Have you ever committed a crime or offense for which you were not arrested?

here's the article


Justices: DUI Not Grounds for Deportation
template_bas
template_bas
By David G. Savage, Times Staff Writer
12:51 PM PST, November 9, 2004
WASHINGTON — The Supreme Court today spared millions of legal immigrants from the threat of deportation for a drunken driving accident.

In an opinion written by ailing Chief Justice William H. Rehnquist, the high court disagreed with the Bush administration and ruled drunken driving is not a "crime of violence," even if others are injured in an accident.

A crime of violence refers to a deliberate use of force to hurt another person, not an accident that results in an injury, Rehnquist said.

The 9-0 decision limits the impact of a 1996 immigration reform law. According to that law, immigrants, including those who have lived legally in the United States for many years, shall be deported if they commit a serious crime, including any "crime of violence."

In most states, drunken driving that results in death or injury is a serious crime that can send the motorist to jail for a year or more. The question for the Supreme Court was whether the motorist would also be deported after he left jail.

The law defined a crime of violence as the "use of physical force against another," and Justice Department lawyers argued that accidents were included. "Someone who drunkenly (though unintentionally) crashes his car into another has used physical force against his victim," they argued.

But Rehnquist and his colleagues disagreed. They said that in the normal use of language, the phrase "use of force" implies an intent. "Thus, a person would 'use ... physical force against' another when pushing him; however, would not ordinarily say a person 'uses ... physical force against' another by stumbling and falling into him," the chief justice wrote.

The ruling came in the case of Josue Leocal, a Haitian immigrant who had lived in south Florida nearly 20 years and was a father of four. In January 2000, he drove through a red light after midnight in the Miami area and struck another car. Two people were injured in the accident, and Leocal later pleaded guilty to drunken driving. He was sentenced to 2½ years in prison.

While he was behind bars, the Immigration and Naturalization Service moved to deport him to Haiti. It said drunken driving that results in an injury is a crime of violence, and an "aggravated felony" that demands deportation. The U.S. Court of Appeals in Atlanta agreed, and Leocal was shipped to Haiti two years ago. He now is free to return.

But the Supreme Court voted to hear his appeal in the case of Leocal vs. Ashcroft because lower courts were split on the issue. The U.S. 9th Circuit Court of Appeals on the West Coast had refused to deport lawful immigrants for drunken driving violations.

The United States had 11.4 million immigrants who are legal permanent residents, the Department of Homeland Security said in 2002. By some estimates, the nation has 20 million legal immigrants counting all those who are here on short-term visas.
 
I have been trying to find the case online unsuccessfully. If anyone can find it I'd also like to know exactly what went on in the trial and what was the abuse. I think the press release was carefully crafted to mislead and be sensationalist. It is particularly outrageous when they add the line about national security. What national security purpose is served by prosecuting this guy? I think it is sad that the government is acting this way. It seems to me that in layman words what they say is that there was some domestic violence and he failed to report this in the form. For me it doesn't seem such a big deal, I mean not to the point of denaturalizing someone. It's annoying to see this rising immigrant-hunt. Long are gone the president's speeches defending the contributions of immigrants to this society.

It used to be that permanent residents could breathe easy when they obtained that status. 1996 made sure that they couldn't breathe easy anymore. It used to be that naturalization would allow you to breathe easy. It seems with flimsy cases like this, it is not the case anymore. I would think that taxpayer's money would serve a better purpose if they fixed USCIS instead of spending money in prosecuting these stupid cases.

My 2 cents.

This is scary. Anyone knows what instigated the investigation in the first place? Does USCIS routinely investigate all processed naturalization apps afterwards? Or was there something in the name check that showed up that triggered the investigation? Weird!
 
This is scary. Anyone knows what instigated the investigation in the first place? Does USCIS routinely investigate all processed naturalization apps afterwards? Or was there something in the name check that showed up that triggered the investigation? Weird!

The USCIS fraud division routinely investigates the information provided on naturalization forms and cross references it with information not found during the the interview.
 
