corporate America is an honour, you already got it, but to retain it, is the goal. It is good to have guidence, there is nothing to loose. Get it in the form of Good and Bad side, decide yourselves, adopt it whatever you feel better. Dont take it "DEMORALIZING".
A friend is a real friend who tells the unpleasent habits and criticizes where needed.

 

[Kishore_l]

It is not a counselling, advicing, advisng, but it is good to let "Everybody" know about the DESI community having been experinced.
To arrive and to work in Corporate America is an honour, you already got it, but to retain it, is the goal. It is good to have guidence, there is nothing to loose. Get it in the form of Good and Bad side, decide yourselves, adopt it whatever you feel better. Dont take it "DEMORALIZING".
A friend is a real friend who tells the unpleasent habits and criticizes where needed.

I do not agree with you that "Working for America is a Honor". Its just another working place. Its no better than any other good working environment in rest of the world.

I agree pretty much with all good posts and negative posts. My point is, if we can refine ourselves based on the negative post..WE WILL BE SOON HIGHLY INDESPENSABLE (Like UK & ISAREL for US ). Even though we're highly needed here, we're not respected that much just because of few stupid things we do.

Not only medical field, any field we take we lead and dominate pretty much.
NASA - Lead sceintists are Indian's
Tech Industry (Microsoft / CISCO / ORACLE)- Don't have to say
Medical field - Leading Dr's are Indians
Research - Leading Sceintists are Indians (Any sector medical, pharmaceutical, tech)
Share Market - Ofcourse jews (We should hit that industry)
Finance / Insurance - Though we play a significant role, we don't lead.

However, setting forth the above mentioned leads......People like us who is the lower part of the management and who mingle with significant part of this country should behave in such a way that We're respected for our knowledge and hard work. Doesn't matter how good you are, if you are disgusting.........They will treat you like a dirt. As someone has mentioned earlier, when I came to this country returning any thing will be easy and staright forward with not much questions. Currently, if you go for a legitimate return they scrutinize you like anything and check everything as if you are trying to cheat them. I would not blame them, as many of us have abused this previllege.

Take Pride in whatever you do. Be proud to be an Indian.

 

[assur]

I do not agree with you that "Working for America is a Honor". Its just another working place. Its no better than any other good working environment in rest of the world.

I agree pretty much with all good posts and negative posts. My point is, if we can refine ourselves based on the negative post..WE WILL BE SOON HIGHLY INDESPENSABLE (Like UK & ISAREL for US ). Even though we're highly needed here, we're not respected that much just because of few stupid things we do.

Not only medical field, any field we take we lead and dominate pretty much.
NASA - Lead sceintists are Indian's
Tech Industry (Microsoft / CISCO / ORACLE)- Don't have to say
Medical field - Leading Dr's are Indians
Research - Leading Sceintists are Indians (Any sector medical, pharmaceutical, tech)
Share Market - Ofcourse jews (We should hit that industry)
Finance / Insurance - Though we play a significant role, we don't lead.

However, setting forth the above mentioned leads......People like us who is the lower part of the management and who mingle with significant part of this country should behave in such a way that We're respected for our knowledge and hard work. Doesn't matter how good you are, if you are disgusting.........They will treat you like a dirt. As someone has mentioned earlier, when I came to this country returning any thing will be easy and staright forward with not much questions. Currently, if you go for a legitimate return they scrutinize you like anything and check everything as if you are trying to cheat them. I would not blame them, as many of us have abused this previllege.

Take Pride in whatever you do. Be proud to be an Indian.

To work in "Corporate" America is an honor.

The "Environment" to work where billions of people of the world dream about. The achievers are high profile professionals and show their credentials as "Honors". I have no doubt to say, "The Coporate America" is the BEST place to work for a professional.

 

[asdqwe2k2]

...
Not only medical field, any field we take we lead and dominate pretty much.
NASA - Lead sceintists are Indian's
Tech Industry (Microsoft / CISCO / ORACLE)- Don't have to say
Medical field - Leading Dr's are Indians
Research - Leading Sceintists are Indians (Any sector medical, pharmaceutical, tech)
Share Market - Ofcourse jews (We should hit that industry)
Finance / Insurance - Though we play a significant role, we don't lead.

......

How many Indians won noble prize in the respective fields you defined above. Out of 100 years of noble history and 10-15 categories, all you can think of is 2-3 in these 100 years??? Same thing goes with how many medals in international sports field..

