triple citizen, you can marry an Italian so in 6 months, you can hold the fourth citizenship (EU citizen or Italian citizen). then you can change your id name from triple citizen to fourth citizen. lol.
(just kidding)
in your own objective opinion, which is better? US citizenship or EU citizenship?
- Thread starter Carlart
- Start date
triple citizen, you can marry an Italian so in 6 months, you can hold the fourth citizenship (EU citizen or Italian citizen). then you can change your id name from triple citizen to fourth citizen. lol.
(just kidding)TheRealist
Registered Users (C)
triple citizen, you can marry an Italian so in 6 months, you can hold the fourth citizenship (EU citizen or Italian citizen). then you can change your id name from triple citizen to fourth citizen. lol.
He was going to do just that. But changing of userid is a pain, so he gave up.
triple citizen, you can marry an Italian so in 6 months, you can hold the fourth citizenship (EU citizen or Italian citizen). then you can change your id name from triple citizen to fourth citizen. lol.
Actually he was thinking to change it to Quadriple Citizen!
immigrateful
Registered Users (C)
i became a US citizen just this month. my oldest cousin got her EU citizenship(as a naturalized citizen of Sweden) three month ago. she's been teasing me about why i became a US citizen when my house is filled with IKEA(Swedish) furniture from the Elizabeth, NJ, IKEA store and that i've bought/leased 4 new Volvos(technically Swedish) in the past 11 years.
not to mention the fact so many native-born American citizens have applied for EU citizenship in the last 4 years...
we've been debating the question below for a while now. but we'd like to hear what people in similary situation think:
in your own objective opinion, which is better? US citizenship or ancestral EU citizenship?
i do realize that this forum is surely going to biased in favor of US citizenship
Look for a study called "The EU vs. USA," done in 2004 by two economists - Fredrik Bergstrom and Robert Gidehag for the Swedish think tank Timbro.
Some highlights:
If Europe were part of the U.S., only tiny Luxembourg could rival the richest of the 50 American states in gross domestic product per capita. Most European countries would rank below the U.S. average
U.S. GDP per capita was a whopping 32% higher than the EU average in 2000, and the gap hasn't closed since. It is so wide that if the U.S. economy had frozen in place at 2000 levels while Europe grew, the Continent would still require years to catch up. Ireland, which has lower tax burdens and fewer regulations than the rest of the EU, would be the first but only by 2005. Switzerland, not a member of the EU, and Britain would get there by 2010. But Germany and Spain would need until 2015, while Italy, Sweden and Portugal would have to wait until 2022.
Higher GDP per capita allows the average American to spend about $9,700 more on consumption every year than the average European. So Yanks have by far more cars, TVs, computers and other modern goods. "Most Americans have a standard of living which the majority of Europeans will never come anywhere near," the Swedish study says.
But what about equality? Well, the percentage of Americans living below the poverty line has dropped to 12% from 22% since 1959. In 1999, 25% of American households were considered "low income," meaning they had an annual income of less than $25,000. If Sweden--the very model of a modern welfare state--were judged by the same standard, about 40% of its households would be considered low-income.
In other words poverty is relative, and in the U.S. a large 45.9% of the "poor" own their homes, 72.8% have a car and almost 77% have air conditioning, which remains a luxury in most of Western Europe. The average living space for poor American households is 1,200 square feet. In Europe, the average space for all households, not just the poor, is 1,000 square feet.
I wonder if this is still true... The Euro vs Dollar ratios has changed a lot in recent years, so the distance may have shrinked a lot lately...
I would love to get either one...
My grandma gave up her Spanish citizenship many many years ago, to keep the Mexican, since in Mexico you were only allowed to have one, but I would have liked that she regained it once people were allowed to have dual-citizenship in Mexico...
immigrateful
Registered Users (C)
It probably still holds true despite the falling dollar.
The US fundamentals are sound and strong. There are stark differences between the EU nations and the USA originating from the socialist vs. capitalist philosophies.