This brings me to the same question I asked a few times on this forum, but never got an answer for. In April 1997, I got a desk appearance ticket for trespassing while I was waiting for a friend outside of his school. I appeared in court, and the ticket was dismissed through an ACD (Adjudication in Contemplation of Dismissal). An ACD is a full dismissal of the case and expungement of record, provided the recepient of the desk appearance ticket doesn't get in trouble with the law within 6 months. I didn't list this summons on my N-400, but I planned on mentioning it at the interview. I went to the court where I originally appeared for the hearing and requested a copy of the disposition. The court had no record of any kind for me. I even went so far as to go to the criminal records bureau and request a copy of my criminal record. My record came out crystal clear, with no mention of the desk appearance ticket.

I'm worried that if I mention it at the interview, the IO will demand a copy of the disposition, which is something that I cannot obtain (believe me, I've tried). Should I just leave well enough alone and not mention it at all or should I risk further delay of my case and bring it up? Besides the fact that the ticket was completely dismissed (even if it wasn't, the offense wasn't deportable), it's way outside of the 5 year good moral conduct window. Any thoughts?
 
This brings me to the same question I asked a few times on this forum, but never got an answer for. In April 1997, I got a desk appearance ticket for trespassing while I was waiting for a friend outside of his school. I appeared in court, and the ticket was dismissed through an ACD (Adjudication in Contemplation of Dismissal). An ACD is a full dismissal of the case and expungement of record, provided the recepient of the desk appearance ticket doesn't get in trouble with the law within 6 months. I didn't list this summons on my N-400, but I planned on mentioning it at the interview. I went to the court where I originally appeared for the hearing and requested a copy of the disposition. The court had no record of any kind for me. I even went so far as to go to the criminal records bureau and request a copy of my criminal record. My record came out crystal clear, with no mention of the desk appearance ticket.

I'm worried that if I mention it at the interview, the IO will demand a copy of the disposition, which is something that I cannot obtain (believe me, I've tried). Should I just leave well enough alone and not mention it at all or should I risk further delay of my case and bring it up? Besides the fact that the ticket was completely dismissed (even if it wasn't, the offense wasn't deportable), it's way outside of the 5 year good moral conduct window. Any thoughts?

Even I was charged with assault (by vehicle) about 7 years ago and later went to court mediation to have the charges dropped after both parties apologized. I was never arrested and never charged for the incident. I didn't include this on the application as I knew it would potentially raise red flags and delays on the USCIS side since they are liable to find any excuse to question your moral character. Am I worried about it coming up later? No, as this is not the kind of charges that the fraud department is interested in investigating. Now if I was arrested and charged for the incident I wouldn't have any issues with declaring it. Knowing how the USCIS works and understanding the immigration laws made me feel that not declaring the incident was the right thing to do.
 
Even I was charged with assault (by vehicle) about 7 years ago and later went to court mediation to have the charges dropped after both parties apologized. I was never arrested and never charged for the incident. I didn't include this on the application as I knew it would potentially raise red flags and delays on the USCIS side since they are liable to find any excuse to question your moral character. Am I worried about it coming up later? No, as this is not the kind of charges that the fraud department is interested in investigating. Now if I was arrested and charged for the incident I wouldn't have any issues with declaring it. Knowing how the USCIS works and understanding the immigration laws made me feel that not declaring the incident was the right thing to do.

The I guess I made the right decision. I was never arrested, just asked to show my ID, then issued the ticket. I figured that if the court has no record of it, then it won't be very easy to dredge it up.
 
Re: Acd

This brings me to the same question I asked a few times on this forum, but never got an answer for. In April 1997, I got a desk appearance ticket for trespassing while I was waiting for a friend outside of his school. I appeared in court, and the ticket was dismissed through an ACD (Adjudication in Contemplation of Dismissal). An ACD is a full dismissal of the case and expungement of record, provided the recepient of the desk appearance ticket doesn't get in trouble with the law within 6 months. I didn't list this summons on my N-400, but I planned on mentioning it at the interview. I went to the court where I originally appeared for the hearing and requested a copy of the disposition. The court had no record of any kind for me. I even went so far as to go to the criminal records bureau and request a copy of my criminal record. My record came out crystal clear, with no mention of the desk appearance ticket.