I don't want to say that indians do not work hard, but there is nothing "so great" with one billion population to be proud of, accept it......

 

[Kishore_l]

How many Indians won noble prize in the respective fields you defined above. Out of 100 years of noble history and 10-15 categories, all you can think of is 2-3 in these 100 years??? Same thing goes with how many medals in international sports field..

I don't want to say that indians do not work hard, but there is nothing "so great" with one billion population to be proud of, accept it......

Listen, we're just free for last 50 years and our growth is tremendous. I agree with you that, given our population we have not won gold's in Olympics..one of the reason is our political structure. I am not even going to go into that area.......

All we're talking about is....our behaviour in a foreign environment. All I am saying is, lets be proud of whatever we do, be courteous, be considerate, don't degrade yourself and get credit for our own country. Lets grow and Help our nation to grow.

 

[assur]

Listen, we're just free for last 50 years and our growth is tremendous. I agree with you that, given our population we have not won gold's in Olympics..one of the reason is our political structure. I am not even going to go into that area.......

All we're talking about is....our behaviour in a foreign environment. All I am saying is, lets be proud of whatever we do, be courteous, be considerate, don't degrade yourself and get credit for our own country. Lets grow and Help our nation to grow.

Kishore, you lost track here. You are talking about proud of work, credit to country, .... You are "NOTHING", you found this place to work, now you are able to contribute to your country..... Is this not the Honor to work in Corporate America?

 

[grs2003]

Nobel winner!!!!!!

asdqwe2k2:
How many Indians won noble prize in the respective fields you defined above. Out of 100 years of noble history and 10-15 categories, all you can think of is 2-3 in these 100 years??? Same thing goes with how many medals in international sports field..

I don't want to say that indians do not work hard, but there is nothing "so great" with one billion population to be proud of, accept it......

They don't award Nobel prize in 10-15 categories
Nobel prize is an international award given yearly since 1901 for achievements in physics, chemistry, medicine, literature and for peace. In 1968, the Bank of Sweden instituted the Prize in Economic Sciences in Memory of Alfred Nobel, founder of the Nobel Prize.

 

[linux1112000]

I do not think Indian or south Asian should be proud of what contribution they have done so far. It’s patriotic to say but reality is quite different. We are almost in every field but there are very few in leading position. List best 100 in each field and you will be disappointed to find number of Indians or south Asian. There are many Indians in IT field; this does not mean Indians are smart. There are obviously few smart people and because of them Indian are in to IT market. I am disappointed to see very little Indian contribution in any IT technology area even though we are outnumbered.

Remember, non Indian get to know more about India through any Indian they know or they see. If you are smart, intelligent, honest, well behaved, and have good hygiene then they get good impression about India. May be India is free for last 50 years but the nation was there long before US or West.

 

[Kishore_l]

I do not think Indian or south Asian should be proud of what contribution they have done so far. It’s patriotic to say but reality is quite different. We are almost in every field but there are very few in leading position. List best 100 in each field and you will be disappointed to find number of Indians or south Asian. There are many Indians in IT field; this does not mean Indians are smart. There are obviously few smart people and because of them Indian are in to IT market. I am disappointed to see very little Indian contribution in any IT technology area even though we are outnumbered.

Remember, non Indian get to know more about India through any Indian they know or they see. If you are smart, intelligent, honest, well behaved, and have good hygiene then they get good impression about India. May be India is free for last 50 years but the nation was there long before US or West.

Nicely Worded!!. Just behave properly. Thats all.

 

[assur]

Guys include Bolly-Wood, they are doing great job. All we need a movie about the DESI Communities' miseries, cultural differences and adjustment, spices and after-math atmosphere, etc.

 

[waitingnwaiting]

I have to agree with some of the posters above ..

We havent really gotten to the top of any field in a really big way.

Let me give some statistics

Percentage of Indians in the world = 15.6 %
Percentage of indians who won nobel prize < 1 %

Percentage of Jews in the world = 0.2 %
Percentage of Jews who won nobel prize = 27 %

It is also true that we became free in the last 50 years. Maybe we might
come up with more nobel prize winners.

 

[assur]

I have to agree with some of the posters above ..

We havent really gotten to the top of any field in a really big way.

Let me give some statistics

Percentage of Indians in the world = 15.6 %
Percentage of indians who won nobel prize < 1 %

Percentage of Jews in the world = 0.2 %
Percentage of Jews who won nobel prize = 27 %

It is also true that we became free in the last 50 years. Maybe we might
come up with more nobel prize winners.

