have a appeal hearing next week.

[faysal]

Yes, I figure you'll have a better chance in an appeal, as it doesn't look like you got a fair and adequate hearing. However, appealing it in Federal court is expensive and there is usually a long wait (more than a year). It's probably better to just wait until 2012 and reapply when you're 3 years beyond the end of probation.

I like the suggestion, "to just wait until 2012 and reapply". Anything else would just exhaust you and do
nothing...

 

[duparas]

o.k. guys,thank you very much for your responds.i will answer all youe questions.
to Lateknight:i was 34 in 2002 and no - nobody advised me of immigration consequenses;
to Jckolantern:it's going to cast me from around $5,500.00 and up depends on which lawyer that's why is so important to find-out the best time to reapply - whether is 5 years after probation's end or 2,5 years +1 day after probation's end?
to Bobsmyth:basis for the appeal was that in the case of 3 arrests there is no pattern here because two desorderly conduct(violations) arrests were made in 1997 within 1 month by the same police oficer for the reason of i was not able to explain myself in english.and the basis for the second objection regarding not enough time passed to show a change of charachter - we have bought all the supporting letters including the one from my congreswoman,which were succesfully ignered.IMHO.
to faysal:it's like gessing on cards,-what is better to wait or spend money on federal appeal petition?that's why i'm so much thankful for peoples opinion on this forum!

 

[duparas]

sorry,i ment not we have bought but we have brought)

 

[duparas]

i will type the whole paragraph of thir letter here:
"your conduct and acts within and outside of the statury period demonstrate a pattern of behavior that adversely reflects upon your moral character.during the statutory period your conduct does not reflect a reform of character from the earlier period and earlier conduct ans acts appear relevant to the determination of your present moral character.the law states that the service is not limited to reviewing the applicant's conduct during the five years immediately preceding the filing of the application,but may take into consideration,as a basis for its determination,the applivant's conduct and acts at any time prior to that period.additionally,the service may take into account the standarts of the average citizen in the community of residence.you violated the law three times outside the statury period and your last arrest resulted in a felony sonviction for leaving the scene of the accident when person was injured.your probation that followed the guilty plea for the aforementioned felony was expired on march 23.2009 which means that you were not free from restrain for four years and eleven months within the statury period.after careful review of the evidence in your record and considering your testimony that you provided during your appeal hearing om march,22,2010,the servuce concludes that you have faoled to meet good moral character requrements for the purpose of naturalization and the decision to deny your application for naturalization must remainunchanged."

 

[Bobsmyth]

The felony conviction and subsequent 5 years of probation seem to be the basis of their denial. Had it been a misdemeanor or a felony with a 1 year probationary period you'd likely have a stronger case.

 

[duparas]

Bobsmyth i agree with you.But what next step for me would you recommend - follow with the petition to Court of appeal or wait and if wait - for haw long?thank you.

 

[Bobsmyth]

Bobsmyth i agree with you.But what next step for me would you recommend - follow with the petition to Court of appeal or wait and if wait - for haw long?thank you.

That depends on how much time and money you have to spend.
1) A Federal Lawsuit can be expensive and take some time.
2)Or, you can reapply now and try to show a stronger case that you have been rehabilitated.
3)Finally, you can reapply in 2 years when more time has passed since your probationary period.

 

[faysal]

o.k. guys,thank you very much for your responds.i will answer all youe questions.
to Lateknight:i was 34 in 2002 and no - nobody advised me of immigration consequenses;
to Jckolantern:it's going to cast me from around $5,500.00 and up depends on which lawyer that's why is so important to find-out the best time to reapply - whether is 5 years after probation's end or 2,5 years +1 day after probation's end?
to Bobsmyth:basis for the appeal was that in the case of 3 arrests there is no pattern here because two desorderly conduct(violations) arrests were made in 1997 within 1 month by the same police oficer for the reason of i was not able to explain myself in english.and the basis for the second objection regarding not enough time passed to show a change of charachter - we have bought all the supporting letters including the one from my congreswoman,which were succesfully ignered.IMHO.
to faysal:it's like gessing on cards,-what is better to wait or spend money on federal appeal petition?that's why i'm so much thankful for peoples opinion on this forum!