I'm worried that if I mention it at the interview, the IO will demand a copy of the disposition, which is something that I cannot obtain (believe me, I've tried). Should I just leave well enough alone and not mention it at all or should I risk further delay of my case and bring it up? Besides the fact that the ticket was completely dismissed (even if it wasn't, the offense wasn't deportable), it's way outside of the 5 year good moral conduct window. Any thoughts?

It looks to me as this is a 100% administrative citation and not at all a criminal citation.- Let's say for example: Someone could get cited to go to court every week in the course of their business practices. Does that mean that he has to disclose it, absolutely not. It is like mixing apples with pears.

All citations have an administrative face a some of them come with a criminal face too. But yours, it sounds to me, was purely administrative. I would not worry about it. I am sure these people have more important things to worry about such as terrorists disguising themselves as honest residents.
 
... Am I worried about it coming up later? No, as this is not the kind of charges that the fraud department is interested in investigating. .

That begs the question: what kind of charges is the fraud dept keen on investigating? I'm still curious in the case that was cited in the ongoing discussion (the deportation of the Mexican immigrant case) what triggered it. The statement "was known to exhibit violence towards his wife" - how did they come to that conclusion? Do they interview neighbors or what?

:(
 
Tabaliya I am also very curious about that as well. What is a deportable offence? How do they go about investigating cases? Was this NC already under investigation for the same offence, and it came out? I mean do they investigate all applications at some point?
 
It looks to me as this is a 100% administrative citation and not at all a criminal citation.- Let's say for example: Someone could get cited to go to court every week in the course of their business practices. Does that mean that he has to disclose it, absolutely not. It is like mixing apples with pears.

All citations have an administrative face a some of them come with a criminal face too. But yours, it sounds to me, was purely administrative. I would not worry about it. I am sure these people have more important things to worry about such as terrorists disguising themselves as honest residents.

I agree. Worst case scenario, I can always get an attorney and plead ignorance at a later date!
 
That begs the question: what kind of charges is the fraud dept keen on investigating? I'm still curious in the case that was cited in the ongoing discussion (the deportation of the Mexican immigrant case) what triggered it. The statement "was known to exhibit violence towards his wife" - how did they come to that conclusion? Do they interview neighbors or what?

:(

Perhaps the police was called to his address on previous occasions, but no arrest has been made. A police officer is required to file a report of every call he/she receives at the end of his/her shift, which would make such information readily available.
 
As for as commiting a crime that you were never caught for, I am sure 99% of the population has indeed commited some kind of offence. If it was buying alcoholic beverages as a teen or even smoking a cigarette as a minor. If you have to sit there and list every thing you think you have possibly done wrong I really think that the Nat process would be even longer than it is right now.
 
That begs the question: what kind of charges is the fraud dept keen on investigating? I'm still curious in the case that was cited in the ongoing discussion (the deportation of the Mexican immigrant case) what triggered it. The statement "was known to exhibit violence towards his wife" - how did they come to that conclusion? Do they interview neighbors or what?

:(

Perhaps someone informed USCIS that he had a history in Mexico for assaulting his wife and the fraud division launched an investigation and found this to be true and therefore deported him for lying on his application.
In any case it had to be compelling information for them to take action...someone simply stating that they saw him beat his wife is not conclusive evidence until it can be proven to be true, whereas his wife testifying under oath that he beat her is conclusive enough for the USCIS to find him guilty of lying.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
We are paranoid over this question... I think people who are deported most of the time have committed some deportable offence. If you state that you got speeding tickets, but not DWI... I don't think they will deport you for that....

However if you are caught stealing in a departmental store then of course they will have problem with that...

Just think would you like someone from another country to live in your country if you know he steals stuffs from the stores or drinks and drives etc?

They are thinking the same way.

The problem I have with USCIS is the way they do things... name check? They need to find a better way to deal with that... why not do some kind of check themselves instead of hiring FBI for that ... damn those FBI they think that they are the best in the world.... they need to get efficient or not get involved in Name Check step for USCIS....
 