You are righ.
First work on Nobel Cause and then Nobel Prize - In this community GC is the Nobel Prize.

 

[Sudh]

What is this Nobel Prize?

I agree that getting Nobel prize is great and proud feeling! But that has to do with Indian becoming successful. and What is up with statistics.

Nobel prizes are covered in last 100 years history. Most of them are distributed amoung europeans and americans. It is a prize given for exceptional abilities. With every one's logic more Nobels means more great and Scholar community?
Mahatma Ghandi was not given Nobel prize (because of committee found him as baised leader). So following above logic, he was not a great man.?! There are so many SAI BABA BHAKT, who get peace of mind by just looking at his picture (He was truely a human being) so what if he did not get any prize. He is still modern era God for his followers. On other side if someone creates Non Side Effect Sleeping Pill/ Worryfree Pill/ Fatfree Beer on western side, he may get Nobel. Point is that for western population Nobel is one scale to major success or acknowledge wisdom. That is not going to tell if Indians are more successful.
In America, we are still working at worker class level. Generations before had stuggled a lot. Next so called ABCD generation is running, some of them are going in those fields where western domination is more. Llike in higher management, goverment in wenstern countries, PHD holders in Nano, Micron, Nuero technologies...
But I still feel that Kalpna Chawla had to cross continents before touching the sky. But She did it. (One can cry out a loud that she was an american citizen)
Let me say that INDIANS are in MAKING. Give us some time (long we fought for our freedom. 300 years is not short time, it is same time as history of this nation), I bet you will find some new names in the future.

To get prize. There has to be winner. To win, there has to be game, rules and player with equal lelvels. In real life there nothing called EQUAL level, hard defined rules. In real life rules are always favor someone, someone is always stronger than other.... Indian have just started playing this game. They will read this forum and try to catch on their personal grooming, talking, writing and try to be catch up that level difference then we will talk about prizes. [By then rules must be modified by current winners or they will come up with new name]

Jews is different story. I work with some of them, in stock market you will find many and our company is also owned by them. Again they were in merchant and business before Chriest's birth. Community is closed and supportive to each other. Check any media, finance, diamand, universities founder and owners. Work with them, you will understand , their thinking comes from their family ties and circle. There are different reasons why we think that they are successful.

I have to agree with some of the posters above ..

We havent really gotten to the top of any field in a really big way.

Let me give some statistics

Percentage of Indians in the world = 15.6 %
Percentage of indians who won nobel prize < 1 %

Percentage of Jews in the world = 0.2 %
Percentage of Jews who won nobel prize = 27 %

It is also true that we became free in the last 50 years. Maybe we might
come up with more nobel prize winners.

 

[jish]

Are they ethical?

Not trying to be anti-semitic, jews donot always conduct business in ethical ways. Their ratio of conductuing "business" in ethical/non-ethical ways are very high, though i admit such practices goes for any community.Their fraudulent practice may be camouflaged by media .
Over $3B of US tax payer's income goes for Israel's defence annually.
Do you think lot of westerners or even some far-easterners would prefer a jew or even patel over someone else.
Jews/Patel "so called closed knit communities" will try to cut corners on every aspect of doing business.

 

[bkhote]

Hi Friends... keep it going.

Hi Friends,
I started this forum a few weeks ago and am quite happy with the kind of responce it is
generating. I am sure it will go long way in generating awareness about our social interaction.

gb04:
You mentioned some of the best suggestions.. thank you ( see post #2).

Sudh:
>Learnt from our mistakes and put lots of efforts to lift our ...
My aim is to learn from others mistakes.
Make some kind of a primar for someone new to this country so that our
FOB behaviours wont damage our countries reputation.

gcnation11
>I don't think we are doing anything wrong
With that attaitude, we wont improve. We do certain things back home and its OK in that
context but that might be considered affensive here. We do lot of thing for which many
americans would just ignore.. but for same thing you would receive abuse back home.
Just because they don;t let us know that we are wrong does not mean we r correct.

>and when compared, I can say Desis will be counted among the decent ones.
I do not believe in that. Just stop thinking that your country ( which ever it is) is
best in the world. This attitude is causing problems all over the world.
My country/religion is better than yours...

grs2003
>All of a sudden immigration experts became Etiquette Experts.
You are discouraging suggestion offered by others.
I believe most of us are offering suggestions in a good faith with the aim to
improve our social perceptions.

unitednations:
You offered a different perspective that most of us lack... thanks.
keep writing about your experiences.