If I were you, I would simple wait for the 2 1/5 years. The federal appeal would cost you a lot of money. It
may take more than two 2 1/5 years, and USCIS has a good case which after two years and a lot of money
the appeals court may agree with the uscis and deny your appeal. Also for you think about this case in the
coming years is emotionally and financially hard.

Just put this behind you, and go about your life. After you become elligible again and you have saved some
some money, you will be ok. Otherwise if you try to fight it through the federal appeal's system, it may take
forever....good luck my friend...Good days are ahead in life

 

[Jackolantern]

to Jckolantern:it's going to cast me from around $5,500.00 and up depends on which lawyer that's why is so important to find-out the best time to reapply - whether is 5 years after probation's end or 2,5 years +1 day after probation's end?

Best in what sense? You'll have a better chance of approval if you apply 5 years after the probation ended, but it's worse in the sense that you'll have to wait longer.

If you reapply instead of appealing, it's not going to cost $5500. Unless you decide to make heavy use of a lawyer when you reapply.

This is my story in short.Back in 1997 i had been arrested twice for desorderly conduct of using obsceene language(violation).

Did those arrests result in a conviction, probation, fine, or any sort of penalty?

 

[duparas]

If I were you, I would simple wait for the 2 1/5 years. The federal appeal would cost you a lot of money. It
may take more than two 2 1/5 years, and USCIS has a good case which after two years and a lot of money
the appeals court may agree with the uscis and deny your appeal. Also for you think about this case in the
coming years is emotionally and financially hard.

Just put this behind you, and go about your life. After you become elligible again and you have saved some
some money, you will be ok. Otherwise if you try to fight it through the federal appeal's system, it may take
forever....good luck my friend...Good days are ahead in life

if it was just for me,-sure,no problem - could wait.The thing is my wife is undocumented(
but i will definitely consider your opinion.and thank you very much for good wishes!

 

[duparas]

Best in what sense? You'll have a better chance of approval if you apply 5 years after the probation ended, but it's worse in the sense that you'll have to wait longer.

If you reapply instead of appealing, it's not going to cost $5500. Unless you decide to make heavy use of a lawyer when you reapply.

Did those arrests result in a conviction, probation, fine, or any sort of penalty?

they resulted in $100 and $150 fine accordingly.it's like a ticket(it's violation too),-but for USCIC anything counts..sorry for bitterness,i just had a hope...

 

[duparas]

and also regarding "heavy use of lawyer".from my own expirience - use the consultation,use the lawyer's help in filling-up the papers,but unless it's a deportation case - don't take your lawyer for the interview! the USCIC officers become politely numb as soon as they see the lawyer(

 

[Jackolantern]

if it was just for me,-sure,no problem - could wait.The thing is my wife is undocumented(

Then it looks like you should reapply when it's more than 2.5 years after the end of probation, and if denied reapply again when it's 5 years after the end of probation.

If you're going for the 2.5 years option, wait until at least a month or two beyond the 2.5 year cutoff, so they won't be rounding it back to 2.5 years in their head.

 

[duparas]

Then it looks like you should reapply when it's more than 2.5 years after the end of probation, and if denied reapply again when it's 5 years after the end of probation.

If you're going for the 2.5 years option, wait until at least a month or two beyond the 2.5 year cutoff, so they won't be rounding it back to 2.5 years in their head.

yeah,i will probably do just that!no reason to waste more money..thanks again for all your input!you've been a lot of help!

 

[duparas]

Then it looks like you should reapply when it's more than 2.5 years after the end of probation, and if denied reapply again when it's 5 years after the end of probation.

