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High School Certificates vs Degrees ... ATT: gemofthecarib

L

luckySAboy

Registered Users (C)
Hi,

I keep reading about having to submit high school certificates and so on. I graduated secondary (high) school in the Caribbean 20 years ago and can't locate my high school certificate.

However, I have all three of my degree certificates (bachelor's and two master's from two U.S. universities). Do I still have to present the high school certificates? It seems to me that one can only attend university after completing a certain number of years of high school, so having to present high school certificates seems a bit unnecessary. Can someone shed some light on this?

gemofthecarib, if you could comment on this, I would be very grateful.

thanks
 
No spend your time, i have already had my interview and i m radiologist.they only want see the high school certificates (finished)
 
However, I have all three of my degree certificates (bachelor's and two master's from two U.S. universities). Do I still have to present the high school certificates?
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Not necessarily. You could prove it is not obtainable instead. You could provide a written denial from the school or the secondary educational authorities to issue a duplicate. That'll do.
 
Thanks for the clarification...

I could request a new high school certificate, but it's such a hassle.

I guess I could prove I have the two years of relevant experience, which I do. What evidence do they need to prove this, a job letter?
 
Yes, a job letter. Then you might have not high school certificate at all, Princeton PhD diploma is enough.
 
luckySAboy said:
Thanks for the clarification...

I could request a new high school certificate, but it's such a hassle.

I guess I could prove I have the two years of relevant experience, which I do. What evidence do they need to prove this, a job letter?
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Whether it's a hassle depends on how important a US green card is to you. If you couldn't care either way whether you get it, then save yourself the effort of obtaining the certificate.

Otherwise...

The visa requirements are clearly stated: "a high school education or its equivalent" ... "...successful completion of a formal course or elementary and secondary education..."

In theory you should be okay with your degrees and this is usually accepted. However you should be aware that there is some risk to this approach. Petitioners have been rejected for fronting up with advanced education diplomas but no evidence of high school education.

At the very least you would need to have a good reason for not being able to present evidence of your high school education.

If the rest of your profile is solid - good work experience, good funds to support yourself, etc. - then you will probably be okay with just the degrees.

The work experience route is potentially complicated and you should not attempt this without professional legal help. A job letter is not enough. You need to prove that your job description matches one of the narrow job description in the On*Net database.
 
Hi -- I'm a Princeton and Cambridge grad. I don't know how you can attend these universities without completing a high school education. I've also worked in the U.S. for six years in H1-B status in job zone 4 roles (I checked the O*Net Online Database) at leading companies before moving to the UK to study and where I currently work in a job 4 role at a leading company. Are you saying that my work experience would be difficult to prove with job letters from these companies? I'd like to believe that consular officers are intelligent, rational human beings. Am I wrong in that assumption?

And yes, I do want the visa, I just don't want unnecessary hassle.

Any guidance welcome
 
The visa requirements are merely minimums. Proof of a degree is more than adequate.
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Provided everything is clear with your high school diploma. Either the consul can look at it or they need to know why you cannot provide it or a duplicate. I guess they could question your university degree if you do not have high school diploma.
 
I mean if you have Princeton degree without high school diploma, they should be able to verify how you were admitted into Princeton. And you have to provide input for that - you have to prove you had a high school diploma when you were admitted, or you have to prove you did not have it and still were admitted into Princeton.

So that they could write to Princeton and ask them if they really admitted you without a high school degree.

If you do not provide input enough, they could suspect fraud. Less likely for princeton, more likely for a non-US university
 
Raevsky,

Thanks for your guidance, but let's think about this logically. The basic visa requirements stated in the first NL letter says:

"You must have either a high school education or sufficient work experience to qualify for a Diversity Visa."

When I read this, I took it to mean that a high school education is, as TheRealCanadian suggested, the minimum requirement. Likewise, two years work experience in a job zone 4 or 5 occupation would be the minimum requirement to qualify under work experience. So a person has two ways by which he/she can qualify.

Now, assume someone has a degree from a reputable US university, but is unable to locate his/her high school diploma. I imagine the consular officer may still want to see the high school diploma. But if my experience dealing with consular officers is any guide (I have applied for and received F, B and H1-B visas in the past), they are not that irrational. Obviously, if they are interviewing someone who has not graduated from a reputable university they might suspect fraud and demand to see a high school diploma. But faced with someone with degrees from two of the world's leading universities, I can't see why they would demand to see a high school diploma. To prove what? Even if Princeton admitted me without a high school diploma (very unlikely), a consular officer would still be impressed and would likely waive the high school requirement.

I think we need to keep in mind that we are dealing with human beings here. While they're guided by certain guidelines they are flexible enough to use common sense when it is required.

In any event, as I pointed out above, someone can qualify either by having a high school education or work experience. I have both, so I think with job letters to prove my job zone 4 experience and my degrees, I should be fine.

What say ye?
 
luckySAboy,

If we all agree that your assessment is correct and bow to you for graduating from Princeton and Cambridge, would you let this die. While you may think your logic is sound, the final decision lay with the CP officier. It is as simple as that.

By the way why did you not apply for your LPR when you were had H1B status. Outside of the DV path, H1B candidates may be one of the easiest way to obtain an immigrant visa
 
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luckySAboy said:
Even if Princeton admitted me without a high school diploma (very unlikely), a consular officer would still be impressed and would likely waive the high school requirement.
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Uh, no. Consular officers are not "impressed" by anything. Either you meet the legal requirements or you do not.
 
