H1Bs a threat to Green card holders and Citizens

Re: patienceGC

Originally posted by C D
patienceGC,

calm down you need to pratice your name and be 'patient'. anyone can be replaced. just a matter of time of your company finding an H1B!
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I dont waste my patience on "things" like you! I dont care if my company finds a H1B for my job. Unlike you I can find another job. I can switch careers if I want to.

Of course there is nothing wrong in going back. I have seen people who were earning more than you ever will, go back to India of their own free will.. why?... because those people can make it anywhere!

I would really like to see you replaced by a H1B!!!
 
Re: H1B threat

"There are many ways to 'survive'. Besides working hard and being productive, you can survive by eliminating unfit H1Bs who are a threat to the American job market and the economy."

What about eliminating unfit people like you?
 
Re: Re:H1B threat

Originally posted by C D
RealCanadian,

You are living in a dream world. Who told you that the most productive employees get to keep their jobs? Productiveness
means nothing when it can get done with cheap labor from third world countries.
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The most productive individuals may not keep their jobs, but if you have the skills and attitudes to succeed, you will find another one. All is not lost.

According to your logic, no work will be done in the US in the future because anything can be done for less offshore. I don't believe it - there's an old American adage that says "You get what you pay for."

You obviously do not understand the meaning of the word productivity - it relates to the amount of work produced for the amount of money paid. I can certainly make 5x as much as a offshored worker, if I can be 5x as productive.

And I can. I have the benefit of a First World liberal (non-rote) education, Western business practices and a sound understanding of my clients that no one in Bangalore or Sofia could ever grasp. I can play on this turf and win. Can you?

No matter how hard you work and accomplish, any company can find your replacement from a third world country willing to work for a lot less just so that he can step into this country.
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If you have commodity skills, just do what you're told and no more, and don't innovate, then yes. Too bad.
 
Re: H1B threat

Originally posted by C D
you can survive by eliminating unfit H1Bs who are a threat to the American job market and the economy.
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Then how will people like YOURSELF come to the US?:D
 
job security, huh?

H1B or Not, business will find ways to get their jobs done cheaper. After all you have money invested in your company (stocks options, 401K etc.), don't you want your company to prosper?
If you stop H1B, L1, there will be more work going offshore rather than the market being more competitive here. If work goes offshore, the market will be competitive there and development will be there. You will just rot here anyways!
By stopping immigrants, you are just delaying your eventual future and that has already seeded in your mind...
Work on yourself, rather than changing the world to suit your needs.
 
H1 B threat

Looks like there some very vocal H1Bs on this forum so I will be taking this petetion elsewhere. I don't want to waste my time here.

Green Card/EAD/Citizens - Good luck and keep a look out for the petetion.

Never ignore the threat of a H1B.

Bye!
 
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Re: H1 B threat

Originally posted by C D
Looks like there some very vocal H1Bs on this forum so I will be taking this petetion elsewhere.

Green Card/EAD/Citizens - Good luck and keep a look out for the petetion.

Never ignore the threat of a H1B.

Bye!
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Can you tell us more about your background? Did you come in as an H1B?
 
A true Westerner (Canadian)

RealCanadian wrote:
And I can. I have the benefit of a First World liberal (non-rote) education, Western business practices and a sound understanding of my clients that no one in Bangalore or Sofia could ever grasp. I can play on this turf and win. Can you?

Looks like RealCanadian thinks that 'First world' education and experience and probably even people are far superior than third world immigrants.
 
Re: A true Westerner (Canadian)

Originally posted by C D
Looks like RealCanadian thinks that 'First world' education and experience and probably even people are far superior than third world immigrants.
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"probably even people"? You said it, not me. It's an interesting trick to put false, unsaid words into someone's mouth to try and foment discord. Any other lies you want to share with us?

Does anyone honestly believe that on average, a Third World post-secondary education is superior to a First World one? I know that places like ITI have a good reputation, but they are the exception, not the rule. Otherwise why are there thousands of F-1 students flocking to the US, but not the other way round?
 
Real Canadian


I can not talk about western education system - but I do feel the Amercian Education system below the graduation programs could improve a lot. I would rather have my kids( when ever I have them) educated till the graduate program in an Indian system compared to their American counter part hopefully they will learn better math and science.

You might have a point about the grad schools here but that can be arugued too. Apart from IIT's ( a recent NBC program showed how people prefer IIT than Ivy league premium US schools) - there are several institues in India in different discipline which can compete with their US counter parts. The students do come in F1 - I believe because most of them would like to eventually settle down here. Also the opportunities could be more here.
 
First world education

If First world eduction is superior than Third world education why
do we have to go to third world countries for H1Bs?
 