If you're going for the 2.5 years option, wait until at least a month or two beyond the 2.5 year cutoff, so they won't be rounding it back to 2.5 years in their head.

i'm going to do it again next week - 3 years and 3 month after the end of probation.this time - myself,no lawyer. the immigration officers really clamp up in lawyer presence and don't ask any questions.i will keep you posted. one question i have though,-on two denials that I've received previously(original application and appeal) - there was nothing indicating a crime of moral turpitude thing is't really so or the immigration don;t put such a description on denial papers?
thanks a lot!

 

[madh4]

i'm going to do it again next week - 3 years and 3 month after the end of probation.this time - myself,no lawyer. the immigration officers really clamp up in lawyer presence and don't ask any questions.i will keep you posted. one question i have though,-on two denials that I've received previously(original application and appeal) - there was nothing indicating a crime of moral turpitude thing is't really so or the immigration don;t put such a description on denial papers?
thanks a lot!

Please re-read both the original denial letter and appeal rejection letter. Hope there is no mention of when you can reapply. Make it sure. I feel you should be OK applying next week. No need for lawyer.

 

[BigJoe5]

i'm going to do it again next week - 3 years and 3 month after the end of probation.this time - myself,no lawyer. the immigration officers really clamp up in lawyer presence and don't ask any questions.i will keep you posted. one question i have though,-on two denials that I've received previously(original application and appeal) - there was nothing indicating a crime of moral turpitude thing is't really so or the immigration don;t put such a description on denial papers?
thanks a lot!

A good deal of time has passed since you were convicted. When was the last conviction? If ALL convictions are now outside the statutory period AND probation has ended AND there has been nothing new, the result should be much better for you.

Previously you were convicted and then screwed up again rather quickly. There was bad behavior on top of bad behavior. Then there was ANOTHER screw up which resulted in a VERY long probationary period. What did the court records (disposition) indicate about how you behaved while "on probation"? Does the paper trail indicate any late payments, bench warrants, or violations? OR does the paper trail indicate proper and timely compliance?

While certain factors during the statutory period are mandatory reasons to deny, other components are subjective and involve a qualitative analysis in the exercise of discretion. They weigh the good vs. the bad and in the naturalization context, it does not take much to deny an application for discretionary reasons because it is so hard to "take it back".

INS got into trouble in the 1990s during CUSA (Citizenship USA) when it cut corners and naturalized a bunch of ineligible criminals in error. The trail end of those denaturalizations are still dragging through the ends of their appeal processes in courts around the country. Nowadays, USCIS errs on the side of caution. They would rather have a Judge take the fall for naturalizing a person of questionable GMC.

 

[duparas]

Please re-read both the original denial letter and appeal rejection letter. Hope there is no mention of when you can reapply. Make it sure. I feel you should be OK applying next week. No need for lawyer.

no,-there was no mention when. from their letter one could assume - forever denied

 

[duparas]

A good deal of time has passed since you were convicted. When was the last conviction? If ALL convictions are now outside the statutory period AND probation has ended AND there has been nothing new, the result should be much better for you.

Previously you were convicted and then screwed up again rather quickly. There was bad behavior on top of bad behavior. Then there was ANOTHER screw up which resulted in a VERY long probationary period. What did the court records (disposition) indicate about how you behaved while "on probation"? Does the paper trail indicate any late payments, bench warrants, or violations? OR does the paper trail indicate proper and timely compliance?

While certain factors during the statutory period are mandatory reasons to deny, other components are subjective and involve a qualitative analysis in the exercise of discretion. They weigh the good vs. the bad and in the naturalization context, it does not take much to deny an application for discretionary reasons because it is so hard to "take it back".

INS got into trouble in the 1990s during CUSA (Citizenship USA) when it cut corners and naturalized a bunch of ineligible criminals in error. The trail end of those denaturalizations are still dragging through the ends of their appeal processes in courts around the country. Nowadays, USCIS errs on the side of caution. They would rather have a Judge take the fall for naturalizing a person of questionable GMC.

thank you! i didn't know about 1990s error

 

[Jackolantern]

i'm going to do it again next week - 3 years and 3 month after the end of probation.this time - myself,no lawyer.

Is your record completely clean since the end of probation over 3 years ago? If yes, you should have a very good chance of approval.