I guess they could question your university degree if you do not have high school diploma.
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What I meant here is not that they would question the university degree because you do not have high school diploma, but that they could question the very fact you obtained that degree without fraud.
 
I agree with Raevsky that the perceived quality of the degree is likely to be the most important factor for petitioners who front up without high school records. (I thought you were making a joke when you said "Princeton PhD diploma is enough" but this guy really does have a Princeton degree. lol.)

I can't imagine any problems for a holder of a well-documented degree from Princeton/Cambridge.

However be cautious if there is any reason for the consular officer to suspect that the degree might not be genuine, or if the degree is from a little known college. There are plenty of dubious "US degrees" available from unofficial overseas franchices of US universities. (Sometimes without a US university backing up the program.)

A petitioner who has already qualified for an H1-B is unlikley to have difficulties using the work experience option. (However make sure that the job role is well documented.)
 
Raevsky, slackerdemigod -- Thank you very much for your guidance and insights. You have helped to put my mind at ease regarding the high school certficate/diploma. Just to be on the safe side, I'm going to ask my high school to send me a letter confirming that I have completed the required number of years of high school education. Would that be good enough or do I have to get an actual certificate from the examination body? A new certificate would cost me £75. That's money I could use to cover other fees, so I would prefer not to have to spend it unnecessarily. Any advice welcome...


Medpharm -- Is that jealousy I hear? ... just kidding :). Do me a favor and read my first two posts in this thread. You will see that I didn't mention where I went to school and stated my case in generic terms. I sent Raevsky a private message about my situation and mentioned my qualifications. Raevsky responded to my private message on the public forum, mentioning my Princeton degree. Since it was already out there, I decided to lay out all the facts in response to guidance that Raevsky and others provided.

So your insinuation that I am somehow trying to showboat is misguided. I joined this forum to get answers to questions regarding the DV process, not to showboat.

Indeed, the consular officer's decision is final at the end of the day. I was merely trying to think through the process based on my own past experiences dealing with consular officers. I could be wrong. But so could you. Who knows what will happen? I've read the experiences of several people on this forum who have processed their DVs and their experiences vary widely based on:

a) The specific consular post they process at
b) The individual consular officer they see on the day

So let's see how it goes when my turn comes around. Hopefully, I'll be successful and we can go grab a beer afterwards :).

As for why I didn't seek a green card while in H1-B status? The guidance I got from the company's lawyer was that an employer filing would take between 4-5 years. That's the same amount of time my relative petition filed by my father would have taken to come through. I decided that I didn't want to be tied to that company anymore and decided instead to use the UK's Highly Skilled Program to kill some time while my relative petition worked it's way through. Here in the UK, I can work anywhere I want, something I could not do in H1-B. Plus, the overseas work experience is great for my resume. Pity the pound is in such a rut of late.


TheRealCanadian -- Thanks for your guidance... But tell me: are you a consular officer? I'm not. Nor am I an immigration lawyer. How do we know for certain that a consular officer would not be impressed with the situation I've outlined? In any event, the situation I outlined is unrealistic (if you find someone who attended Princeton without a high school education please let me know.).
 
How do we know for certain that a consular officer would not be impressed with the situation I've outlined
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That is their job not to be impressed.

A new certificate would cost me £75.
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Well. Is your school in UK? Then probably a letter from school + Princeton degree should be enough.
If your school is in Bangladesh, I would ask a duplicate of school graduation certificate.
 
Raevsky -- My high school is in the Caribbean. Like many former British colonies, we took British GCE (Advanced level or A-level) exams set by Cambridge University at 18. In preparation for A levels, we sat Ordinary level exams at 16 after five years of secondary school. And most students do 6-7 years of primary school.

So that's typically:

6 years of primary (elementary) school
7 years of secondary (high) school (5 for Ordinary exams, 2 for Advanced exams)
 
If the GCE certificate is just a matter of £75 then personally I would spend the money and get a copy. (Hey, £75 is not worth much these days! ;-)

Although it is highly unlikely you will have problems presenting only your degree transcripts and diplomas, evidence of your high school examination results will remove that uncertainty. You seem to be looking for reassurance and I have a feeling the wait for your interview will happier if you have a copy of your GCE results.

You will only get one shot at this. It's a great opportunity so why not close the loopholes?

On the other hand if you are struggling to meet financial goals and £75 really is a big deal, then you're okay without the GCE results.

On TheRealCanadian's comments - I think you misunderstood him(her?).

Here are several alternatives for "impressed" suggested by Microsoft Office, (but what would they know):
  • frightened
  • overcome
  • overwhelmed
  • daunted
  • intimidated
  • fearful
  • awed
Consular officers are never (or at least should not be) "impressed" or "not impressed". Their job is to simply look at the facts and make an objective assessment.
However, we can't blame them for just occasionally getting irritated at the endless stream of poorly-documented cases and the occasional petitioner bent on misleading and outright lying to them.
 
Hi all,

Quick follow up to my earlier question:

Would a sealed letter from my country's embassy in London confirming that I have completed high school work in place of a high school certificate/diploma?

thanks
 
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