Re: Re: A true Westerner (Canadian)

Originally posted by TheRealCanadian
Does anyone honestly believe that on average, a Third World post-secondary education is superior to a First World one? I know that places like ITI have a good reputation, but they are the exception, not the rule. Otherwise why are there thousands of F-1 students flocking to the US, but not the other way round?
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I was not as serious as CD. ;)

But as far as education goes, I dont know about other countries but school and undergrad college education is pretty good in India. Thanks to CBS a lot of people know about IITs. But there are many other good schools. The reason people dont go to college there is because they dont have the "quality of life". Infrastructure is obviously only as good as the govt provides! There is not as much partying. But on the academic front its pretty good. Of course there are a lot of crummy colleges but there are plenty of good colleges. Its hard to compare the "facilties" but quality wise "education" is pretty comparable. But we dont have "research" like the US colleges have so thats why people come here for MS and PHDs. I know a lot if kids of Indian origin who are pursuing medical degrees in India because its cheaper and faster (4.5 yrs as compared to 8) to complete medical school. If the education wasnt comparable, you wouldnt find Indian/Chinese people making perfect GPAs in grad school.

At the management level too we have the IIMs which have been rated as one of the most difficult business schools.
 
TheRealCanadian,

I didn't expect this kind of comment from a 'First World' educated person. But it is typical First World's view of Third World citizens like us. This clearly shows that the 'First World' is not 'liberal' rather narrow minded and self-centered. Third World may not have the resources (money, infrastructure etc..) thanks to the First World...but we have already proved our capability and education....As far as the students flocking to US..once again we don't have enough resources (colleges)..and....the US degrees make the 'First World' more comfortable.....otherwise seriously the Master degree in US cannot compete with our Bachelor's degree.
 
Re: Re: Re: A true Westerner (Canadian)

Originally posted by patienceGC
But as far as education goes, I dont know about other countries but school and undergrad college education is pretty good in India.
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Well, I learn something new every day. I'll confess right now, much of my knowledge of foreign educational systems is anecdotal, and I'm being called on that right now. What you mention struck a chord, since it's similar to what I did.

A number of my peers went to prominent (and not so prominent) US universities for their undergraduate degrees. I took the opinion that a Canadian undergraduate degree would be quite similar to a US one, and the price was SUBSTANTIALLY lower. From what you say, an Indian undergrad can be quite similar. (To temporarily segue into outsourcing, if an Indian can provide a broadly similar amount and quality of work for a much lower price, it's a no brainer as well.)

I never got a graduate degree because my undergrad was in History, not a technical discipline, and I agree with the author John Irving that the grad in grad school stands for "gradual" - you keep going to school until gradually you discover that you don't want to school anymore. :)

There's one belief I have about a First World education that also may not be borne out by facts, but I'd like to throw it out for you to consider and enlighten me. A common (mis?)conception many westerners have about Asian cultures and educations is their emphasis on rote learning versus a broader, tool-based education. I don't think that's the right term, but it's essentially giving students the tools needed to create a solution to any problem they may encounter.

I'm not actually trained formally in any programming language or discipline; I learned the elements of structured programming while still in high school, and by the time I got to college I was proficient in C and x86 assembler. Learning some silly teaching language was a step backwards and I never pursued CS.

What I did learn was analytic thought, communication and requirements gathering. I learned to study business processes and anticipate client needs, which I think are more valuable in many cases than pure coding talent and proficiency. These things are significantly harder to do from 10 time zones away.

I guess what I am trying to say is that I believe that a Third World education can be significantly more "rigid", and as business require new thinking to gain a competetive advantage, this becomes more and more of an asset. Does this seem broadly accurate? Yes, I know that there are plenty of unimaginative, poorly skilled US-trained folks, and they by and large are the victims of offshoring.
 
Originally posted by RajeshJ
I didn't expect this kind of comment from a 'First World' educated person. But it is typical First World's view of Third World citizens like us. This clearly shows that the 'First World' is not 'liberal' rather narrow minded and self-centered.
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Hey, I'm human. I have pre-conceived notions, and I'm not afraid to say them. I am genuinely interested in hearing from others, and changing those pre-conceived notions if not supported by facts.
 
Real Canadian

I might agree to the 'RIGIDITY' to some extent - in my experience it is much easier to move around between different disciplines in the US universities which is not as easy in Indian universities. I know one of my seniors who did a MS in electrical Engineering in India and ended up here as a successful particle physicist - that may not be easy in India. But again - in real life i have seen people educated in third world countries show better flexibilities in work. For example a guy who is working in Oracle can take up a Sybase project and survive. The evolving in them is also higher - people in American system tend to be little sterio type( broadly speaking - I am sure there are lot of innovative Americans). For example - I have seen people here start as a COBOL programmer and retire as a COBOL programmar while someone educated in Indian system tend to move on different platforms or job responsibilities from where he initially starts working. The failure to upgrade oneself, specially when pressured under fierce competition from H1B or outsourcing may have contributed to the job loss of the American programmer.

Unlike some of the others in this forum - I am not actually hurt or anything by your remarks - it gives a different perspective entirely and I would like to share opinions. But you would agree that the careful choice of words might save unnecessary debatesand misunderstanding.
 
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