If you want to see display of bad social behaviour go to the early shooping on the
thanks giving week-ends. I have seen many desies going back in line to recive free 10-15$ gift card. 5 -6 families would entire in a line where they see their friend.
This is not fair to others who are standing in line since 4 - 5am on the cold November
morning to get that good deal.

I am extracting these suggestions. Any Idea how to publish it. Since some of things
are really degrading ourselfs ( farting , stealing ) I would like to put it in a
place where only desi visits like this forum.

BK..

 

[waitingnwaiting]

one attitude that cripples us at work is -
we have been taught to obey orders, work hard and not raise objections.

I have seen a lot of Indians who are brilliant at their work, but meekly accept decisions handed down to them by americans.

We do not critique or question the validity of an american's decision in a positive and assertive way. If we do question the decision, it is often in an in-appropriate way.

Americans on the other hand, freely discuss and voice their opinions during meetings and other discussions.

But I can say that there are some of us who are very articulate , but very few of us.
I have to admit I am not very articulate myself.

I think a major reason for that is the way we were raised.
In summary , it is not our fault - Just a change in circumstances and environment.

 

[Brij523]

I can't control myself. People got to understand some points

1) Indian people don't advertise like American. You go to any museum here. They will advertise for the museum from 100 miles away. And when you reach there you will find nothing compared to advertisement. And most of the company call themself as world class, world best and blah blah, same, it is an advertisement tactics. One of my friend happen to be in New York. There was an Indian Museum. They had one Lantern, and some earthern pot. And if you see the advertisement - it is written World Best and largest Indian Museum. I can't stop laughing at it.
Indian invented 0. But it is not well advertised. Or for anything it is not well advertised. Take the Scud and Patriot missile technology. No different than astra technology of our Hindu God used era ago. Man we need to advertise ourself. We do bad job in that area. We will come up one day.

2) People in the top here are BIG TIME PROFESSIONAL LIAR. Look around the lying which came to light - Worldcom, Tyco, Enron etc. Remember it was not Indian who was heading the company. So read between line what I want to say. Let me tell you one thing, we all human being are same only color is different, that's all.

3) Let me tell you one thing - for every bad Indian I will show you 2 non indian at any level in the job structure. Please stop thrashing yourself. I just hate to see this posting. I was resisting not to post but couldn't control.

4) Some e-mail etiquette which I learned after coming here
a) Don't type the mail in cap letter. Typing in cap letter means you are shouting at other person.
b) Don't put too many question mark after the statement. That means you are tellling the other guy what the heck you have been doing till now. Why didn't you answer.
c) Similarly putting too many exclamation mark also means something.
I hope we stop thrashing ourself uselessly.

 

[Brij523]

waitingnwaiting

I am very very positive, if you question, whether it is in positive or negative way, you will be laid off in the next round or fired.
The simple mantra everyone follow here is align with higher up. Whether it is American or Indian or anyone. Reason if you don't align with higher up you are odd egg and out of place. Door will be open for you sooner or later.
And I thing aligning is good mantra. Because if you don't align sooner or later you will create chaos and will in limelight. Remember people here are tactical in advertisement.
Remember all the finger are not of same size. Similarly thinking drastically varies. Therefore, alignment is necessary for sucess of corporation.

one attitude that cripples us at work is -
we have been taught to obey orders, work hard and not raise objections.

I have seen a lot of Indians who are brilliant at their work, but meekly accept decisions handed down to them by americans.

We do not critique or question the validity of an american's decision in a positive and assertive way. If we do question the decision, it is often in an in-appropriate way.

Americans on the other hand, freely discuss and voice their opinions during meetings and other discussions.

But I can say that there are some of us who are very articulate , but very few of us.
I have to admit I am not very articulate myself.

I think a major reason for that is the way we were raised.
In summary , it is not our fault - Just a change in circumstances and environment.

 

[assur]

srichalam is showing the way of ESCAPE, dont do it. Thats one of the problems. Always accept the mistake and improve.
When you go to the Doctors, they "STRIP OFF" and examine your hidden parts. You dont do objection because you wanted to be cured/prevented from diseases. Take it in the same way
A male dog is a "dog" a female dog is a "Bitch" that is in the english dictionary. Would you knock it out from dictionary? or giveup its use?