The issue with the minor arrests and other non-convictions is not about naturalization; you probably will naturalize whether you list them or not. The real issue is about them using it against you in the future if you ever get entangled with the law. Anything you leave out gives them the opportunity to say "you lied on the application" if they ever find out, and possibly deport you for that lying. If any of the Duke lacrosse players were naturalized citizens, the DA would have most certainly had somebody dig into their immigration records to try to uncover any discrepancy that would enable them to point to a lie, so that even if acquitted of the original crime they could still get the last laugh by having them deported.
 
The issue with the minor arrests and other non-convictions is not about naturalization; you probably will naturalize whether you list them or not. The real issue is about them using it against you in the future if you ever get entangled with the law. Anything you leave out gives them the opportunity to say "you lied on the application" if they ever find out, and possibly deport you for that lying. If any of the Duke lacrosse players were naturalized citizens, the DA would have most certainly had somebody dig into their immigration records to try to uncover any discrepancy that would enable them to point to a lie, so that even if acquitted of the original crime they could still get the last laugh by having them deported.

It all depends on what the courts consider a lie..I would hope that it would mean "purposeful deceit".
 
Vorpal! A ticket which was dismissed and expunged more than 5 years ago - for which you are not able to get any records !! I'd say, forget it. Don't mention it in the interview. You'll be fine.
 
Vorpal! A ticket which was dismissed and expunged more than 5 years ago - for which you are not able to get any records !! I'd say, forget it. Don't mention it in the interview. You'll be fine.

My thoughts exactly. When I went to the courthouse to get a copy of the disposition, the clerk who couldn't find anything in their system even turned his monitor toward me, so I could see what he was typing. He attempted different permutations of my first name and last name, and nothing came up. Two records came up for individuals with the same first name and the same first initial of the last name as mine, but both had different birth dates, addresses, and SSNs. Disclosing this to an IO is one can of worms I don't want to open.
 