Moreover, IMO, most of the European powers financed their industrialization through colonization whereas the US financed it's industrialization by focusing on building internal strengths. Wealth created in the US is a result of those internal strengths and likely to perpetuate much longer. The EU might keep the number 2 position for a while, perhaps even for even a century in this post-colonial world but it will gradually fade away in to the background.
As far as our lifetimes go, being in the US with a US citizenship is the best option any person on this planet can have.
immigrateful
Registered Users (C)
Do you have any numbers for this? Do those numbers indicate a sharp or noticeable change from the normal emigration pattern from the US to Europe?
few other things to consider:-
- only the US (as far as i know) provides the individual freedom rights as it does (bill of rights)
so how does that help? you are free in every sense of the word. don't know about europe, but don't they have certain restrictions on the freedom of speech?
- size of the economy - US economy is way bigger than europe
so how does that help? how much does your friend pay for the same car that she buys in europe? things are probably never going to be cheaper in europe than they are in the US
- entrepreneurship and support for small businesses - how long does it take to get a business off the ground in the US versus in europe?
it'll probably always be easier to get a job in the US versus the europe
not biased. just my observations. please correct me if i am wrong.
other things that i have noticed - that may or may not factor in -
- ever had the urge to go shopping on sundays or after 6pm? everything's shut in europe as far as i know
- everything is just so expensive!
- sizes of the backyards and the houses.
- sizes of the cars and trucks.
- only the US (as far as i know) provides the individual freedom rights as it does (bill of rights)
so how does that help? you are free in every sense of the word. don't know about europe, but don't they have certain restrictions on the freedom of speech?
- size of the economy - US economy is way bigger than europe
so how does that help? how much does your friend pay for the same car that she buys in europe? things are probably never going to be cheaper in europe than they are in the US
- entrepreneurship and support for small businesses - how long does it take to get a business off the ground in the US versus in europe?
it'll probably always be easier to get a job in the US versus the europe
not biased. just my observations. please correct me if i am wrong.
other things that i have noticed - that may or may not factor in -
- ever had the urge to go shopping on sundays or after 6pm? everything's shut in europe as far as i know
- everything is just so expensive!
- sizes of the backyards and the houses.
- sizes of the cars and trucks.
From what I see, the US is a great country for the young or rich and the EU is excellent when old or poor.
If you are young or rich, you don't have to worry about health care mostly. For the old and poor the state helps with this issue in the EU.
When Boatbod said EU healthcare has wait times, that is true. This doesn't happen in the US because there are 45 million who are not visiting Drs when they want to. So basically if these people did somehow get their own insurance, even if it is not state paid, then waittimes would be seen here also. We can't trample on the poor just because we may have to wait in a line.
Since when did a large car or house = happiness? So the EU houses and cars are small. But they also have excellent public transport, and services like grocery and parks are close to houses. In the US people are used to living in suburbs and then driving everywhere, is that a better model?
So what if the American can buy 9k worth of stuff? Does it matter when parents have to work two jobs and are barely involved in the kid's life? The EU has excellent paternity and maternity leave and they are generally happier but of course they are not perfect either. When we vacationed there, everything was more expensive. We felt happy to be back in the US ;-)
If you are young or rich, you don't have to worry about health care mostly. For the old and poor the state helps with this issue in the EU.
When Boatbod said EU healthcare has wait times, that is true. This doesn't happen in the US because there are 45 million who are not visiting Drs when they want to. So basically if these people did somehow get their own insurance, even if it is not state paid, then waittimes would be seen here also. We can't trample on the poor just because we may have to wait in a line.
Since when did a large car or house = happiness? So the EU houses and cars are small. But they also have excellent public transport, and services like grocery and parks are close to houses. In the US people are used to living in suburbs and then driving everywhere, is that a better model?