Did anybody tell about sign language, "Bird Finger"?
Did anybody tell about dont criticize over individuals' "Religion/Beliefs"?
Did anybody tell about dont criticize over individuales' country, boundaries, politics, traditions?

Dont take it personal/political...
Some of us converted the topic or talking about "Indian Intelligence", you are discriminating yourselves from others, thats a big mistake, you are drawing a wall among cultures. This bevhaviour in Corporate America is UNACCEPTABLE. Do what you are supposed/assigned to do and dont pose yourselves as "Supper-Natural" , "Intelligent", "Intelectual" nation/creature. It is a very big mistake and that causes a huge problem.

Dont assess yourselves based on other individual's particular/specific achievements. Who you are? what you are doing? what you have achieved? is important. Some one received gold medal is not yours' and dont pretend to be and expect to be praised for..

The Wisdom, intelligence is not the property of any individual, country, nation, creature, but we all geathered based on our individuality and skills.

When we say "DESI" it does not mean "Indian". It means those who are culturally similar and same specifically eastern. A lots of participants are from across the borders are dominating the same values and cultures.

The beauti of US/Amreica is, irrespective to culture, religion, belief, politics, country boundaries, color, race, cast, values, customs, professional skills we all work toeather. And never discriminate based on above cited factors.

I have been supervised by juniors and supervised seniors. It is the demand of assignments. A 25 years old professional have been working in an organisation last three years is always a senior than a consultant just joind in to deliver/render a solution/service. Dont worry, if you have leadership skills and your organisation is not materializing them. It is called Professional Approach.

Please correct me if I am wrong..

 

[Indian_sux]

All are equal under H1b .

Note:U may not agree with me ,that's fine to me.I am not saying any academic theory.I will put up only what I have gone thru.
Meat:It is assumed all in this forum are of status ="gc_Screwed_up_but_may_get_oneday".So let us take my case which is Harassment visa category ( mine is H1 and wife is H4 ).Let us go back to India for a moment.IIM,IIT,XLRI goes to a class of job.Then Bajaj ,Roorkee ,RIT etc goes to another class job.and so on....All these institute have their own class and standard (more or less).They have their own alumni but organization created a environment where no one included in syllabus to teach "not to fart in office in particular way or raising/tilting ones Ass but every one got the message.
Comeback to US:Here u have to come thru some thing under H1b or variation of that class.Now IIM,IIT ,IIFart,IISmell all have to work together and under one class H1b/EAD.Now every body feels uncomfortable those who fart with those who don't fart and vice verca.You just can't make them all equal but H1b visa says all are equal and proudly claims "we are equal opportunity employer" .That means person who fart in whatever style will be treated equally.Hence relax .Let us not complain and let him enjoy in his own way by farting in public.
Most of the Amrican have brain and they will know that all Indians don't fart in Office in same style or with equal zeal .As some one next to him is not.
Whoever started this thread has a noble intention I assume.You are doing good job I will say.Start a blog under Rediff/Sulekha pure Indian site and vent there with full throttle.I will join there and do good publicity in my circle.You started ,we got the message now let us take it to more relevant forum/blog and take it out from immigration portal .Analogy: when one want to sell camery or accord they put flyer's on Indian Grocery store but buy/sell car transaction does not take place there.It is out side of Grocery shop.
Problem:Once u are on H1b and wants to preserve ur GC_process you are screwed up.U have fewer options ,corp to corp ( pimp to pimp contract not directly with client).That's it.Don't disagree with ur manager as you are contractor and will be thrown out of the building and that is called heads_down_developer and liked by manager.After some time you can boast with ur relatives my manager like me most as I am the best talented developer( read slave).I know some Indians working on same client at same job level for last 5-7 years and still claim themselves best of the best.La cream da la creme.they expect us to behave like slave and they get plenty.
Question to All:In this forum we quote what Indians have done etc etc.Some one rightly suggested if some Indian got medal that is not yours and hence don't praise urself ( Sports etc is exception ).How many of you have helped another fellow member in his career struggle in USA ? How many of you have not pulled the leg or tried at least of another Indian? How many of you have respected another programer Indian ? How many of u best of best (DBA ,Java Programer etc) wants to become manager ? Let us talk about this majority H1b class not Khurana or chandra shekhar. Do this introspection please.I myself consider another Indian as my biggest enemy and my body immune system (while blood ) reacts accordingly.You can come up with crap like "All Indians...are not same etc etc" .Believe me after that anti_Indian_vaccine
I am fine since last 1 year.