My story is of pain. I believe we are all immigrants even those who are born citizens. I sponsored my husband from India of my free will. Believing he was a good person. I felt sorry for his woes in life and his families too. Soon after marriage he was violent didn't help with bills, and went to family functions without me. I left him 3 months into the marriage. He entered on a seaman's visa which it is my understanding that easiest way to become legal is to marry a USC. I admitt I was naive and ignorant to immigration laws. My children and I will pay for my mis judgement of the man I married. Everything was premeditated. I moved 2 states away he begged and I allowed him back in my life. He beat me, choked me and I allowed it (MY FAULT), I made my adult daughter my protector during this attacks. Bad mother for showing her to allow anyone to harm you physically. I just wanted to believe his promise that he would change. He could be the nicest man and was so apologetic after the abuse. After 3 miscarriages, he continued to beg me to have a child. Finally I did carry a our son, who was born pre-mature and with many health issues. I spent the next three years day and night caring for him. My mother left her home to live with us for 8 mths, my daughter took 1 year off of college to help with her brother. He and his mother knew even before the attorney told us what upcoming documents or forms were needed to be completed. I later learned that all their stories were lies. Here I was with a sick child and I learn of his real identity. We had a big fight and since that date I have not seen any of his documentation (Indian passport.) I stayed believing I couldn't work full time and care for this innocent child. That decision I still feel was the right one. I later learn that he has multiple girlfriends. He became addicted to pornography, claiming when he worked out of town a man needed to release himself. When I met him he made $5.50 hr. My sister got him a job with the company she works for he began making over 100k per year. He checked off the citizen block when he didn't have to he could have told the truth he was a valid green card holder. I learned of his identity when his mother called to wish hiim a Happy Birthday on Feb 21, 2003, our son was six months old and still required 24/7 care. His name could have been Mickey Mouse I cared if our son lived or died. Next day and since I have never seen his Indian passport. Life changed. He did as he pleased, came as he pleased. Just one month before I learned of his identity we did the final greencard interview. I should have know something he didnt have a birth certificate the day of the interview his Aunt and Uncle sent via our attorney an affidavit stating he was born at home. In 2004 I told him if he ever hit me again I would call the police and have him put in jail. Physical abuse stopped but financial and verbal abuse replaced it. I went 1 year without a haircut or bra. He had the best of best. He felt I was a stay at home mom why did I need such luxuries. I endured for the sake of our son. I am not stupid but a part of me loved the man I thought he was and another part feared him. I lived in tourment. Finally in June 2008 I learned of another gf and I could not take it anymore, I asked him to leave and told him if he came back I would call the police. Only God will ever know the following is truth. Three weeks later, my neighbor was helping me with yard work and found buried under some tools his N-400 application for citizenship, he lied 10 times on this application. Ten days later I am asking my sister his boss about a co-workers recovery from a serious foot surgery and she said oo Robin she is in big trouble with the IRS. I said what for? Sister informed me that she claimed the company wasn't re-imbursing for hotel/meals. I said they don't, my sister said oo but in 2005 they changed policy. I was in horror, I realized I have been signing joint returns and had no idea what he was doing with his expense checks. Since early 2005 after me telling him if he hit me again I would call police he got a post office box, withheld the PIN# from joint bank account, took me off all credit cards, and lived his own life. On July 21, 2008 my world forever changed. My adult daughter and I had an arguement about her helping me while I was preparing the a case for ICE, based on the N-400 our neighbor found in the garage. She yelled mom you don't know what that SOB did to me. I said what are you talking about. She said he assaulted her sexually while she was sleeping in her bed.. He had his digits in her vaginal area. I called the police, next am we went to the police station. When we got home my mother was in the drive way crying, my brother had passed away that night. My life has been HELL since. During a custody hearing he took the 5th amendment to his name and date of birth and was still given unsupervised visitations. I begged him to be a father to our son. He was to busy, tired, etc.. I asked him what have you contributed to his successess in life. Are you a father he will respect and wish to immulate in life? In 2007 I tried to leave he said "is 20k all the state of pa thinks our son is worth." I wanted a bond posted because he has threatened me with abduction of our son if I ever turned him into Immigrations. I had two choices for my future once I asked him to leave. Live in fear all my life of him or fight like HeL and pray for safety, truth, and justice. After six months he has been formally arrested and arrainged with two felony2 charges, and two misdameanor2 charges for what he did to my daughter.. I begged him three times to tell me how he could do this, rather than deny he offered me more money in the Marriage settlement to have my daughter drop the charges. He said save her the embarassment of a trial. Sept, Oct, Nov and Dec 2008 he has repeatedly threatened to abduct our son if I don't back off on ICE, that is a ball in motion that even if I wanted to I cannot stop. Two wkends ago a judge ordered me to give his father unsupervised visitation back. That weekend our son returned home with 10 bit marks on his buttocks.. His father held him down tickling him and biting him.. Our son Ajay said he told daddy it hurt but he kept on doing it. PA does not have child abuse laws. He admitted to Children and Youth he did this to our son then 4 days later with his attorney present said he did not recall doing such a thing and if he did it was not done maliciously. Well that was that because in PA you must prove criminal intent to prosecute because their are no child abuse laws. Someone email me teach me how to use this forum. I have learned a great deal on my own. But honestly more has happend he is taking me to court again for silly stuff. But I need help learning more about what can he do to wiggle out of his lies on the N-400 application. my email is robinhorton1962@yahoo.com. I'd appreciate the help and my children would too. No joy is in our lives not just fear, worry, and reacting to his actions. I just want peace and to give our son some happinees wihtout me doing paperwork, and crying. Pray for us, pray for safety, truth and justice. Any help would greatly be appreciated. His employer now knows he was not a citizen when he was hired but he threatened to sue them if they fired him because he is a citizen now. My sister is constantly threatened by him if she even documents what he does wrong at work. Please teach me and help me to help my family live through this nightmare.
 
Imo, the legitimacy of these type of stories come into question especially when they are in written in such emotional detail.

My biggest questions are:

a) How did he become citizen if he has criminal history?
b) What does this story have to do with the thread topic?
 
Top