So what if the American can buy 9k worth of stuff? Does it matter when parents have to work two jobs and are barely involved in the kid's life? The EU has excellent paternity and maternity leave and they are generally happier but of course they are not perfect either. When we vacationed there, everything was more expensive. We felt happy to be back in the US ;-)
Well said. According to a recent survey, Americans work more hours and get less personal time off than anyone else in the world.
The ONLY reason I decided to become an American was because of the Constitution.
Specifically, the Second Amendment of the Constitutuion which gives citizens the right to bear arm. (which was recently re-affirmed by the US Supreme Court... the right of citizens to keep legal arms and defend themselves)
Please correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't know any EU nation(or any other nation on this planet for that matter) that provides this consitutional right to its citizens.
I am a loyal NRA supporter and I donate as much money to them as I can afford.
Specifically, the Second Amendment of the Constitutuion which gives citizens the right to bear arm. (which was recently re-affirmed by the US Supreme Court... the right of citizens to keep legal arms and defend themselves)
Please correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't know any EU nation(or any other nation on this planet for that matter) that provides this consitutional right to its citizens.
I am a loyal NRA supporter and I donate as much money to them as I can afford.
Last edited by a moderator:
I think we should close this thread. It totally depends from individual to individual. If you have voting for this, I think most of us will like to have US citizenship than EU. If you are prince Charles or Harry then I don't think you would consider to become a US citizenship until and unless you don't get poontang! in Europe!
HudsonValley
Registered Users (C)
The ONLY reason I decided to become an American was because of the Constitution.
Specifically, the Second Amendment of the Constitutuion which gives citizens the right to bear arm. (which was recently re-affirmed by the US Supreme Court... the right of citizens to keep legal arms and defend themselves)
Please correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't know any EU nation(or any other nation on this planet for that matter) that provides this consitutional right to its citizens.
I am a loyal NRA supporter and I donate as much money to them as I can afford.
What does NRA stand for in your case?
About owning weapons. Is it really necessary to make a prosperous society?
HudsonValley
Registered Users (C)
Agree.
It would be interesting to hear out people who have lived both in EU and USA, who have first hand experience, know what they are talking about, but not something they have read, seen on TV, heard from smb else
There is no EU citizenship
Few objective opinions:
- you cannot apply for EU citizenship. It is a corollary of being a citizen of an EU member. Based on the country of citizenship, you might have some of the rights suspended. I believe the citizens of recently co-opted Bulgaria and Romania are not free to accept a job offer for another several years.
- politically, EU is not USA. There is no federal government and federal protection. There is huge bureaucracy and that is about it.
- unless you are native, or you move in elite business or academic circles you will not be a member of the community. While there is stereotyping in the US, it is dwarfed by what happens in Europe. Your best hope is to be a member of a 'dumb' nation, since the alternatives are lazy, thieves, liars, rude&aggressive, filthy...
Few objective opinions:
- you cannot apply for EU citizenship. It is a corollary of being a citizen of an EU member. Based on the country of citizenship, you might have some of the rights suspended. I believe the citizens of recently co-opted Bulgaria and Romania are not free to accept a job offer for another several years.
- politically, EU is not USA. There is no federal government and federal protection. There is huge bureaucracy and that is about it.
- unless you are native, or you move in elite business or academic circles you will not be a member of the community. While there is stereotyping in the US, it is dwarfed by what happens in Europe. Your best hope is to be a member of a 'dumb' nation, since the alternatives are lazy, thieves, liars, rude&aggressive, filthy...
cafeconleche
Registered Users (C)
Americans can have big, expensive and inefficient things (cars?). Yes, we have the luxury of that here. Europeans, instead, have higher petrol costs, smaller cars with tiny engines, fewer luxuries sometimes. They CAN have bigger houses, but a little outside the city. Europe is not a backwater. They're just relatively efficient compared to those in the US. Things are changing, though.
cafeconleche
Registered Users (C)
Dude, if this thread is stupid, STAY OUT OF IT.
cafeconleche
Registered Users (C)
Blah blah blah...